Weapon swapping / bar swapping Thoughts...

The most recent melee weapon combat reveal was great! yes there are minor technical things that need to be worked out, but overall GREAT progress...
With that being said. I picked up a few things that were not the focus of the reveal.

WEAPON SWAPING!!! I HOPE that intrepid implements a "bar swap" system allowing for different abilities to be assigned when swapping weapons. Simply put if my sword and board are equipped, I should have the ability to slot some of my more "tanky/defensive/ buff" skills and then when swap to my two hand "offensive/movement" skills can be utilized.
This style worked great in other games and gave birth to combat builds that had a great "push and pull" effect to combat, PvP especially. A bar swap type of combat add SOOOO much diversity to how a character's combat might play. It also allows a player to really flesh out their own playstyle. Eso did a pretty good job at this. I will say that not having "weapon skills" is an interesting take but that can of worms can stay closed until we see more of the ability's released.

Oh, and one of the devs said Ultimate in the video EXCITING!!

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PenguinPaladin

Conrad wrote: »

I would be OK with a 2ndary wep slot for ranged since that makes loads of sense. However, no 2 weapons of same type, ie no ranged/ranged or melee/melee (dual wield not included)

The 2 weapon slots, and one ranged slots imply swaping from only melee to ranged or back again.

I imagine 2 handed weapons will take both melee slots.

Or sword+shield

Or duel weild.

daveywavey

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Thank god for @crow3 truly the most helpful person on the forums

But, he's playing a dwarf, so he's still on the Hit List. It's a shame, really.

Optics2134

It been a long while since I chimed in on this.... Weapon swaps is a must guys... How are you going to make a high fantasy game with elves and not be able to make a Legolas, who can put an arrow in your eye then a blade in your ear hole without having to open your bags.... bags for changing weapons.... taxing.....

Three slots are needed Main hand, off hand, Ranged weapon. That damn simple

Now should there be restrictions on weapon types that you can put together sure. based on weight, size, type ect....

keep to the semi traditional stuff..... We need to see what they do with active block, dodge, mana and stamina before weapon slots and swapping can really be dissected into what works best.

I mean how can you make an assassin class without double daggers and throwing knives or short bow.

How are you going to make a sword and board tank without a range weapon to pull? Oh shit hold on guys I'm out of mana I have no way to agro that mob just run around in circles while I drink.... really...

George_Black

They said that all classes will have a ranged weapon slot.
When a class uses a ranged ability the ranged weapon will be swapped in automatically for the animation/action.

Optics2134

George_Black wrote: »

They said that all classes will have a ranged weapon slot.
When a class uses a ranged ability the ranged weapon will be swapped in automatically for the animation/action.

GREAT INFO MAN THANKS!!! I was unaware....

Depraved

i wanna be able to hot swap armors in the middle of the fight

Mag7spy

Optics2134 wrote: »

It been a long while since I chimed in on this.... Weapon swaps is a must guys... How are you going to make a high fantasy game with elves and not be able to make a Legolas, who can put an arrow in your eye then a blade in your ear hole without having to open your bags.... bags for changing weapons.... taxing.....

Three slots are needed Main hand, off hand, Ranged weapon. That damn simple

Now should there be restrictions on weapon types that you can put together sure. based on weight, size, type ect....

keep to the semi traditional stuff..... We need to see what they do with active block, dodge, mana and stamina before weapon slots and swapping can really be dissected into what works best.

I mean how can you make an assassin class without double daggers and throwing knives or short bow.

How are you going to make a sword and board tank without a range weapon to pull? Oh shit hold on guys I'm out of mana I have no way to agro that mob just run around in circles while I drink.... really...

Wiki is your friend to getting some answers to your questions!

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Weapons

Myosotys

Optics2134 wrote: »

The most recent melee weapon combat reveal was great! yes there are minor technical things that need to be worked out, but overall GREAT progress...
With that being said. I picked up a few things that were not the focus of the reveal.

WEAPON SWAPING!!! I HOPE that intrepid implements a "bar swap" system allowing for different abilities to be assigned when swapping weapons. Simply put if my sword and board are equipped, I should have the ability to slot some of my more "tanky/defensive/ buff" skills and then when swap to my two hand "offensive/movement" skills can be utilized.
This style worked great in other games and gave birth to combat builds that had a great "push and pull" effect to combat, PvP especially. A bar swap type of combat add SOOOO much diversity to how a character's combat might play. It also allows a player to really flesh out their own playstyle. Eso did a pretty good job at this. I will say that not having "weapon skills" is an interesting take but that can of worms can stay closed until we see more of the ability's released.

Oh, and one of the devs said Ultimate in the video EXCITING!!

I didn't quite understand what "bar swapping" was, but I'm against the idea of being able to swap gear in PvP.

In PvE, however, I hope it will be possible without opening your inventory and assigning keys.

Ideally, I'd like to see a gauge that fills up every time you take a PvP hit, and then gradually empties. As long as you're in PvP, I think it should be impossible to switch gear.

George_Black wrote: »

Im all good here. NW is a bad game. It's a waste of time talking about it. Same with eso but to a lesser extend.

I agree that overall, the game is bad. But New Word has some interesting mechanics. The double weapons were poorly designed, but the moves and dodges based on the weight of the armor were pretty well done.

Azherae

I like having the Liberty to switch between at least two weapons, but find it interesting when your other gear can't be quickly swapped.

Depraved

if weapons can be swapped, armor should be swapped too. i mean from stuff that you have in your bag ;3
i like being able to swap to different armors and sets to counter other people mid fight, or specific attacks.

however, there is an obvious exploit strategy. wear a garbage gear, attack someone, once they flag thinking they can beat you based on your gear, you swap to your strong gear and pwn them ;3

Azherae

Depraved wrote: »

if weapons can be swapped, armor should be swapped too. i mean from stuff that you have in your bag ;3
i like being able to swap to different armors and sets to counter other people mid fight, or specific attacks.

however, there is an obvious exploit strategy. wear a garbage gear, attack someone, once they flag thinking they can beat you based on your gear, you swap to your strong gear and pwn them ;3

I come from a main game where this is so common that mages have 3 button macros to swap their gear while casting, and melee swap from their 'Accuracy and Resource builder' gear to 'Big Numbers' gear before every big skill. The proficiency to swap at the precise moment between swings is considered a skill required for Max DPS.

I'm good at this and I hate it.

It's just two different metas fighting it out. I'm not trying to downplay your preference at all, I'm just noting that it gets extreme, and I would put serious money on the fact that the 'no armor swaps' thing came from Jeff, not Steven, due to a similar experience.

I personally believe the solution to this is to keep attack stats mostly limited to weapons and defense stats mostly limited to Armor and call it a day. If you are able to change your defense/Armor set quickly outside of combat, I don't mind (I believe we know there will be some presets). I don't think it needs to happen in combat.

Ruerik

Doesn't look like the team is designing for active hotbar swapping like in ESO (which was painful and not fun, its not fun in GW2 either, and i love gw2, play it a bit every week)

However, theres a quote here that says you will be able to swap hotbar layout and UI stuff "on the fly"
So you can make a keybind to hotbar swap if you want to, but you wont be changing your skills, just how things are laid out.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Action_bar

Depraved

Azherae wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

if weapons can be swapped, armor should be swapped too. i mean from stuff that you have in your bag ;3
i like being able to swap to different armors and sets to counter other people mid fight, or specific attacks.

however, there is an obvious exploit strategy. wear a garbage gear, attack someone, once they flag thinking they can beat you based on your gear, you swap to your strong gear and pwn them ;3

I come from a main game where this is so common that mages have 3 button macros to swap their gear while casting, and melee swap from their 'Accuracy and Resource builder' gear to 'Big Numbers' gear before every big skill. The proficiency to swap at the precise moment between swings is considered a skill required for Max DPS.

I'm good at this and I hate it.

It's just two different metas fighting it out. I'm not trying to downplay your preference at all, I'm just noting that it gets extreme, and I would put serious money on the fact that the 'no armor swaps' thing came from Jeff, not Steven, due to a similar experience.

I personally believe the solution to this is to keep attack stats mostly limited to weapons and defense stats mostly limited to Armor and call it a day. If you are able to change your defense/Armor set quickly outside of combat, I don't mind (I believe we know there will be some presets). I don't think it needs to happen in combat.

at least you use a macro. i had to swap manually each item one by one in ragnarok. i was basically playing piano with my keyboard the whole time i was pvping T_T

George_Black

Taerrik wrote: »

Doesn't look like the team is designing for active hotbar swapping like in ESO (which was painful and not fun, its not fun in GW2 either, and i love gw2, play it a bit every week)

However, theres a quote here that says you will be able to swap hotbar layout and UI stuff "on the fly"
So you can make a keybind to hotbar swap if you want to, but you wont be changing your skills, just how things are laid out.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Action_bar

I liked bar swapping in ESO. It's nice to have manual access to weapons. I wish mmos had them visible when sheathed and there was a 1.5s animation in sheathing and unsheathing them.

I did not like that you had only 5 skills and an ultimate for each of the 2 weapon slots.
The backbar was 90% of buffs/heals, the front bar was 30% abilities with good passive bonuses. Which means you had 3-4 fun skills to play with out of 10.

Astealoth

George_Black wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Eso? No.

I love bar swapping in eso.

How can you love it? You only have 12 skills, 6 per bar of which one is an ultimate. At least 3 of them must be mandatory selfbuffs and 1 is a mandatory heal. I am not even going to mention some classes that must slot ACTIVE SKILLS that they WONT USE, only for the passive benefit.

Is other words you have 6 abilities to play with. Only 6 abilities to slot from a massive pool:
Class
Weapons
Fighters guild
Mages guild
(Undaunted)
(3 armor weights)
Psyjic
Assult War
Defence War
Vampiric

How do you love esos bar swap? Even bdo has a better weapon swap system.

Those aren't your only abilities in ESO. Your potion slot is also an ability, and one of your most critical abilities at that. You can mix and match up to 3 buffs in this slot, and you can carry 1000 stacks of different combos. It is incredibly deep and nuanced. You're also forgetting your tap LMB, hold LMB, tap RMB, hold RMB, LMB+RMB, directional dodge. They are all abilities as well with highly specific functions like resources restore, interrupts, CCs, forcing weapon procs. ESO combat is much more intricate than those 12 buttons. Tap RMB is your animation cancel, which makes the skill ceiling quite high. What good parsing ESO builds do is utilize tap RMB to stack as many of your buttons as possible with buffs, and keep as many of those buffs rolling as possible, while utilizing only one or two actual attack skills. Your buff cycle is everything there and learning it is not some small thing. Once you have the muscle memory for a good buff cycle, you absolutely dominate people. It is very satisfying.

George_Black

Astealoth wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Eso? No.

I love bar swapping in eso.

How can you love it? You only have 12 skills, 6 per bar of which one is an ultimate. At least 3 of them must be mandatory selfbuffs and 1 is a mandatory heal. I am not even going to mention some classes that must slot ACTIVE SKILLS that they WONT USE, only for the passive benefit.

Is other words you have 6 abilities to play with. Only 6 abilities to slot from a massive pool:
Class
Weapons
Fighters guild
Mages guild
(Undaunted)
(3 armor weights)
Psyjic
Assult War
Defence War
Vampiric

How do you love esos bar swap? Even bdo has a better weapon swap system.

Those aren't your only abilities in ESO. Your potion slot is also an ability, and one of your most critical abilities at that. You can mix and match up to 3 buffs in this slot, and you can carry 1000 stacks of different combos. It is incredibly deep and nuanced. You're also forgetting your tap LMB, hold LMB, tap RMB, hold RMB, LMB+RMB, directional dodge. They are all abilities as well with highly specific functions like resources restore, interrupts, CCs, forcing weapon procs. ESO combat is much more intricate than those 12 buttons. Tap RMB is your animation cancel, which makes the skill ceiling quite high. What good parsing ESO builds do is utilize tap RMB to stack as many of your buttons as possible with buffs, and keep as many of those buffs rolling as possible, while utilizing only one or two actual attack skills. Your buff cycle is everything there and learning it is not some small thing. Once you have the muscle memory for a good buff cycle, you absolutely dominate people. It is very satisfying.

Why are you telling me this?

Freemeta

Depraved wrote: »

i wanna be able to hot swap armors in the middle of the fight

haha, you are joking but it could be pretty cool (and better than a basic stance swap) tank summoning armor?

https://youtu.be/gOPebPzDDMU?si=Rg1AmqNmQ0et7Epa

Depraved

Freemeta wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

i wanna be able to hot swap armors in the middle of the fight

haha, you are joking but it could be pretty cool (and better than a basic stance swap) tank summoning armor?
https://youtu.be/gOPebPzDDMU?si=Rg1AmqNmQ0et7Epa

im joking but also im not xD
swapping weapons, armors and accessories mid fight its fun and adds more strategy and lets u squeeze that 1% extra power but can be get pretty intense. im probably too old for that now.

im okay with melee - ranged weapon swaps just for normal attacks and weapon passives procs. no matter what weapon i use, i still have all my class skills available in my hotbar.

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