Raven016 wrote: » I hate tanks so much!
FreeThinker wrote: » I know this has been a point of consideration for the Devs. From what I’ve seen there has been discussions of auto lock on to the Tank player in PvP settings. As much as I like being a meat shield as a Tank I don’t believe this is a viable option in PVP because all that will happen is that you’ll insta die from 5 players forced to attack you before moving on and focusing on a DPS/ healer. I don’t particularly have an amazing alternative idea but I thought starting a discussion around this topic could put some good ideas I out there that maybe the devs can pick up on.My idea You know what they say “hatred eats away at the hater” so I was thinking maybe in a pvp setting this acts as a DoT alongside the target switch but also the tank has decreased incoming damage when applying hatred skills to other players. This way Tanks aren’t just a minor inconvenience that everyone hyperfocuses on to get out the way or ignores due to super low damage and is a viable threat in pvp. Thoughts & ideas?
Depraved wrote: » FreeThinker wrote: » I know this has been a point of consideration for the Devs. From what I’ve seen there has been discussions of auto lock on to the Tank player in PvP settings. As much as I like being a meat shield as a Tank I don’t believe this is a viable option in PVP because all that will happen is that you’ll insta die from 5 players forced to attack you before moving on and focusing on a DPS/ healer. I don’t particularly have an amazing alternative idea but I thought starting a discussion around this topic could put some good ideas I out there that maybe the devs can pick up on.My idea You know what they say “hatred eats away at the hater” so I was thinking maybe in a pvp setting this acts as a DoT alongside the target switch but also the tank has decreased incoming damage when applying hatred skills to other players. This way Tanks aren’t just a minor inconvenience that everyone hyperfocuses on to get out the way or ignores due to super low damage and is a viable threat in pvp. Thoughts & ideas? if you dont want 5 dps to target and hit you, then dont use your aoe agro skill next to them. you simply dont press that button...you press that button when you think you can handle the damage. but let me tell you something, its better if you die than your healer also, tanks probably wont die from a fe dps hitting them, i mean they should have damage reduction stuff plus high defenses, blocks, etc plus you will have a healer healing you...
FreeThinker wrote: » Depraved wrote: » FreeThinker wrote: » I know this has been a point of consideration for the Devs. From what I’ve seen there has been discussions of auto lock on to the Tank player in PvP settings. As much as I like being a meat shield as a Tank I don’t believe this is a viable option in PVP because all that will happen is that you’ll insta die from 5 players forced to attack you before moving on and focusing on a DPS/ healer. I don’t particularly have an amazing alternative idea but I thought starting a discussion around this topic could put some good ideas I out there that maybe the devs can pick up on.My idea You know what they say “hatred eats away at the hater” so I was thinking maybe in a pvp setting this acts as a DoT alongside the target switch but also the tank has decreased incoming damage when applying hatred skills to other players. This way Tanks aren’t just a minor inconvenience that everyone hyperfocuses on to get out the way or ignores due to super low damage and is a viable threat in pvp. Thoughts & ideas? if you dont want 5 dps to target and hit you, then dont use your aoe agro skill next to them. you simply dont press that button...you press that button when you think you can handle the damage. but let me tell you something, its better if you die than your healer also, tanks probably wont die from a fe dps hitting them, i mean they should have damage reduction stuff plus high defenses, blocks, etc plus you will have a healer healing you... You’re focusing on the wrong thing. My point is the skill should have some utility in pvp
FreeThinker wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » I hate tanks so much! Why 😭 tanks are so underrated
Swifty00 wrote: » You could give players a damage bonus when attacking players, who have the most threat on their team. So if a dps generates a lot of threat they become more vulnerable to damage. A tank, by generating a lot more threat than dps or healing, within range, effectively gives everyone an anti-damage buff. With careful balancing it might work.
Noaani wrote: » Swifty00 wrote: » You could give players a damage bonus when attacking players, who have the most threat on their team. So if a dps generates a lot of threat they become more vulnerable to damage. A tank, by generating a lot more threat than dps or healing, within range, effectively gives everyone an anti-damage buff. With careful balancing it might work. This is not a thought out suggestion. If there was a damage bonus to who ever had the most threat, then you want your DPS to have that and thus a tank is a negative (a damage bonus means dealing more damage - not sure if you are aware of that based on this post). On the other hand, if the character with the most hate had a reduction to incoming damage (what it seems like you were actually trying to suggest), you would want that on your healer, not on your tank - thus still making having a tank an over all negative. Even if a group did have a tank in either of the above scenarios, the opposition side is still best served by just ignoring the tank, as said tank isnt actually able to do anything of concern. In order to make tanks viable in PvP, you need to give the opposition a reason to want to kill them before they go for the healers. The only viable means to do this is to make the healers very hard to kill if there is a tank looking after them. This is why a short duration forced target as the mechanic for a taunt works, you will want to kill the tanks before killing the healers if this was in place.
FreeThinker wrote: » How can you “look after the healer” while not actually doing any damage apart from the occasional CC. Admittedly this is highly speculative due to not knowing how viable a tanks damage will be overall
Azherae wrote: » FreeThinker wrote: » How can you “look after the healer” while not actually doing any damage apart from the occasional CC. Admittedly this is highly speculative due to not knowing how viable a tanks damage will be overall Cover/Guard/Aegis? Whatever the game wants to call it. Ashes is positional enough that we'll get one. I'd suggest they make two of these, actually. Is it that weird?
FreeThinker wrote: » Azherae wrote: » FreeThinker wrote: » How can you “look after the healer” while not actually doing any damage apart from the occasional CC. Admittedly this is highly speculative due to not knowing how viable a tanks damage will be overall Cover/Guard/Aegis? Whatever the game wants to call it. Ashes is positional enough that we'll get one. I'd suggest they make two of these, actually. Is it that weird? No not at all that’s my point exactly there should be more options I’d also take another one of those or even Hate/Aggro building temporary hp for allies in a certain radius
FreeThinker wrote: » But you ironically made my point for me with Your last sentence “ you will want to kill the tanks before killing the healers if this was in place” Sounds like it might not of occurred to you, but that is the exact role of a tank.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Swifty00 wrote: » You could give players a damage bonus when attacking players, who have the most threat on their team. So if a dps generates a lot of threat they become more vulnerable to damage. A tank, by generating a lot more threat than dps or healing, within range, effectively gives everyone an anti-damage buff. With careful balancing it might work. This is not a thought out suggestion. If there was a damage bonus to who ever had the most threat, then you want your DPS to have that and thus a tank is a negative (a damage bonus means dealing more damage - not sure if you are aware of that based on this post). On the other hand, if the character with the most hate had a reduction to incoming damage (what it seems like you were actually trying to suggest), you would want that on your healer, not on your tank - thus still making having a tank an over all negative. Even if a group did have a tank in either of the above scenarios, the opposition side is still best served by just ignoring the tank, as said tank isnt actually able to do anything of concern. In order to make tanks viable in PvP, you need to give the opposition a reason to want to kill them before they go for the healers. The only viable means to do this is to make the healers very hard to kill if there is a tank looking after them. This is why a short duration forced target as the mechanic for a taunt works, you will want to kill the tanks before killing the healers if this was in place. i think he means a damage bonus onto the enemy player who has a higher threat, so you will be doing extra damage when you attack that person. anyways if such thing existed, it could be activated by the tank, not just an automatically damage bonus.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Swifty00 wrote: » You could give players a damage bonus when attacking players, who have the most threat on their team. So if a dps generates a lot of threat they become more vulnerable to damage. A tank, by generating a lot more threat than dps or healing, within range, effectively gives everyone an anti-damage buff. With careful balancing it might work. This is not a thought out suggestion. If there was a damage bonus to who ever had the most threat, then you want your DPS to have that and thus a tank is a negative (a damage bonus means dealing more damage - not sure if you are aware of that based on this post). On the other hand, if the character with the most hate had a reduction to incoming damage (what it seems like you were actually trying to suggest), you would want that on your healer, not on your tank - thus still making having a tank an over all negative. Even if a group did have a tank in either of the above scenarios, the opposition side is still best served by just ignoring the tank, as said tank isnt actually able to do anything of concern. In order to make tanks viable in PvP, you need to give the opposition a reason to want to kill them before they go for the healers. The only viable means to do this is to make the healers very hard to kill if there is a tank looking after them. This is why a short duration forced target as the mechanic for a taunt works, you will want to kill the tanks before killing the healers if this was in place. i think he means a damage bonus onto the enemy player who has a higher threat, so you will be doing extra damage when you attack that person. anyways if such thing existed, it could be activated by the tank, not just an automatically damage bonus. A damage buff where you deal more damage to opponents if the tank has generated more hate on them is something that at least on the surface makes some sense, but from a gameplay perspective is still kind of stupid, and still doesnt alter the desire to go after healers first. The reason it is stupid is because it turns tanks in to DPS buffers in PvP, rather than being actual tanks.
Depraved wrote: » i personally dont think its a good mechanic because it can be abused on so many ways.
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » i personally dont think its a good mechanic because it can be abused on so many ways. Oh, I've not even started with how it could be abused, I'm still looking at how bad it would be if used "as intended". I get he means to have a threat list like you have in PvE, but that still doesnt make any sense. If its designed so that who ever is on top takes more damage, then you are having tanks working hard in order to die easier. All in, its just a really poor idea.
