A case of Kaelar wooden toy Soldiers and the magical yellow Fighter hammer.

My conceen is that the Devs have encountered a problem with caravans being used to transport mats from region to region and deter players from just loading their bags and avoiding the caravan pvp risk.

The cargo we saw today is part of the transported caravan goods.

The original idea was that players must transport goods from one region to the next to make a profit.
To which players said "why risk using caravans? Might as well carry bags".
Steven said there will be other reasons to do so.
Today we saw those reasons.
To sell toy soldiers to NPCs. Aren't we sending heroes back to Vera?
There are no kids here so we dont need to sell toys to NPCs.
I mean since people are strict with the lore and insist that due to the lore a Fighter must summon giant yellow magic hammers because fighters in vera (that has no kids but has toy soldiers) because Fighters are a bit magical.

I say let's go back to the origonal plan of having to carry materials with caravans and players can loot useful materials (not npc gameplay toy soldiers) to craft or sell. Social gameplay, that holds together pvp pve crafting gathering exploration etc etc.
Not npc vendor gameplay and bound currencies.
Also, to combat rmt we need account activity tracking with red flags, not making content NPC centered.

Work out the logistics Devs. Find a way to force material transport via caravans.
Only RPers will be interested in running caravans for the NPCs gold payments.

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Liniker

Rewatch the livestream.

Steven mentioned you can transport both commodities and resources, the focus today was commodities, thats why it was shown, but you still can spawn caravans for all sorts of goods, you can farm fish, wood, metal, load your caravan and take them away for profit to sell to players, if you get attacked, those can be lost/looted, it didn't change we just got extra info and a more in depth system.

Hope they keep the magic hammer for fighters, looks great.

Songcaller

I kind of prefer we can travel with commodities rather than the old monster certificates because if it isn't commodities it would have been certificates man.

George_Black

Liniker wrote: »

Rewatch the livestream.

Steven mentioned you can transport both commodities and resources, the focus today was commodities, thats why it was shown, but you still can spawn caravans for all sorts of goods, you can farm fish, wood, metal, load your caravan and take them away for profit to sell to players, if you get attacked, those can be lost/looted, it didn't change we just got extra info and a more in depth system.

Hope they keep the magic hammer for fighters, looks great.

My concern is that we can still carry mats from region to region without the caravans and that commodities are used to intice players, which they wont.

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

Also, to combat rmt we need account activity tracking with red flags, not making content NPC centered.

In L2 did you ever sell useless mats from mobs to npcs in towns? Cause glint is the same concept.

As for transporting goods, I think that'll already be happening way more than transporting glint, because the only way to make people transport glint is to make the payout multiplier at other nodes way higher than what you would get at the node you were farming in.

And I sure as hell hope Intrepid's economy designers are not as silly as the people who'd implement that kind of multiplier.

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

My concern is that we can still carry mats from region to region without the caravans and that commodities are used to intice players, which they wont.

It was always about the scale of your transfers. Unless you're transferring x100 the volume of your inventory - you would've never used a caravan.

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

My concern is that we can still carry mats from region to region without the caravans and that commodities are used to intice players, which they wont.

It was always about the scale of your transfers. Unless you're transferring x100 the volume of your inventory - you would've never used a caravan.

I'd prefer to transport more than 4 pieces of commodities though. I don't see why the commodities can't stack.

Liniker

George_Black wrote: »

My concern is that we can still carry mats from region to region without the caravans and that commodities are used to intice players, which they wont.

You can't make that statement without having tested the system, we have seen how limited player inventory will be, we dont know about the mules, so saying it is viable to carry mats (replacing caravan capacity) from region to region is not valid speculation.

Also, commodities are a way to generate gold, introduce gold to the economy, and that being made through character bound tokens such as Glint is 100% brilliant

now, thats not to say you can not "make" gold by trading with players, selling items and resources using caravans and professions, those can be as or even more profitable, that didn't change, so I don't really see what is the issue here

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

I'd prefer to transport more than 4 pieces of commodities though. I don't see why the commodities can't stack.

Commodities is just money though. It's nothing but money. It only has the shape that it does to force people to upgrade caravans, which are a gold sink.

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I'd prefer to transport more than 4 pieces of commodities though. I don't see why the commodities can't stack.

Commodities is just money though. It's nothing but money. It only has the shape that it does to force people to upgrade caravans, which are a gold sink.

The risk is so smallllllllllll though...

George_Black

The issue is that caravans started as the lifestream of the economy, which also tie gathering processing and lifelike bandit gameplay like very few mmos could achieve, and it looks like it might end up as a RP activity.

It's worth discussing in full transparency.

Songcaller

There's still banditry and subversive actions. The Glint is soul bound and when looted after death becomes Stolen Glint which can only be sold at black markets in some nodes but the node faces reputation hits if they accept the black market but it also has benefits so its a trade off.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

The risk is so smallllllllllll though...

Risk of what exactly? I still think caravans will get attacked for no other reason than just people looking to PK/PvP other people.

And with the speed of caravans, even if you have the decoys they would just get destroyed and the attackers would move onto the real deal.

Songcaller

The risk to my commodities because 4 commodities is a pittance. I don't want to run caravans all day to move 4 commodities a time. I want to run one caravan a day moving 40 or 400 commodities a day. When I want to pvp I'll just run empty caravans or assist my guild with guild runs. Why is the commodities caravan only 4 when resource caravans are 100 times the inventory?

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

The issue is that caravans started as the lifestream of the economy, which also tie gathering processing and lifelike bandit gameplay like very few mmos could achieve, and it looks like it might end up as a RP activity.

It's worth discussing in full transparency.

And why exactly do you think that is gone? Cause I saw no indication of that during the stream. The stream showed nothing new gameplay-wise (just as I thought).

Neurath wrote: »

There's still banditry and subversive actions. The Glint is soul bound and when looted after death becomes Stolen Glint which can only be sold at black markets in some nodes but the node faces reputation hits if they accept the black market but it also has benefits so its a trade off.

Depending on how stolen goods interact with other players (if at all), those black markets could potentially be good places for BH ambushes

I fucking dearly hope BHs can interact with stolen goods, just as I had suggested a looong time ago.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

The risk to my commodities because 4 commodities is a pittance. I don't want to run caravans all day to move 4 commodities a time. I want to run one caravan a day moving 40 or 400 commodities a day. When I want to pvp I'll just run empty caravans or assist my guild with guild runs. Why is the commodities caravan only 4 when resource caravans are 100 times the inventory?

You did see that commodities had different costs, right? All the glint you gather throughout your day can be traded into super pricey commodities and then transferred at super high risk.

George_Black

Neurath wrote: »

There's still banditry and subversive actions. The Glint is soul bound and when looted after death becomes Stolen Glint which can only be sold at black markets in some nodes but the node faces reputation hits if they accept the black market but it also has benefits so its a trade off.

Too many hoops to jump.
Competitive players will focus on traditional paths of progress and ignore all the good things AoC CAN offer.

If we pretend there isnt an issue we wont fix the issue.
Go find Stevens answer when somebody asked "What stops people from carrying mats in there bags".
Steven said "there will be other rewards with caravans".
We saw those rewards today and they arent enough.

Songcaller

NiKr wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

The risk to my commodities because 4 commodities is a pittance. I don't want to run caravans all day to move 4 commodities a time. I want to run one caravan a day moving 40 or 400 commodities a day. When I want to pvp I'll just run empty caravans or assist my guild with guild runs. Why is the commodities caravan only 4 when resource caravans are 100 times the inventory?

You did see that commodities had different costs, right? All the glint you gather throughout your day can be traded into super pricey commodities and then transferred at super high risk.

Yeah but different commodities cost different kinds of glint. I just want to kill stuff, get the range of glint and buy everything I can with whatever glint I've gained. I didn't like Steven buying 4 meats and only transporting 2 for example...I think the example could've been better thought out, really triggered me lol.

Songcaller

George_Black wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

There's still banditry and subversive actions. The Glint is soul bound and when looted after death becomes Stolen Glint which can only be sold at black markets in some nodes but the node faces reputation hits if they accept the black market but it also has benefits so its a trade off.

Too many hoops to jump.
Competitive players will focus on traditional paths of progress and ignore all the good things AoC CAN offer.

If we pretend there isnt an issue we wont fix the issue.
Go find Stevens answer when somebody asked "What stops people from carrying mats in there bags".
Steven said "there will be other rewards with caravans".
We saw those rewards today and they arent enough.

I will carry mats in my bag...I'll use a Mule too (Which gives corruption when killed). I will only use caravans to assist my guild or move resources. We have to pay taxes with Glint so it makes sense to stock pile Glint. I asked for glint to be stackable in banks and personal storage.

Ludullu

Neurath wrote: »

Yeah but different commodities cost different kinds of glint. I just want to kill stuff, get the range of glint and buy everything I can with whatever glint I've gained. I didn't like Steven buying 4 meats and only transporting 2 for example...I think the example could've been better thought out, really triggered me lol.

Have they said that all those glints are separate and not just a representation of bronze/silver/gold, as currency would work in other games?

Cause if they have, then ooooooh boi I gotta add a thing to my feedback. If all those glints (which are fucking bound) are all completely separate items then it's just inventory clutter and I definitely don't want that shit.

I rewatched that part of the stream and it looks sus as fuck tbh. I think Steven had a GM cheat on where he'd get endless replenishment of glint. And the prices on commodities didn't match any glint consumption (or whatever was popping up in the bottom right corner of the screen).

But considering the supposed tax on commodities, I'd imagine that there's some form of currency scaling (or however you call the "1 gold is comprised of 100 silver, which is comprised of 10000 bronze" stuff).

Cause if we need to farm exact amounts of precise glints to buy commodities - that's even fucking stupider than this system might seem at first glance

@Azherae I know you've either fully parsed those details or at least noticed them and thought about them. What do they represent/mean, if anything?

Songcaller

Yeah, The 3 or 4 glints are separate in the inventory but thousands of monster certificates would have been much worse. You'd have no room for anything else if monster certs had remained.

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