Imposed PvP and ganking

Hi dear community,

I have the question about known so far game mechanics related to PvP.

People are different, and making their fun on different stuff. Killing another players is some kind of fun for them. What can stop an organised group of top PvP players from ganking everything around and thus ruining game experience for everybody around? They are good in PvP, they are seasoned and organised - so no single/casual player or ad-hoc groups can do anything to them. For sure GMs won't babysitting casual players, so there must be some kind of game mechanic which stop group asocial behaviour.

Needless to say that casual players are the base for every MMO game - they are many, they pay subscription to devs and they make the game live.

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Ludullu

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Not really considering synergy of magic schools exist and if you multibox with 3 mages you could essentially be in control of your procs vs cooperative gameplay or random occurances.
like i said, look at the status effects for elemental schools.

I'll make my point clearer. If targetting those mages onto a single victim, using 3 spells which then do noticeable dmg due to their synergy is super easy - to me this is a problem with the game's skill requirement, rather than a multibox problem.

Enigmatic Sage

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Not really considering synergy of magic schools exist and if you multibox with 3 mages you could essentially be in control of your procs vs cooperative gameplay or random occurances.
like i said, look at the status effects for elemental schools.

I'll make my point clearer. If targetting those mages onto a single victim, using 3 spells which then do noticeable dmg due to their synergy is super easy - to me this is a problem with the game's skill requirement, rather than a multibox problem.

lol focus firing is essential strategy regardless. Based on your wording, sounds like you are in favour for allowing multiboxing.

Ludullu

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

lol focus firing is essential strategy regardless. Based on your wording, sounds like you are in favour for allowing multiboxing.

There's a difference between "I can press 6 buttons and deal high dmg from 3 characters" and "three people gotta have enough skill to target an enemy and use their abilities in a precise order to trigger a proper synergistic effect to get any benefit out of it".

Even L2 with its macros system didn't let you control 3 windows easily if you didn't use some scripts or several keyboards or some shit like that. And I want Ashes to be even more difficult than that. Especially when it comes to synergies.

I'm happy for mages who have their cute little reactions between fire, electricity and ice, but I'd hope that these reactions won't do nearly as much dmg as a good synergistic chain that requires more skill than pressing 3 buttons.

Enigmatic Sage

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

lol focus firing is essential strategy regardless. Based on your wording, sounds like you are in favour for allowing multiboxing.

There's a difference between "I can press 6 buttons and deal high dmg from 3 characters" and "three people gotta have enough skill to target an enemy and use their abilities in a precise order to trigger a proper synergistic effect to get any benefit out of it".

Even L2 with its macros system didn't let you control 3 windows easily if you didn't use some scripts or several keyboards or some shit like that. And I want Ashes to be even more difficult than that. Especially when it comes to synergies.

I'm happy for mages who have their cute little reactions between fire, electricity and ice, but I'd hope that these reactions won't do nearly as much dmg as a good synergistic chain that requires more skill than pressing 3 buttons.

I'm just referring to the augment of magic school synergy. I'm assuming most mage secondary archetypes could pull it off too. I just used mages for simplicity.

There is ways to essentially make multiboxing easier. Dont technically need several peripherals depending on set up and positioning.

Ludullu

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

There is ways to essentially make multiboxing easier. Dont technically need several peripherals depending on set up and positioning.

And there are ways to make beneficial multiboxing harder. Detargetting abilities on both players and mobs. More movement on mobs, so that people can't just face their chars in one direction and always hit their target.

And something like reactive synergy timers that depend on target's actions would put a higher floor on synergies being viable for multiboxers.

Depraved

if i was a dps with 2 dual boxes, id rather have a bard and a cleric lol
anyways it doesnt matter too much. people will still kill you.

Raven016

Cutting trees with one of the box already makes multi-boxing an unfair advantage. Players who have just one box will have to do the boring work while the other enjoys the game, only time to time checking what the woodcutter does. Or do we have to click each time to hit with the axe that tree?
And summons, will defend us if we are attacked, 1 min afk? Or do they look how we are being killed?

Depraved

Raven016 wrote: »

Cutting trees with one of the box already makes multi-boxing an unfair advantage. Players who have just one box will have to do the boring work while the other enjoys the game, only time to time checking what the woodcutter does. Or do we have to click each time to hit with the axe that tree?
And summons, will defend us if we are attacked, 1 min afk? Or do they look how we are being killed?

i think you gonna have to click each time...

Enigmatic Sage

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

There is ways to essentially make multiboxing easier. Dont technically need several peripherals depending on set up and positioning.

And there are ways to make beneficial multiboxing harder. Detargetting abilities on both players and mobs. More movement on mobs, so that people can't just face their chars in one direction and always hit their target.

And something like reactive synergy timers that depend on target's actions would put a higher floor on synergies being viable for multiboxers.

They could but based on what we've seen with classes, combat and "tab" targeting it's not likely. They want people to pay for additional monthly subs on several account, extra cosmetics etc. Based on how multiboxing works you make it sound like people who have used it don't know how to play games. Come multi box but we'll make unplayable... boy that sure makes it sound like the devs know what they're doing with design choices lol

Enigmatic Sage

Raven016 wrote: »

Cutting trees with one of the box already makes multi-boxing an unfair advantage. Players who have just one box will have to do the boring work while the other enjoys the game, only time to time checking what the woodcutter does. Or do we have to click each time to hit with the axe that tree?
And summons, will defend us if we are attacked, 1 min afk? Or do they look how we are being killed?

The way it generally works is all the characters and inputs are generally linked to the "alpha" character. What you do on the alpha is generally mirrored to the others. If you harvest something, they'll all try to harvest it too essentially. If you do an attack, they'll all do it too. If you target something, they'll essentially target it too.

Ludullu

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

The way it generally works is all the characters and inputs are generally linked to the "alpha" character. What you do on the alpha is generally mirrored to the others. If you harvest something, they'll all try to harvest it too essentially. If you do an attack, they'll all do it too. If you target something, they'll essentially target it too.

Sounds awfully similar to scripting or multi-input button presses, which iirc is against what Intrepid wants in the game.

Which is why I'm saying that Intrepid could have multiboxing but also have it as a very difficult thing to benefit from. Just as a solo player "could in theory get a freehold" - multiboxers could "in theory" benefit from multiboxing.

Enigmatic Sage

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

The way it generally works is all the characters and inputs are generally linked to the "alpha" character. What you do on the alpha is generally mirrored to the others. If you harvest something, they'll all try to harvest it too essentially. If you do an attack, they'll all do it too. If you target something, they'll essentially target it too.

Sounds awfully similar to scripting or multi-input button presses, which iirc is against what Intrepid wants in the game.

Which is why I'm saying that Intrepid could have multiboxing but also have it as a very difficult thing to benefit from. Just as a solo player "could in theory get a freehold" - multiboxers could "in theory" benefit from multiboxing.

Multiboxing is multiboxing. you can paint a pig any colour you want, it's still a pig.

Most of the threads and discussions on the forums is hypothetical theory crafting.. People not understanding language is on them.

Raven016

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Cutting trees with one of the box already makes multi-boxing an unfair advantage. Players who have just one box will have to do the boring work while the other enjoys the game, only time to time checking what the woodcutter does. Or do we have to click each time to hit with the axe that tree?
And summons, will defend us if we are attacked, 1 min afk? Or do they look how we are being killed?

The way it generally works is all the characters and inputs are generally linked to the "alpha" character. What you do on the alpha is generally mirrored to the others. If you harvest something, they'll all try to harvest it too essentially. If you do an attack, they'll all do it too. If you target something, they'll essentially target it too.

If Steven lets players zoom out a lot, no wonder they end up willing to have a BG3 experience.
I don't know if multiboxing means only what you say. To me it means also that a player can turn 90° to his laptop to open the door for the other character which runs toward the base, gaining the advantage of not having to dismount and lose time while being chased by other players.
Any kind of advantage a player gets by owning two accounts, even if he has to alt-tab to a GeForce Now account, to me is unfair.
But the obvious cases will not be allowed, according to that discord post.

Enigmatic Sage

Raven016 wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Cutting trees with one of the box already makes multi-boxing an unfair advantage. Players who have just one box will have to do the boring work while the other enjoys the game, only time to time checking what the woodcutter does. Or do we have to click each time to hit with the axe that tree?
And summons, will defend us if we are attacked, 1 min afk? Or do they look how we are being killed?

The way it generally works is all the characters and inputs are generally linked to the "alpha" character. What you do on the alpha is generally mirrored to the others. If you harvest something, they'll all try to harvest it too essentially. If you do an attack, they'll all do it too. If you target something, they'll essentially target it too.

If Steven lets players zoom out a lot, no wonder they end up willing to have a BG3 experience.
I don't know if multiboxing means only what you say. To me it means also that a player can turn 90° to his laptop to open the door for the other character which runs toward the base, gaining the advantage of not having to dismount and lose time while being chased by other players.
Any kind of advantage a player gets by owning two accounts, even if he has to alt-tab to a GeForce Now account, to me is unfair.
But the obvious cases will not be allowed, according to that discord post.

There's a lot of QoL features that can give advantages, especially if you play like a crane operator with your camera distance and field of view.

Funny thing is... who says it's limited to two.. could be three or four.
Could essentially buy four cheap pc builds and play the game on lowest settings possible for performance reasons. It just cant be run on the "same" computer. I wont bother going into details on ways around that.
There's a lot of functionality that can be accomplished through multi-boxing.
The discord post just suggests you have to do it through their conditions and potentially through their in-game/client account device. There's contradictions across the wiki, discord and dev updates constantly lol.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Multi-boxing

Morgalf

I have had two accounts in the past. Mostly, it was to play with family. When I had tried to use it for myself, it was difficult but possible to heal-bot myself in relatively competitive PvP, alt-tabbing across accounts. I never needed to get special modifications or addons. I feel double sided on this because I have a strong urge to pay for two accounts and make two summoner necromancers. It would be cool to roll around with an army of undead. However, that would likely lead to some very unfair gameplay. So, it should probably be against the TOS.

Dryadez

Im not really sure how people could even attempt to form an argument that multiboxing is anything but cheating and p2w. There's no good argument for it not to be banned.

Dygz

I consider add-ons to be more of a cheat than multi-boxing. Same for macros.
Multi-boxing is not the cheat. Botting is the cheat. Coding linked or autoplay behaviors is the cheat.

akabear

In L2, many of my guild and self-included multi-boxed 1-2 additional accounts.
Pay to win was not really a topic of discussion back then as it is now.
I think I could say with reasonable confidence that the purpose within our guild of multi-boxing was to enable parties of 2-3 to be supported as a full group of 5 with the unfilled slots boxed with the necessary but unpopular classes to enable play. We as a whole would drop our boxed toon for a live player that could fulfill that role.

So, in short, it was seen as a means to be enable play when we wanted and not be stuck in town waiting 30-180min for a group to venture out. No healer, meant no play.. No buffer, meant restricted play. Tanks and DD`s being far more popular and so the ratios between player selection was out. Players that played healers and buffers were rare and in high demand.

I hope that AoC provides sufficient autonomy between class types and game play styles such that groups can function well with a variety of class combinations so the L2 scenario is not required and leads less to multi-boxing.

Enigmatic Sage

Just seems weird.
In theory you're paying for several accounts to essentially farm 4 times faster potentially regardless of drops and quest turn-ins regardless of when you hit that resource sink plateau at max level.

Solo player? not anymore. just spend more money on hardware, utilities and subscriptions! lol.
throw some combat pets on top of that, an 8 man group could essentially be ran by 3 people on average lol

Don't forget about aesthetically matching from our cosmetic shop, buy 4 times the cosmetics

Noaani

@Enigmatic Sage

As someone that has multi-boxxed in literally every online game I have ever played, all I can say is that you are speaking from a position of popular thought, rather than actual understanding.

As someone that absolutely refuses to use any macro unless built in to thr game itself, I can tell you that in a PvP setting, it is incredibly hard to make multi-boxing anything other than an outright liability.

A player multi-boxing and not using scripts has some very specific weaknesses that any smart player can take advantage of - the most obvious being multiple characters but the ability to only focus on one at a time.

Everything you've talked about I this thread is only really viable in games with little oversight in regards to macros.

If I run three mages in a game like Ashes, all you need to do to defeat that advantage is to keep the fight mobile, and then use any ability that controls movement of an opponent in any manner (root, pull, slow, teleport, bubble etc). If you control one mage and move the fight even a few seconds walk away, I now have to put almost all of my focus on to that character to move it back to my others. This leaves the rest of them vulnerable while my concentration is elsewhere.

It is worth pointing out that any more than three characters actually performing actions is either multiple people, or macros.

Now, this won't work as well if the player in question is using scripts or macros, but the issue then isn't the multi-boxing, it is the scripts and macros.

This is also why - despite literally everyone I know that played Archeage having multiple accounts, people didn't generally actually run multiple characters on content. It was a liability to do so.

It is also worth pointing out that the reason Intrepid are allowing multi-boxing is simply because when they put it to a vote, they did so pointing out that if it were against the rules, they have no way of detecting multi-boxing. They can detect macros and scripts, but not multi-boxing - there is no way to tell if two characters are one person on two computers, or two people on two computers.

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