Any chance at all that sieges on timers will get changed?

The thing that initially caught my attention with Ashes of Creation was my impression that there was going to be a major focus on open world content and, particularly, open world PvP. Taking another look now, though, it seems that I was either mistaken or, somewhere along the line, the devs starting moving more and more towards a New World-esque concept of PvP, where technically you can PvP in the open world, but there's really no reward as well as no meaningful objectives as those are all locked behind scheduled events. The only thing I see that fits the bill (for me) as good, objective-based, open world PvP are caravans since they can show up at any time and anyone can just walk up and partake.

So my question is, is there any chance at all that the devs will change course on the whole sieges-as-scheduled-events thing and make them possible at any/most times? I understand the point of the schedule is to ensure even teams and all that, but to me, that's not what's exciting about open world PvP. The exciting part for me is that open world PvP is dynamic: it can happen at any time under any number of circumstances.

On top of that, with schedules, that effectively means I would never end up being able to take part in sieges because I'm not going to schedule my life around a video game. That's what happened to me in New World: despite playing regularly for PvP from launch until about a year after, I never once got into a war because I couldn't schedule my life around the game (and therefore I also wasn't of value to the people filling the war rosters). I want to be able to just hop into the game when I have time, at whatever time of whatever day of the month, and take part in whatever happens to be going on, and if sieges are scheduled affairs, I can pretty much guarantee that players like me will literally never get to take part.

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mcstackerson

joshisanonymous wrote: »

The thing that initially caught my attention with Ashes of Creation was my impression that there was going to be a major focus on open world content and, particularly, open world PvP. Taking another look now, though, it seems that I was either mistaken or, somewhere along the line, the devs starting moving more and more towards a New World-esque concept of PvP, where technically you can PvP in the open world, but there's really no reward as well as no meaningful objectives as those are all locked behind scheduled events. The only thing I see that fits the bill (for me) as good, objective-based, open world PvP are caravans since they can show up at any time and anyone can just walk up and partake.

So my question is, is there any chance at all that the devs will change course on the whole sieges-as-scheduled-events thing and make them possible at any/most times? I understand the point of the schedule is to ensure even teams and all that, but to me, that's not what's exciting about open world PvP. The exciting part for me is that open world PvP is dynamic: it can happen at any time under any number of circumstances.

On top of that, with schedules, that effectively means I would never end up being able to take part in sieges because I'm not going to schedule my life around a video game. That's what happened to me in New World: despite playing regularly for PvP from launch until about a year after, I never once got into a war because I couldn't schedule my life around the game (and therefore I also wasn't of value to the people filling the war rosters). I want to be able to just hop into the game when I have time, at whatever time of whatever day of the month, and take part in whatever happens to be going on, and if sieges are scheduled affairs, I can pretty much guarantee that players like me will literally never get to take part.

It is hard to say since we don't have the game yet but in addition to caravans, there should be high-value areas in the world to find fights. Killing someone gives you some of their resources, so in those areas, you will probably find more competitive players who are more willing to fight.

The sea is also a pvp zone now so you might be able to jump on a boat and find fights while raiding caravans.

Raven016

joshisanonymous wrote: »

So my question is, is there any chance at all that the devs will change course on the whole sieges-as-scheduled-events thing and make them possible at any/most times?

Yes, if this game ends up having as many players as MO2.

Leiloni

I agree with most of the replies here but I do think there's an important discussion to be had regarding the problem New World has. That game has a mini and exclusive sieging community that controls all sieges in the game. You can't participate in one unless you're in one of those guilds. Despite changes New World made to how often one account can participate to try to open it up to other players in the game, they've managed to get around that anyway.

I think it's a valid concern to talk about here as well. How do we ensure that other players who want to compete can do so? There will always be strong guilds but making sure they can't have their elite group be the only ones at every attack and defense. I see a few things in Ashes that might help with this.

For one in New World the attack/defense lists are chosen to some extent by the attacking/defending guilds so they choose their buddies. Here from what I understand that will be opened up a bit more, at least for node siege defenses. Plus this game will have a ton more nodes thus more potential sieges than the handful of towns you can siege in New World. Also I'd say the amount of effort involved to a)progress one character to the point that they're siege ready, and b)declare a node siege to begin with, will also limit some of the issues New World has.

Maybe there are other things that can open up this aspect to more players?

Ludullu

Leiloni wrote: »

Maybe there are other things that can open up this aspect to more players?

I'd say it's already as open to the players as it can be. Castles are for guilds and their small circles of friends, while nodes are for everyone else.

Dygz

Veeshan wrote: »

why not? the sea's have been lawless longer in time than they have been lawful. the ocean being safe to a degree has only realy happened in the last century or so and before that was pretty much lawless. The seas being lawless open world pvp all the time makes more sense than them not when in context of time period, not easy to police a vast ocean when all you have is sail boats and telescopes :P

I don't understand how this was intended to pertain to my question.

Taleof2Cities

Leiloni wrote: »

Maybe there are other things that can open up this aspect to more players?

Absolutely … I mentioned it in my post above.

Find the Ashes server with the prime time schedule that works best for you.

That server could be halfway across the globe.

You will suffer a little with a slightly higher ping rate.

But, you will still get to participate in your favorite Ashes content (without changing a core game mechanic).

joshisanonymous

I mentioned another problem with scheduled sieges beyond just being able to (or wanting to) schedule your play time around them: they're also far less dynamic than sieges that can happen at any time. The schedule effectively turns the event into a WoW-like battleground situation rather than a dynamic open world event where anything can happen. To me, battlegrounds are boring. If I wanted to play a battleground, I'd play something other than an MMO.

Also, most of you are assuming that only one allied group of players will play at 3am if sieges aren't scheduled, but I see no reason why an opposing group that often plays at those hours wouldn't develop also. Again, you can see this in other games as far back as DAoC. Even if some Aussie group decided to play on an NA server assuming that they could more easily control the map, why wouldn't there also be a second Aussie group that does the same thing and opposes them? Hell, there could even be official mechanisms in place that entice players from specific regions to join servers where they might offset an imbalance like this if it does occur.

Again, I get the concern with late night sieges, but there are many, many ways that can be addressed other than the rather blunt solution of schedules since schedules bring their own issues to the table.

Dygz

The intended dynamics from Sieges have nothing to do with open-ended time.
Sieges that happen at any time is probably some other game.

What makes Ashes Sieges different from a WoW battlegrounds is that Castles can be occupied for a month and Towns/Cities/Metro can be destroyed to make room for new ones.
WoW battlegrounds are boring because there are no significant consequences.

Taleof2Cities

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I mentioned another problem with scheduled sieges beyond just being able to (or wanting to) schedule your play time around them: they're also far less dynamic than sieges that can happen at any time.

Except sieges are big-time events … that happen at a minimum of a few times per month (could be longer if the node has been stable for awhile).

Which means it needs to be scheduled.

You want to water down the content by calling it “less dynamic”, increasing the frequency, and making in not instanced. There’s other Ashes content you can play that’s better suited for that criteria.

Players haven’t participated in a full siege test yet … so we can’t form an opinion on how “dynamic” it is.

Fiddlez

joshisanonymous wrote: »

The thing that initially caught my attention with Ashes of Creation was my impression that there was going to be a major focus on open world content and, particularly, open world PvP. Taking another look now, though, it seems that I was either mistaken or, somewhere along the line, the devs starting moving more and more towards a New World-esque concept of PvP, where technically you can PvP in the open world, but there's really no reward as well as no meaningful objectives as those are all locked behind scheduled events. The only thing I see that fits the bill (for me) as good, objective-based, open world PvP are caravans since they can show up at any time and anyone can just walk up and partake.

So my question is, is there any chance at all that the devs will change course on the whole sieges-as-scheduled-events thing and make them possible at any/most times? I understand the point of the schedule is to ensure even teams and all that, but to me, that's not what's exciting about open world PvP. The exciting part for me is that open world PvP is dynamic: it can happen at any time under any number of circumstances.

On top of that, with schedules, that effectively means I would never end up being able to take part in sieges because I'm not going to schedule my life around a video game. That's what happened to me in New World: despite playing regularly for PvP from launch until about a year after, I never once got into a war because I couldn't schedule my life around the game (and therefore I also wasn't of value to the people filling the war rosters). I want to be able to just hop into the game when I have time, at whatever time of whatever day of the month, and take part in whatever happens to be going on, and if sieges are scheduled affairs, I can pretty much guarantee that players like me will literally never get to take part.

I think you are missing a few things.

As far as PvP goes there is Open World, Caravans(Player run and Siege events) Node Sieges, Castle Sieges, Guild Wars, Arenas, Military Node Battle Royal, Open Sea, Bounty Hunting, Monster Coin.

I genuinely KNOW they are not going the route of New World at all. The Open World PVP in AoC will play much differant and yes, you not only wont be rewarded but heavily penalized unless the other player consents essentially. The Open World PVP is there for the random PVP and to add Risk or Danger in exploration, its not meant to be consistent PVP Content. As you can see though there are plenty of options if you want to PVP, join a PVP guild and start a fight is my plan, there will be rewards for this. Mix that with Caravan, Random OW PVP and hell between the Node and Castle Sieges theres a chance you can get in on those.

Nikr isnt wrong either though. When it comes to Castle Sieges its a set limit of players so it will be harder to get in. Thats enough players to warrant a few stragglers though, if it gets that high. However I think the idea that they are BIG events and are maybe once a month it might be easier to schedule here and there. If they reach 250vs250 and a guild cap of 300 I am going to assume multiple guilds(alliance) will be involved. So just make sure you are a part of one of them.

The Sieges are big events and are by far the main PVP content its more like the cherry on top, a really awesome cherry that has cocaine but still a cherry. The Main course will be up to you.

Kilion

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Taking another look now, though, it seems that I was either mistaken or, somewhere along the line, the devs starting moving more and more towards a New World-esque concept of PvP, where technically you can PvP in the open world, but there's really no reward as well as no meaningful objectives as those are all locked behind scheduled events.

The two possibilities you have given here are by no means the only ones in the picture. The game design imo points into the direction of meaningful PvP events at all time as it did from the beginning.

The thing however is: Meaningful PvP is not created only by throwing a crapload of resources on the table, that on its own is just inflationary, but especially by mobility. If a city siege would be successful and people could easily relocate in a day, the siege would become meaningless. The loot from a dungeon in PvE would be less meaningful, if I could teleport there from anywhere, even from other continents (looking at you, World of Warcraft). So because one does not simply jump into any content anywhere the content that one partakes in becomes more meaningful and ones own impact - because you are there! - becomes more meaningful.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

The only thing I see that fits the bill (for me) as good, objective-based, open world PvP are caravans since they can show up at any time and anyone can just walk up and partake.

From what we know so far, it is indeed the highest frequence PvP objective, followed by dungeons and gathering grounds for rare resources.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

So my question is, is there any chance at all that the devs will change course on the whole sieges-as-scheduled-events thing and make them possible at any/most times?

Very unlikely, if the frequency of possible destruction is so high that any attempt of rebuilding can immediately be disrupted by bloodthirsty PvP players, then the incentive to even build up anything would go to waste.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I understand the point of the schedule is to ensure even teams and all that, but to me, that's not what's exciting about open world PvP. The exciting part for me is that open world PvP is dynamic: it can happen at any time under any number of circumstances.

On top of that, with schedules, that effectively means I would never end up being able to take part in sieges because I'm not going to schedule my life around a video game. That's what happened to me in New World: despite playing regularly for PvP from launch until about a year after, I never once got into a war because I couldn't schedule my life around the game (and therefore I also wasn't of value to the people filling the war rosters). I want to be able to just hop into the game when I have time, at whatever time of whatever day of the month, and take part in whatever happens to be going on, and if sieges are scheduled affairs, I can pretty much guarantee that players like me will literally never get to take part.

Again: If full destruction is possible without any chance of preparing there is no point in building up anything that could become a PvP objective.

"I'm not going to play structure my life around a video game" = And no video game dev who wants people feeling their gameplay is meaningful will try to please primarily casuals. If leaving one day/evening each week or month is unacceptable to you, then you are better off playing Rust or some other casual PvP game.

You could look up the times of castle sieges, there are 5 of them and every months one can lay siege to them, as far as I am aware with greatly reduced resource costs compared to sieging a Node. You could build a social network with a guild of casual PvP players who keep each other up to date about PvP server events.

But if all you want is a casual, no commitment PvP experience then the only option for you is indeed games like Rust. Why? Because PvP in its nature is solely destructive at worst or redistributing previously created values at best. Meaningful PvE values, like the Nodes, rare resources or crafted rare gear, become meaningful because people invest time and effort into them, failing at building them. If we would speed up the "building" aspect of PvE to increase the frequency at which PvPlers can try to take or destroy, the meaning is lost. Fast & easy does not mix with "meaningful" - which is why I have pointed you to Rust, CoD and so on - unscheduled, fast and high impact PvP gameloop. If you want a fantasy setting with it, maybe something like Crowfall where its about sieges all day everyday is more to your liking (Crowfall might be your best option actually).

TL;DR: Get rid of the contradiction in your expectation. Read up on the PvP options in the Wiki to adjust them and/or find a game that actually offers what you desire.

Veeshan

tbh node sieges should be any time slot attackers should choose since node defenders get advanatage of the city itself.
Castle seiges i think can go either way time slot (could have 2 times slots i guess one earlier morning and 1 prime time) or anytime this would allow those people who always work during prime time or something to be able to occasional participate

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