All 8 archetypes are primarily magic users...

... and I am kinda here for it.

I know, it's not some new, ground-breaking revelation or anything, but the ranger showcase just brought it back in focus for me.

Pretty much all skills but the basic attacks require mana, and they all have spell effects. Sure, the ranger focuses most of their magic around the use of a bow, while the tank focuses it around their sword and shield, for example, but at the end of the day, their skills are all spells that enhance or modify the weapon attack.

The archetypes are divided into Arcane and Martial I know, but that really just defines whether or not their magic use is mostly centered around a traditional weapon or not, and the damage type.

For example, the Rush skill of the fighter isn't just the fighter being really, really fast with superhuman speed, it's a magic skill that momentarily enhances their speed, and combines it with their martial skill and physique to damage and knock down the opponent. Without magic, the fighter simply wouldn't be able to do it.

My point here is mostly that remembering this fact helps me evaluate the different abilities the archetypes get, and not focus on whether or not an arrow can really curve as much as they can in Ashes. They can curve a little in RL too, but magic makes them curve much more in the game.

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Depraved

Nerror wrote: »

... and I am kinda here for it.

The archetypes are divided into Arcane and Martial I know, but that really mostly defines whether or not their magic use is mostly centered around a traditional weapon or not, and the damage type.

id say this is closer to your example with the rush skill.

the ranger uses magic to be able to have a stronger draw, or jump higher, but the arrow is still doing physical damage.

when it gets complicated is when you realize that you can have elemental damage that is either physical or magical.

for example, the warrior spinning so fast he could create a strong wind that sent you flying, would be physical - wind damage, whereas a mage conjuring a strong wind to stab you in the leg or just send you flying as well, would be magic - wind damage.

so im not even gonna bother thinking about the nitty gritty of it, im just gonna accept it as it is.

Depraved

Nerror wrote: »

... and I am kinda here for it.

The archetypes are divided into Arcane and Martial I know, but that really mostly defines whether or not their magic use is mostly centered around a traditional weapon or not, and the damage type.

Ludullu

To me it is simply "everyone uses mana"

Same as it was in L2, so I'm used to it.

nanfoodle

To the statement "whether or not an arrow can really curve as much as they can in Ashes"

https://youtu.be/qc_z4a00cCQ?si=BBjZ4MHgGGjoMLbJ

Nerror

Yeah I've seen that video too.

It's kinda neat. And yeah, we can curve the arrows in Ashes more.

Depraved

nanfoodle wrote: »

To the statement "whether or not an arrow can really curve as much as they can in Ashes"

https://youtu.be/qc_z4a00cCQ?si=BBjZ4MHgGGjoMLbJ

damn thats actually pretty cool. and since we are in verra and not on earth, arrows can curve more

also, @Nerror i think i fked up ur thread by accident lmao. it wouldnt let me post and i kept hitting the post button without reading the warning in red hahaha...then the thread was deleted. now its back and i double posted ughhh

Nerror

Depraved wrote: »

damn thats actually pretty cool. and since we are in verra and not on earth, arrows can curve more

also, @Nerror i think i fked up ur thread by accident lmao. it wouldnt let me post and i kept hitting the post button without reading the warning in red hahaha...then the thread was deleted. now its back and i double posted ughhh

That was probably not you! When I edited a word it sent the post into the moderation queue again, and the whole thread was gone until a mod approved!

They are clearly working behind the scenes to combat that asshat spammer. Maybe the new level system they introduced today is meant to alleviate some of the issues, so they can still control spam without affecting frequent posters.

Enigmatic Sage

All the archetype are magical especially with augmentation options. I believe martial and arcane is essentially just splitting the foundation of attack structure and potential augment school allowances for the archetype.

Most martial class weapons will come from weapon smithing where as arcane will come from arcane forging. This allows them to organise flow charts easier for allowances and hybridisation efficiencies.

Enigmatic Sage

@Nerror looks like im a level 3 now! lol. 4 star was short lived... LOL

Veeshan

Arcane school aka mages = has the ability to manafest mana outside the body aka spells
Martial uses aka fighters and so on = can manafest mana internally to boost physical capability (aka martial arts Ki and so on)
They have to use mana tbh because for example fighter with mage subclass what resource do you do there give them 2 rage for melee skills then mana for spells from mage archtype, no that silly use mana fighter use mana internally and if the secondary class a mage class they can start to manafest it externally and vice versa

Tyranthraxus

I don't want to sound vulgar, but....

The Goddess of Creation will be sticking her Essence into everyone. Wether you're a big, macho Tank or a sickly, frail Mage, her white stuff will be in ALL of our bodies!

Sathrago

magic makes melee classes super strong.

So give us big ass weapons. Now.

Depraved

[

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

I don't want to sound vulgar, but....

The Goddess of Creation will be sticking her Essence into everyone. Wether you're a big, macho Tank or a sickly, frail Mage, her white stuff will be in ALL of our bodies!

lmaooo

wait how do you know essence is white? i imagined it more as blueish, and red when corrupted.

Scarctic

essence in opposition to the void, black space devoid of essence is pure magic, pure things without any contamination are commonly portrayed as white. If you have other spectrums of colors in it it isn't pure anymore. That's my assumption about this and why most gods and holy elements have white in them or yellow for the life-giving sun.

Mag7spy

magic is cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnFcNQP9_4U

Smaashley

Mana bar is very basic and effortless. In my opinion, every archetype should have a different resource management and complexity.

Yuyukoyay

I don't think different resource types truly adds anything to a game anyway. Mana was originally contrived as a resource to spend abilities. Melee classes always bypassed this for no reason until more modern takes on games. There is nothing wrong with every class being magical in nature as long as class fantasy is fulfilled.

Class Fantasy shouldn't be enforced over gameplay consideration though. You can still differ the classes by how big their mana pools can get, different ways to regenerate mana, different ways to use it, and all sorts of other things. Thus different resources was always pointless. It is also easier to balance if everyone uses the same resource.

You don't have to worry about Warriors not having abilities until they start fighting. In which they are generally kited anyway and generate less resources than other classes by nature of those systems. If everyone uses mana it becomes about how to upkeep their jobs through that resource instead of how they are going to generate it to even fight to begin with.

D&D didn't even use mana. You got a specific amount of spellcasts per day and that was it. Different classes could influence this system a little bit, but there was no difference in resources each class had. They still all played completely different because resources were always just a justification to make stuff work as a game and nothing else.

Mag7spy

Smaashley wrote: »

Mana bar is very basic and effortless. In my opinion, every archetype should have a different resource management and complexity.

Naa they need to focus complexity on the actual classes. Different resources and different resource management is a utter waste of time.

This is one of those suggestions people say while not really knowing what they actually want and again adding bloat that will take away from the game. Mana and stamina are only resources needed.

Enigmatic Sage

Smaashley wrote: »

Mana bar is very basic and effortless. In my opinion, every archetype should have a different resource management and complexity.

same shit coloured and named differently

But I suppose they could try something with more depth that utilises the resource differently.

Scarctic

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I don't think different resource types truly adds anything to a game anyway. Mana was originally contrived as a resource to spend abilities. Melee classes always bypassed this for no reason until more modern takes on games. There is nothing wrong with every class being magical in nature as long as class fantasy is fulfilled.

Class Fantasy shouldn't be enforced over gameplay consideration though. You can still differ the classes by how big their mana pools can get, different ways to regenerate mana, different ways to use it, and all sorts of other things. Thus different resources was always pointless. It is also easier to balance if everyone uses the same resource.

You don't have to worry about Warriors not having abilities until they start fighting. In which they are generally kited anyway and generate less resources than other classes by nature of those systems. If everyone uses mana it becomes about how to upkeep their jobs through that resource instead of how they are going to generate it to even fight to begin with.

D&D didn't even use mana. You got a specific amount of spellcasts per day and that was it. Different classes could influence this system a little bit, but there was no difference in resources each class had. They still all played completely different because resources were always just a justification to make stuff work as a game and nothing else.

If they do every archetype like the cleric with the additional resource but with their own building and spending method tailored for the combat kits.
No primary used skills get gated out of the question.

Also, I liked the way LOTRO had morale for HP and power for MP. It made more sense to me that people run out of morale to fight and out of power to cast abilities because power could be seen used by physical classes and magic users. Bards who healed with motivation and music made more sense and faith raises morale in RL so it could be applied to clerics too.^^

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