NiKr wrote: » Dygz wrote: » I'm not confident you share the same meaning for Grinding that Steven has. From what I understand of your definition - you, specifically, will still have fun Grinding a bunch of stuff - even when Steven states they have successfully made Grinding negligible. I just don't see how they'll create hundreds of hours of even semi-unique content on release. And that's the requirement for not having grind. I guess Steven might've been talking about the people who play 2h a week. Then I'd agree that they won't have to grind, because there'll be enough content for them to enjoy for months to come. But then Steven should've explained himself better (but you already know that this is a common theme with Steven )
Dygz wrote: » I'm not confident you share the same meaning for Grinding that Steven has. From what I understand of your definition - you, specifically, will still have fun Grinding a bunch of stuff - even when Steven states they have successfully made Grinding negligible.
Nova_terra wrote: » There will never be enough content for the 10%ers. But then again, as one of those people I don't begrudge games/studios for not keeping up with my voracious consumption of content. As long as the game loops/systems for leveling and endgame are "good enough" *cough* NW *cough* I have no problem pushing the limits and continuing to invest in the world.
NiKr wrote: » Nova_terra wrote: » There will never be enough content for the 10%ers. But then again, as one of those people I don't begrudge games/studios for not keeping up with my voracious consumption of content. As long as the game loops/systems for leveling and endgame are "good enough" *cough* NW *cough* I have no problem pushing the limits and continuing to invest in the world. Oh, I'm completely fine with grind. Especially mob grind. That's my shit. I'm just curious about the statement of "we aim to not have grind". Because, as always, it's the vaguest statement and it doesn't explain what the hell that even means. Does it address repetitive quests? Mobs? Node tasks? Does it pertain to 2h a week people or 12h a day people? It's "all the claims with none the detail".
Raven016 wrote: » There will not be repetitive quest lines through a single dungeon to obtain gear.[12] That means there will be multiple dungeons
Flashfirez23 wrote: » I really am excited for Ashes and I think this MMO has the potential to fix many issues that MMOs currently have. One of my biggest issues with MMOs is that leveling and questing don't matter and the experience is not engaging in 90% of MMOs. I am sick of filer content that is only in the game to increase your playtime and is not inherently interesting in any way. I am done doing kill 10 boar quests in every MMO or “role-playing” as a UPS delivery person. There’s no epic adventure. It’s just a checklist of tasks. There’s no intrigue and everything is handed to you. It’s quality over any quality or substance. I’m just tired of this and want quests and leveling to actually feel like an adventure. Quests should mean something again and tell stories. We should be learning about the world and characters, making decisions that matter, and going on a rewarding journey. It is better for an MMO to have 100 great quests than 1000 forgettable time-wasting quests. Kill-and-collect quests, fetch quests, and errand quests need to be left in 2004. Every quest should matter and be immersive. Leveling should also mean something. I miss when it mattered and not something you just rushed through. The good part of the game should be available to you as you progress to the level cap not just when you hit the level cap. Obviously, there should be things to work for once you hit the max level that challenges you. But, it is important that there is enough engaging content during the leveling as well so you feel engaged throughout this process. Not just filer quests with the occasional dungeon thrown in. We need areas of challenge in the leveling process. MMO leveling is too easy. Nothing is challenging anymore until you hit the max level. It is hard to be engaged when you can level half paying attention and still not be at risk of dying. Danger is important to making you respect the world and it keeps things mysterious. It is important that there are some areas in the leveling process that challenge players. What are your thoughts on how leveling and quests should be in Ashes?
NiKr wrote: » I just don't see how they'll create hundreds of hours of even semi-unique content on release. And that's the requirement for not having grind. I guess Steven might've been talking about the people who play 2h a week. Then I'd agree that they won't have to grind, because there'll be enough content for them to enjoy for months to come. But then Steven should've explained himself better (but you already know that this is a common theme with Steven )
NiKr wrote: » But does that mean that outside of those quests mobs are so damn useless that you don't even wanna touch them? And even if there's different dungeons with different quests - how many of those are there and at what point would you hit their end and would have to either stop playing or start repeating content?
Dygz wrote: » Same dungeon; different mobs, different quests, different tasks. I dunno what you mean by "end" when content changes based on the interconnected Stages of all the active Nodes and which Service buildings are constructed - and Verran Calendar date and Weather. And probably which Races and Node Types are dominant. In addition to the plan to have Seasonal content - a promise which seems easier for MMOs to fulfill these days.
Mag7spy wrote: » People out here expecting the impossible and first time of a mmorpg will only be let down.
NiKr wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Same dungeon; different mobs, different quests, different tasks. I dunno what you mean by "end" when content changes based on the interconnected Stages of all the active Nodes and which Service buildings are constructed - and Verran Calendar date and Weather. And probably which Races and Node Types are dominant. In addition to the plan to have Seasonal content - a promise which seems easier for MMOs to fulfill these days. As we've discussed before, our views on what "different" means differ Mag7spy wrote: » People out here expecting the impossible and first time of a mmorpg will only be let down. Right now I expect the exact same as all other mmos. It's just that it goes against what Steven claimed, which is why I can't wait for them to show what they have planned.
Neurath wrote: » I don't see how the devs can stop us farming dungeons when contestation is the main aim. Even if I can only enter a dungeon once a week its still grindable each month.
NiKr wrote: » Neurath wrote: » I don't see how the devs can stop us farming dungeons when contestation is the main aim. Even if I can only enter a dungeon once a week its still grindable each month. Precisely. It's one of the contradictions of the presented design. Maybe Steven is closer to Dygz in his view of what "different stuff" is, so all the small changes due to seasons or things like that seem different enough for him to not call clearing them "grind". Either way, w/o seeing at least one full cycle of a dungeon changing through all player and non-player actions we won't know how truly different it is.
NiKr wrote: » Right now I expect the exact same as all other mmos. It's just that it goes against what Steven claimed, which is why I can't wait for them to show what they have planned.
NiKr wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » There will not be repetitive quest lines through a single dungeon to obtain gear.[12] That means there will be multiple dungeons But does that mean that outside of those quests mobs are so damn useless that you don't even wanna touch them? And even if there's different dungeons with different quests - how many of those are there and at what point would you hit their end and would have to either stop playing or start repeating content?
Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Neurath wrote: » I don't see how the devs can stop us farming dungeons when contestation is the main aim. Even if I can only enter a dungeon once a week its still grindable each month. Precisely. It's one of the contradictions of the presented design. Maybe Steven is closer to Dygz in his view of what "different stuff" is, so all the small changes due to seasons or things like that seem different enough for him to not call clearing them "grind". Either way, w/o seeing at least one full cycle of a dungeon changing through all player and non-player actions we won't know how truly different it is. Promises Promises. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPUHJqNrqY The world is full of promises. Did y'all's old RPGs seriously NEVER change the dungeon enemies or distributions, though? I know it's not common to do it, but I'm a bit surprised at the 'doesn't really have any dynamism at all'. Not even when the weather changed?
Azherae wrote: » The world is full of promises.
Azherae wrote: » Did y'all's old RPGs seriously NEVER change the dungeon enemies or distributions, though? I know it's not common to do it, but I'm a bit surprised at the 'doesn't really have any dynamism at all'. Not even when the weather changed?
