Dev Discussion #41 - RNG

Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.

Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!

Dev Discussion - RNG
Which systems do you feel utilize RNG the best? Where do you feel RNG does not belong? What RNG-based systems or features have you enjoyed the most?

Keep an eye out for our next Dev Discussion topic regarding Time Dedication!

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Comments

vinylz

I totally against rng when it comes to pvp. You can add rng for loot and professions whatever. But do not put rng in combat. The maximum amount of rng that can be added is crit chance, but nothing more pls.

Mag7spy

Crit chance, evasion, block, special effects can all be rng. But should be limited in a form from player level to player level. There needs to be a cap so not every move is being evaded or block or crit, etc. With having mobility skills that should help the player avoid certain attacks as well with your own skill.

RnG is needed in mmorpgs, when you have a mmo where everyone hits for 100 no miss no block, etc it gets boring and stale. Part of the fun is making your own build and giving more reason to the items you find. Else you will get a stale game where everything feels the same.

Dragher

In my opinion, you can add RNG to every point of aquiring and enchanting your gear, but there needs to be a more expensive, safe option for everyone who is not a gambling addict.
In combat as previously said, Damage yes cc no.

Braxe05

RNG Reward Board suggestion:
-Players need to know when to get reward so there's something to look forward to. It's like waiting for the bus to come. You know it's coming but the time when you're waiting for it is not fun and not knowing when is coming is daunting. It's better to know when the bus/reward is coming!
-dunno if you want to implement this RNG Reward Board as a daily login reward or if it's possible to make it after a boss kill. Basically it's a board of rewards (can be snakes and ladder style or monopoly style or another style that shows you all the rewards on the board) and when you click 'roll' or loot the boss it'll show you your RNG order of rewards you will get. The board can be very big with more rewards or very small with fewer rewards. The board can have something that's cool like a "Phoenix pet", minor rewards and medium rewards. If you have good RNG then your roll order may bring the Phoenix pet closer to the front of the line of the next reward or to the back of the line of rewards.
-The point of this reward system is that you know the order of your reward items from the RNG. Secondly, you will get ALL the rewards, it's just a matter of TIME. It may take 1, 2, or 3 weeks to get the best items on the board, but the Player knows when they'll get it and they will have something to look forward to.
-RNG is implemented and the devs gets the player to stay in the game to keep playing. People with good RNG can enjoy their pet earlier than others, people with bad RNG will get their pet later. But the point I want to focus on is that all the players will GET THE SAME REWARDS eventually. This tremendously decrease the amount of stress on the player instead of praying to the RNG god. This will encourage other players to help each other to finish their board.

A lot of MMORPGs in the past end up being what you can kill in the game to move you forward to the next tier. Game tends to focus on what you need to do and it becomes more of a grind to get the reward you want. Problem with player experience in MMORPG is that repetition gets boring. Gamers hate wasting time especially doing something that is not rewarding. Farming the same boss over and over, but not getting the loot you want sucks. We all know it's because the game company wants to keep you in game and entertained until they come out with next content/dungeon/event.

So why can't gamers do what they WANT in the game and still get the same rewards as others? Instead of the game directing players what they NEED to accomplish to move on to the next step. Gamers just want to have fun. If they feel they need to do their dailies everyday, it becomes more of a chore than them wanting to do it. With how dynamic Ashes of Creation is with their environment and node system, it should also have a dynamic quest chain.

Dynamic Chain Quest line suggestion:
-players pick what they want to do in game with the lists of side quests already available in the game. Chaining side quests together once completed can give you the same rewards as the main storyline quest OR this system can be implemented by giving the player an item currency that can be used to spend on a npc vendor that will give you mob drop items.

For example, you open your map and click on an area and it'll show you a list of exploration/gathering/hunting/transporting quests.

Quest A - Player decides they want to do some gathering today at Location A. So under gathering at Location A there are a list of gathering quests you can pick from. Option to give player a small reward here.

Quest B - Next, Player decides to do a transporting quest in Location B. Click on Location B, click on transporting quests, pick which one they want to do. Option to give player a small reward here.

Quest C - Finally, Player will do some exploration quests in Location C. Click on Location C, click on exploration quests, pick which exploration quests they want to do. Player will receive their final reward of item currency here.

Rewards - can be either be item currency after each quest line or after completing the entire quest Chain of Quest A, B and C.

The item currency can be exchange at a vendor where:
-you can get the same reward as doing the storyline quest
-you can get drop loot from a boss after collecting 100 item currency for example or how ever much the amount the devs feel it's worth compared to just farming a dungeon boss

If this system is in place, devs can make a RNG button where the game picks the Chain quest line (A, B, C) for the Player to do. Long quest chain lines for different seasons can also be implemented. The reward item currency is the same at the end with the use of this RNG chain quest, but the experience will be random each time. This will help players have a fresh experience, whether they pick their own quests to do or do the RNG chain quest. If Player were to make an alternate character they can choose not to go through the same storyline again, but choose this chain quest line to play and explore and do what they want AND get the same rewards/results. Player can do something different on their main character and explore the changing world, but don't feel left behind in progression and burn out playing too much to keep up and end up hating the game. If the game is grindy, players need a break from it, but still want to do other things in the game and progress in a different way.

The way Ashes of Creation emphasizes on change in their environment, in their seasons, and in their gameplay should also be reflected in their rewards and quest lines. It should always be changing!

Louwerse

Just to add my opinion to a statement: ''CRAFTED GEAR IS THE SHIT''

IDEA:
RNG in case of proficiency level is fun, lets say the first time you make a piece of equipment.
+2 too stats = beginners luck?
Or oopsie ''offspec'' negative effect, super various, different rare occurrence to coloring or pattern or sizing, (too small/big) only being able to obtained the first time the item is crafted by a player.

+1 if mastered?
+2 if crafted over X amount of times?

Gathering/Crafting:
Positive RNG is great, like +1 is cool.
RNG + 1/5 is too much for me.
RNG ''Fizzle''/''nothing'' procs destroy my interest in crafting or gathering completely.

Solvryn

Can't believe I actually missed this conversation last year, must have been my sabbatical from the forums.

Where RNG is good

Skins, fluff etc.

Where RNG needs extremely hard limits
Combat, combat should be 99% in the hands of the player, never the character. Especially in PvP.

Crits fine, as long as it has strict parameters, the same with procs, but passive defensives have no business in a mmorpg with a high PVP emphasis. Probability is for drop rates and crafting, keep that shit out of PvP.

Lodrig

Solvryn wrote: »

Where RNG needs extremely hard limits
Combat, combat should be 99% in the hands of the player, never the character. Especially in PvP.

Crits fine, as long as it has strict parameters, the same with procs, but passive defensives have no business in a mmorpg with a high PVP emphasis. Probability is for drop rates and crafting, keep that shit out of PvP.

I'll reiterate what I said in the other thread, there MUST be a miss chance for ranged basic attacks that takes distance into account to provide appropriate counter-play to someone experiencing ranged attacks. Conversely ranged attackers can try to boost their chance to hit with attributes, gear etc. To make all ranged attacks perfect hits will lead to ruinous kiting. This is not LoL or an e-sports game, it's an RPG and such games have used a range increment for archery from the earliest days of pen-and-paper for good reason.

Solvryn

Lodrig wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Where RNG needs extremely hard limits
Combat, combat should be 99% in the hands of the player, never the character. Especially in PvP.

Crits fine, as long as it has strict parameters, the same with procs, but passive defensives have no business in a mmorpg with a high PVP emphasis. Probability is for drop rates and crafting, keep that shit out of PvP.

I'll reiterate what I said in the other thread, there MUST be a miss chance for ranged basic attacks that takes distance into account to provide appropriate counter-play to someone experiencing ranged attacks. Conversely ranged attackers can try to boost their chance to hit with attributes, gear etc. To make all ranged attacks perfect hits will lead to ruinous kiting. This is not LoL or an e-sports game, it's an RPG and such games have used a range increment for archery from the earliest days of pen-and-paper for good reason.

Pretty sure they’re modeling the combat off of GW2 for the majority of it.

I don’t remember missing much in GW2.

If only they’d just require attacks to be aimed.

RazThemun

I think worthy rewards should come from skill and not RNG. If it is just something cosmetic as a reward it is whatever.... but if those items come with better stats, bonuses, etc. I would prefer it not be up to RNG. "Hey guys look at this sweet sword! I came in last minute and tagged a boss and then looted it... it was a .5% drop" CLAP CLAP CLAP.... Not really a good system.
If there is RNG, it would be nice if your chances or odds slowly increased over time to accomplish said thing or loot said item. The more attempts the higher the chances.... resulting in it being WORTH a persons time to even attempt in the first place over and over. Example is invincible in wow. My brother has played WOW since TBC and has still not received that mount... Talk about a waste of countless hours spamming the same content for a chance at a mount.... that someone else got their first time ever attempting.

Lodrig

Solvryn wrote: »

Pretty sure they’re modeling the combat off of GW2 for the majority of it.

I don’t remember missing much in GW2.

If only they’d just require attacks to be aimed.

As in aimed like bows in DarkFall were? That would of course produce via the process of player aiming and dodging the very kind of miss chances at range that I'm looking for. So then why the opposition, ranged miss chances essentially simulate the effects of aiming and provide a combat that is as close to it as possible under tab-targeting. If it's just an obsession with 'skillz' then I'd say your shortsightedly distorting combat away from the closest simulation, it could be and in fact removing the players ability to use skill in the one thing they CAN control directly which is distance.

Solvryn

Lodrig wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

Pretty sure they’re modeling the combat off of GW2 for the majority of it.

I don’t remember missing much in GW2.

If only they’d just require attacks to be aimed.

As in aimed like bows in DarkFall were? That would of course produce via the process of player aiming and dodging the very kind of miss chances at range that I'm looking for. So then why the opposition, ranged miss chances essentially simulate the effects of aiming and provide a combat that is as close to it as possible under tab-targeting. If it's just an obsession with 'skillz' then I'd say your shortsightedly distorting combat away from the closest simulation, it could be and in fact removing the players ability to use skill in the one thing they CAN control directly which is distance.

They’re leaning heavily into GW2, there’s not much in terms of misses in GW2 combat. The most well get is abilities that make us immune to damage.

I’d prefer they lean more heavily into their free aiming like we saw in the BR, but the community doesn’t like high ceiling gameplay.

Inddra

Monsters (especially bosses) shouldn’t drop armor or full items, not even recipes. They should drop pieces, shards, or materials! Wanna make recipe more fun? put them in quests or chests around the map so people get to explore the world.

PherPhur

I have some opinions on RNG in many aspects of the game, but not strong opinions, so I'm not going to talk about most of them.

Ashes of Creation takes from many other RPGs, takes great parts of their systems and adds it's own flavor on it usually.

Path of Exile is quite successful because it's a fun game, but the most alluring system in the game, the system that keeps player playing and playing and coming back again and again, the system most touched by the developers, the system that carries most of the games fame, is their crafting. Surely one of the best crafting systems in any RPG.

I strongly suggest taking notes from PoE in regards to how you want to work with modifiers on gear in relation to enchanting. Either way, if it doesn't heavily utilize RNG regarding gear modifiers then you might as well put in some bland shallow system for it because a few months after launch every variation of every piece of gear will have flooded the world, supply massively outweighing demand, making crafting unsatisfying anyways.

With a heavily RNG'ified enchanting system that messes with modifiers you also encourage people to actually go to enchanters and request personalized gear. Which hardly ever happens when the auction houses get flooded.

Making modifiers from enchanting RNG will make low level gear more relevant, It'll add an actually unique and intensive social aspect to enchanting, It'll make enchanting more fun for a lot of people, it'll make gear more important, but most importantly it'll make people change their builds depending on what rolls they got lucky to get on some gear. Oh, it also adds wayyyy more replayability to the game.

It's very risk vs. reward and the pros are too numerous to count. I'm very tired right now but I could probably have wrote a book on it lol.

Raven016

I like RNG when gathering.
But I hate it when crafting.
And I like critical hits

But might be too late now for feedback.
This is an old thread and Vaknar is probably not following this thread anymore.

Dygz

Everything is subject to change.

oOKingOo

Crafting:
I dont like RnG in crafting if its done wrong. I'm ok with destructable items if i can repair them. I'm not a fan of upgading a item then loose the item. Thats just not fun. If i upgrade things and they can break so i have to repair them and try again im fine with it but only on lower lvl crafters. For example theres no way a master blacksmith would fuck up a sword while trying to make it better. When were talking about magically infuse an item thats something else because you can argue the magic was too strong for the weapon or something.

What i specifically hate about rng in gear is when they have these stats for example +5 strengh +5 dex and then you can rerole them to get better stats like +10strengh +10dex. That alone is fine but first of you should be able to lock certain stats so that you keep strengh and just role on the number basically. Also i dont like when u can loose stats that way. It just feels super weird when you have a almost perfect item that got almost compleatly maxed out stats that you want and then you have to rerole 100 times more because you get lower stats higher stats lower stats higher stats but never maxed stats. I like it more if it is more natural like for example 5 stages you can up the stats and every stage costs more rare materials. So for exmple the last stage you need 3 different materials. One drops from a dungeonboss that only appears at the metropolis lvl stage. One you have to win in a pvp tournament and one you have to gather but its super rare. Mabe only in one season under a specific sign or something like that. These mats should all be tradeable i think but its debatable. But if you have these mats and you put them in then your item will 100% get max stats. That would be cooler then rng rerolls in my opinion.

I'm not a huge crafter so not sure if its a good idea but maybe it would be cool if you can get minor effects on your weapon/gear depending on what materials you use.
Example: U use some elvenish steel the weapon has a 5% chance to give a little extra crit dmg or crit chance. Meaning not every hit has this chane but when u craft 100 weapons 5 of thos have an effect that gives you like 5% more crit dmg or 10% crit chance.
Or you use a dwarvenish steel and you have a 5% chance that you get a little bit extra physical damage.
Or you use some crazy magic ore and have a 5% chance to get either a small amount of fire/frost/lighning dmg.

Gathering:
I like the rng aspect from you not knowing what you will get all the time. Dont rly got strong opinions on gathering.

Fighting: Fighting need rng obviously. Not every class maybe but crit is definitly a fun systhem and it needs to be there. More creative ways based on class can be fine too but it has to fit. A trickster would have Rng mechanics (like he gets a random buff atuff like that) a fighter wouldnt use any rng other then crits.
For blocking i like active blocks. For a tank having an rng if he wears a shielf where he can just randomly block an attack completely would be fine too tho i think. But for skill expression active block is better i think.

Bleeds can be rng no Problem, so do fire attacks setting targets on flame.

For some classes it could be cool having a spammable or a dot that susally does low dmg but has a small chance to do big burst dmg.

For loot Rng is good. But a boss should drop like at least epic loot or something. Legendarys should be rare and recognizable. For example every boss has a full set of legendarys (full armor+all weapons in a specific theme with fitting effects too)
and each of them has like a 0.1 chance to drop of that boss.

Also it would be cool if there was legendary pvp weapons i mean for example every 3 months theres a server wide pvp tournament and the winner can choose a legendary weapon and these weapons just have like the highest base stats in the game or some effect thats especially good for pvp. Boss legendarys would have set effects tho so it would still be balanced. It would be cool if you have some legenedarys where you just know the guy is good in pvp when he has it.

Freemeta

From in game content discussion some class RNG mechanics i like:
RNG
i listed some classes (and link to class abilities description) based around RNG mechanic i like.
RNG is good to keeps us engaged with the game and not feeling bored doing same rotation ad vitam eternam.
We need to have pity timer(RNG manipulation) incorporated into class abilities: could be attack combo stacking Pity Timer increment etc.

Ruerik

RNG can have a time and place.

It can lead to some truly unique and interesting builds.
One of my favorite game builds was back in age of conan sometime around 2010 when they changed gearing, some pieces of gear had a chance to proc extra damage when you attacked, and an assassin build had a chance to land an offhand doublestrike on critical hits (which scaled with dex and crit, based off measurements with a dps parser). Turns out those damage procs could also crit, and trigger the offhand strike.

So, if you balanced the crit chance and dex stats just right, you could very reliably get the procs to also proc extra hits (which could in turn cause the armor proc to make more damage happen again... and so on, it dindt go forever, because how diminishing chance works with rng, but god was that fun to see the really big damage happen sometimes)

It took filling out your stats down a different path than normal, but you could very reliably use the rng part of the build to pull off some really crazy damage. Everything averaged out over a couple minutes to be big.

However, but, comma and, pause.
Don't build these things so much into every system that sometimes you pass, sometimes you fail.

I hate missing attacks, accuracy type stats can have a place in the game, so long as I can stack enough accuracy to always hit against a target with normal evasion.

I hate RNG chance on crowd control, but i DO like resist chance, its just, make the CC resist turn the stun or slow or root or whatever into a 0.25s effect instead of full duration. That way players can still land their stun to interrupt a heal or cast or something to INTERFERE with the enemy, even when the CC is resisted. Otherwise, what is the point of developing skill as a player to counter enemy play, if the rng stat negates that completly. I can just stack stats to win instead.

Enigmatic Sage

Going to keep it somewhat simple. Had some in-depth discussions about this in the past.

enchants = guarantee over low RNG chance
- would rather see enchants directly affect something over a slot machine RNG for random burst damage
- leaves better options and customisations for builds with augments instead of everyone just getting what is the single best enchant.

Offensive
chance to crit and effective output
- this is fine with RNG as long as the output is relatively reasonable.
- combat shouldn't be slot machine dependant. Skill needs to play a prominent role over RNG

Defensives
- not really a fan in automatic dependencies for defensives. want to dodge? try moving or use an ability
- need to block? use your shield to mitigate damage or ability
- armour/defense plays a major role in damage mitigation as well
- skill over passive RNG for this.

Crowd Control
I'm on the fence with this currently. There's a lot that can be done with this system considering how ashes has a ramp up and execute system for this from what I remember. Hard CC and Soft CC can directly affect gameplay significantly different especially on larger scale combat goals. But with how synergy is described maybe diminishing returns would be better suited for hard CC where it eventually would become soft CC.
Instead of being frozen, it would fall off to a slow and continue until a lesser slow with small chance to trigger a hard CC with diminishing return status active?

Crafting/Gathering
A little RNG doesn't hurt for gathering. Chance to find something unique or more quantity
I like the risk vs reward in place for wanting to create a more powerful weapon at the risk of it completely breaking. Soft caps and risk factors add a unique spectrum to the balance of gear etc. There's the ideal goal to safely acquire, then there's the gamble that would minimally increase the item at some point.

Burst
this generally needs to be a practical threshold and not something that makes a class/archetype viable for 1 minute and useless for 2 more until your cd's are ready again. Fluidity is important. Relying on RNG for procs during an ability window just doesn't feel fun.

Solvryn

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Going to keep it somewhat simple. Had some in-depth discussions about this in the past.

enchants = guarantee over low RNG chance
- would rather see enchants directly affect something over a slot machine RNG for random burst damage
- leaves better options and customisations for builds with augments instead of everyone just getting what is the single best enchant.

Offensive
chance to crit and effective output
- this is fine with RNG as long as the output is relatively reasonable.
- combat shouldn't be slot machine dependant. Skill needs to play a prominent role over RNG

Defensives
- not really a fan in automatic dependencies for defensives. want to dodge? try moving or use an ability
- need to block? use your shield to mitigate damage or ability
- armour/defense plays a major role in damage mitigation as well
- skill over passive RNG for this.

Crowd Control
I'm on the fence with this currently. There's a lot that can be done with this system considering how ashes has a ramp up and execute system for this from what I remember. Hard CC and Soft CC can directly affect gameplay significantly different especially on larger scale combat goals. But with how synergy is described maybe diminishing returns would be better suited for hard CC where it eventually would become soft CC.
Instead of being frozen, it would fall off to a slow and continue until a lesser slow with small chance to trigger a hard CC with diminishing return status active?

Crafting/Gathering
A little RNG doesn't hurt for gathering. Chance to find something unique or more quantity
I like the risk vs reward in place for wanting to create a more powerful weapon at the risk of it completely breaking. Soft caps and risk factors add a unique spectrum to the balance of gear etc. There's the ideal goal to safely acquire, then there's the gamble that would minimally increase the item at some point.

Burst
this generally needs to be a practical threshold and not something that makes a class/archetype viable for 1 minute and useless for 2 more until your cd's are ready again. Fluidity is important. Relying on RNG for procs during an ability window just doesn't feel fun.

This guy has it right.

RNG is fine when it's controlled and within an appropriate window like crit.

It has no business being in defensives.

murdergroupie

I'm late to this party, but it's an important topic and I've enjoyed thumbing through the thread. Might as well post.

George_Black wrote: »

(snip...)
Does NOT belong:
1) Combat. (...snip...)

(1) I agree. RnG has no place in combat. (apologies to George_Black for so reducing his post)

Block, Dodge, Parry, etc : given the current sophistication of CPUs, GPUs and broadband internet, and with the beautiful graphics and responsive gameplay (UnrealE 5 no less), if you can't be bothered to see it coming and hit the appropriate key, then you should get hit.

CC : the Rock-Paper-Scissors paradigm is its own way of thinking, I think RnG would only detract from it. On the other hand, not having RnG will necessitate some forms of "break free" or "cleanse" or short spans of immunity for the "over-CC'd". Rest assured the demand for counters will be high. I'm sure the Devs will sort it out once metrics start rolling in.

DoT's, debuffs, etc : also part of the RockPaperScissors combat, counter-play should be left to the discretion of the players, not the game engine.

(2) In any other aspect of the game, I would say use RnG only when, and to the extent that, doing so makes the game desirable and enjoyable to play. I leave it to the Devs.

consultant

Dygz wrote: »

Everything is subject to change.

Been reading posts in general for long time now. And this statement is a catch all. It could be response to just any state. You could literaly put that statement after every post and it would work. This statement is true even about things that have already been decided. For example Fast Travel. Is Fast Travel subject to change yes. Is Ashes of creation going to put in game probably not. But it is subject to change. Cause it is a video game and any aspect of it can be change. So.......

In some forums is more of troll. A player comes out with intelligent post stateing reasons making very good case for his aurgument and it all gets dismissed by one sentence. Well everything is subject to change.

I do have some ideas about RNG but think most of it has already been posted. in this thread and I have also with a lot of other playes posted about this issue So right now just want to repost the most important element.

Best use of RNG (Random Number Genator) is Making that sometimes something special or not so special event happens. Like mobs sometimes mob attacks have special effect. Poison bleeding effects, fear, and so. One time I was in a cave full fo spiders and was constantly getting rooted with webs. At first is was fine but after wards just became annoying. Same thing goes for procs as far as abilities go.

In short Rng should be used in a way so that players do not kinow what is going and happen and to keep game feeling alive and fresh. There was a self heal abiltiy an my hunter it was a Small Heal over time from pet that was more for Role Playing Purposes, Well sometimes the ticks would crit. It was like a 2 percent heal if I remember correctly. So a crit would not mean much but still pleasant surprise. However it happemed all the time like 50 percent of the time would lose some it novelty. Very similar to rare drops.

The way I would likeRNG to work is in Particle effects. Very similar to Crit. But sometimes when mage is casting a spell the spell overloads with magical energy and a more powerful version fo the spell is cast. What percent would that be. Well first you would have to determine how often do you want the proc to be. How rare of a proc it is. Ounce and hour or ounce every half hour or ounce every five minutes and just plug in the percentage that fits your desired out com. A powerful proc should proc less ofent and there are also procs (diferent versions of spell as far as particle effects go to denote more power) that would be more for role playing porpose. Like sometimes when a deathknight kills some one they get empowered by gathereing life essence.

Let s talk a little bit about that. How should that, in my opinion be put into the game, There should be a base percent chance for that to happen. But if it happens to often the it becomes redundant. Kind of watching a movie over and over again. Some movies you can watch over and over, but you know what I mean. So you have base percentage but there are certain situations in which it has a higher chance to proc. Like in the case of a deathknight killing a Paladon or someone from that faction increases the chances of getting a self heal after killing an Agent of the light. Ounce again I am cheating I am picking a class that has a lot of lore and every one knows that Paladins and Death Knights are Rivals.

Another thing is over kill if some one is down to 1 percent health then really does not matter how much damage you do. You next attack is going to kill him. So lets say you hit this guy with huge fireball. Yep that guys is dead. So the death effect be for him to blow up into smithereens. It would not happen every time just some times. This might make mages wast huge fireball cool down, but could be done with small fire ball. This is not RNG per say just special effects at random when apropriate.

World bosses. What happens if there world Boss and a very very good group comes along and the health bar is going really quickly. Something that could be noticed by an in game system. So when that happens in order to offset over powered group the Raid Boss has a CHANCE to heal himself or summon henchmen. In this case it could have a high chance of happeneing or happen every time which would not be rng.

For veteran and highly skilled guilds there could be a game mode that sometimes mobs put a hurting on on them. Just recently posted on another thread about how Lord of the Rings has a difficut setting setting for open world could also be applied to open world dungeouns.

So how could you do this in an open world setting. Well if there is a guild party of lets say 16 and they could decide to play in the advanced dungeoneering mode. Were the boss does more dmg and has more of a chance to ge targeted with cc and other raid mechanics. Now if there other players involved they will not take same dmg as the 16 man guild group and there would be a lot less chance (rng) of them getting cced or being a target of some single target raid mechanic. Of course there would have to more reward(insert Lord of the Rings game mechincs here) for people that chose a more difficult setting. Now with out RNG lets say Mobs are garanteed to cc you and gauranteed to have additional cc after a while it just become redundant and repetative.

Point is Players will know that mobs are going to be tougher but will not acttually know what it is going to happen or when, so they have to wait to see what is going to happen to react to it. So no more autopiloting and is kind of anti-bot.

This is a little bit of a repost already posted on this topic on other threads sorry about that. But this is a topic that is really important to me, and think this could have a very positive impact on the game. I think something like this would be a huge benefit to the game. Purpose is not to make it leathal and kill the party just to make it interesting, although is it good for players to die ,ounce in while, to affirm that the world is Dangerous. So through RNG you would make the wourld sometimes dangerous so that way playerswould have pay attention cause no one likes to be killled by mobs in the openworld or in dungeouns for that matter. Really hurts their EGO.

In another thread was talking about making intersting vs making difficult. Wow this post got really long very quickly. Good Day To you!!! Pretty sure this game is going to great!!!

Aszkalon

Vaknar wrote: »

Dev Discussion - RNG

Which systems do you feel utilize RNG the best? Where do you feel RNG does not belong? What RNG-based systems or features have you enjoyed the most?

I agree with Everyone who wants to keep the Gameplay in Combat fresh and varying -> meaning the Random Number Generator should affect possible Crit-Chances when hitting your Opponents with your Abilities and/or Spells.

The worst Examples of " RNG " i experienced over many Years as an MMO Player since 2005,

is the Dropchances regarding certain Mounts, or Items.

Some People do a certain Questline, or Raid-Instance about ONE Time or maybe a few, several Times, that You can count their Runs on one Hand.

What do they get ? Their desired Mounts and/or Items they wanted to have - and participated in the Content concerned solely for them.

What do Others get ? Others do partially the SAME. CONTENT. for One or several Years - do the Conditions and/or Bosses to get the desired Item or Mounts to loot between Fifty and several Hundreds of Times,

-> and they still - don't get the desired Drop.

Yes. My Experiences in which MMO i have seen this happening, stem from World of WoW-Token Craft. The Inequality and Unevenness between Players who put in the same Amount of Time and Effort, is completely off the Charts.

While in for Example PvP-Combat, an Element of permanent Surprise and Change is a welcome Experience most of the Time - the complete Opposite is the Case for Drops of specific Items and/or Mounts that some Players want more than anything else.

Meaning the " RNG "-Factor should mostly not affect the Possibility or Set- or Mount-Drops. There should always be a certain Height, so that Players don't need to invest "Years"* of Effort and Time into getting One or Two Items and/or Mounts.

A Suggestion of mine, is to build in a Factor, that raises the Percent-Chance of a certain Mount or Item to drop from a certain Condition and/or BossMob,

by half a Percent to full a Percent every single Time. So that when People for Example do a BossMob they can only kill and loot once in a Week for Example,

when they kill that certain Mob -> they have to do it about a hundred Times or less at Maximum. Which could in the worst Case still be about Two Years, if the Players are unlucky.

Oh You killed Mob " XYZ the Corrupter " ?? One Time ? Ten Times ?

If his/her Dropchance to get the Player the desired Item was only about 1,24% at first -> the Dropchance raises to 12,24% after Ten Kills.

And to 22,2% after Twenty Kills.

Only a Suggestion. I know that a Game like World of WoW-Token Craft will of Course never do that. The People who decided it's Mechanics l~ooove to see People try for Years to get their desired ingame Items and/or Mounts,

meaning the permanently stressed Players will subscribe their Soul-less Game for Years and Years and Years to come ... ... ... 😑 . 🙄

Freemeta

a system i would like to see in game is pity timer to balance against bad RNG.
there is a fun system like that in the game: The Dungeon Of Naheulbeuk, the amulet of chaos
Randomia Gauge: source :dsogaming

"Every character has a chance to either parry or dodge a successful attack, and there is also a 3% chance to have a critical failure (which is connected to the story). This critical failure could lead to casting the wrong spell, falling down, or even have your members damaging themselves or teammates. When your party misses or suffers from these bad luck events, a meter fills, called The Randomia meter (the amount added is based on how unlucky you were). Once filled it allows 4 different actions to be used. The effects range from giving an additional action point to a single party member, teleporting someone, or even healing the entire team a little. It’s a nice system and can turn the tide of an encounter."

The_Gaming_Butler

Vaknar wrote: »

Dev Discussion - RNG
Which systems do you feel utilize RNG the best? Where do you feel RNG does not belong? What RNG-based systems or features have you enjoyed the most?

The biggest concern with RNG is low drop chance. Something with a 0.1% drop chance is likely never going to drop.

I'm a big fan of Bad Luck Protection, where the system keeps track of every time you've rolled for an item and not received it. Increasing the chance to get it each time failure occurs.

I play game to have fun - constantly not getting a thing is not fun - eventually its very frustrating. What this means is that when I eventually get it, there is no happiness or joy, there is only relief that the constant failure is done. I find myself forever curious how many players experience joy at getting the thing they have tried for so long to get, and how many players are just happy they don't have to do that thing any more, and can stop doing a boring repetitive kill-activity to get the thing.

Bad Luck Protection is a great way to have RNG, and not have people fall into frustration.

Leukael

Vaknar wrote: »

Which systems do you feel utilize RNG the best? Where do you feel RNG does not belong? What RNG-based systems or features have you enjoyed the most?

I think RNG best applies to damage, non-combat, and spawns of mobs.

Most importantly in the non-combat rng (crafting/gathering/processing) it should be chances for bonuses and not for failure. I like it when systems give you a chance to save on material cost or gather bonus amounts from nodes. I don't enjoy the random chance to fail entirely. It always ends up feeling silly and non-immersive when my max'ed out herber can't pick a level 1 plant because "there's always a chance to crit fail."

For monster spawns, I feel like it keeps the game dynamic and immersive if spawn rates have some randomness to them and have some factors you can influence. I also like the idea if it applied to mob numbers or types spawning being somewhat varied. Nothing crazy to ruin kill quests but something just to make it a bit less mechanical.

As far as damage goes, I feel like this is pretty tried and true throughout games and doesn't need a lot of discussion. It works, it feels good, and should apply equally to defensives (mitigation and healing) as it does to damage is the only note I'll leave. Cheers everyone on a great conversation!

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