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Let's talk lighting
Snekkers
Member
Lighting plays a crucial role in the visual appeal of Ashes of Creation, aligning with the game's goal of achieving realistic and authentic graphics. The excitement peaked among players when Intrepid Studios transitioned the project to Unreal Engine 5 two years ago, promising cutting-edge technology for the game. Initially, the visuals seemed promising, but over this period, the anticipated quality appears to have diminished for reasons that are not immediately clear. In this discussion, I aim to articulate the issue, explore potential causes, and consider potential solutions.
Lighting 2 years ago
Remember when we got our first taste of Unreal Engine 5 on that livestream in December 2021? The lighting in the gameplay looked pretty darn good, right? My guess is Intrepid cranked up Lumen to the max for that, but I'll get back to that later. If you take a close look, it's not like the textures and models are mind-blowingly better in those screenshots. It's just that the lighting makes the whole scene pop and look way cooler.
Best visual showcase - Weather
The graphics hit their high point in Ashes of Creation during that weather showcase in May 2022. Seriously, look at the environments – the particles, textures, and lighting just make those screens pop. But let's zoom in on the lighting talk. Shadows in broad daylight aren't usually pitch black; light bounces around, making shadows softer. Take a peek at the first screenshot – no super dark spots, and the character's shadow is there but not too in-your-face. Unfortunately, it's just because it's a good shot. Now, in the second screenshot, you've got moments with pure black voids and lots of really dark shadows. The ground is even throwing some black shadows on itself, if you can believe it.
|Lighting evolution since then
On one of the recent streams, the Node showcase from August 2023, it seems like the lighting took a bit of a nosedive. I mean, all the shadows are crazy dark for some reason. Everything is either super bright or almost pitch black, and it's not a great look. And it's not just the environmental lighting that's off now. Check out the third screenshot – the point lights from the village lanterns are barely giving off any light, and what little it does emit hardly spreads into the surroundings. I've got a theory on why that might be, but we'll get into that a bit later.
The glimpse of hope
On the latest stream, the winter scene gives me a glimmer of hope. The lighting is still a bit wonky, with hardly any shadows and everything looking very rough, nothing appears to have any smoothness, which isn't the case in real life (check out the first two screenshots for what I mean). But the shadows we do see seem okay; it looks like maybe some light bounced around to make them brighter. Is that what's happening? I'm not sure, but hey, as long as it looks good, right?
My reasoning behind what's going on
I believe Intrepid Studios initially showcased the Unreal Engine 5 video with Lumen set to max, but it looks like they might have realized it's too heavy on performance. Since then, they've likely scaled down the settings significantly or even turned it off completely. Until the recent stream this month, it seemed like light wasn't bouncing at all. All the spell and point light effects came off as basic and kinda rough. Shadows were super dark and not great. However, in this stream, it looks like the shadows got some improvement, so my guess is that new lighting engineers are still getting the hang of things in the project.
It's worth noting that Lumen isn't essential for achieving good-looking realistic graphics – plenty of other games didn't use it. With the new employees Intrepid has brought on board and the signs that lighting is slowly getting better, I'm optimistic that during Alpha 2, Intrepid might just surprise us with a new level of game quality we didn't think we'd get.
Lighting 2 years ago
Remember when we got our first taste of Unreal Engine 5 on that livestream in December 2021? The lighting in the gameplay looked pretty darn good, right? My guess is Intrepid cranked up Lumen to the max for that, but I'll get back to that later. If you take a close look, it's not like the textures and models are mind-blowingly better in those screenshots. It's just that the lighting makes the whole scene pop and look way cooler.
Best visual showcase - Weather
The graphics hit their high point in Ashes of Creation during that weather showcase in May 2022. Seriously, look at the environments – the particles, textures, and lighting just make those screens pop. But let's zoom in on the lighting talk. Shadows in broad daylight aren't usually pitch black; light bounces around, making shadows softer. Take a peek at the first screenshot – no super dark spots, and the character's shadow is there but not too in-your-face. Unfortunately, it's just because it's a good shot. Now, in the second screenshot, you've got moments with pure black voids and lots of really dark shadows. The ground is even throwing some black shadows on itself, if you can believe it.
|Lighting evolution since then
On one of the recent streams, the Node showcase from August 2023, it seems like the lighting took a bit of a nosedive. I mean, all the shadows are crazy dark for some reason. Everything is either super bright or almost pitch black, and it's not a great look. And it's not just the environmental lighting that's off now. Check out the third screenshot – the point lights from the village lanterns are barely giving off any light, and what little it does emit hardly spreads into the surroundings. I've got a theory on why that might be, but we'll get into that a bit later.
The glimpse of hope
On the latest stream, the winter scene gives me a glimmer of hope. The lighting is still a bit wonky, with hardly any shadows and everything looking very rough, nothing appears to have any smoothness, which isn't the case in real life (check out the first two screenshots for what I mean). But the shadows we do see seem okay; it looks like maybe some light bounced around to make them brighter. Is that what's happening? I'm not sure, but hey, as long as it looks good, right?
My reasoning behind what's going on
I believe Intrepid Studios initially showcased the Unreal Engine 5 video with Lumen set to max, but it looks like they might have realized it's too heavy on performance. Since then, they've likely scaled down the settings significantly or even turned it off completely. Until the recent stream this month, it seemed like light wasn't bouncing at all. All the spell and point light effects came off as basic and kinda rough. Shadows were super dark and not great. However, in this stream, it looks like the shadows got some improvement, so my guess is that new lighting engineers are still getting the hang of things in the project.
It's worth noting that Lumen isn't essential for achieving good-looking realistic graphics – plenty of other games didn't use it. With the new employees Intrepid has brought on board and the signs that lighting is slowly getting better, I'm optimistic that during Alpha 2, Intrepid might just surprise us with a new level of game quality we didn't think we'd get.
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Comments
Im actually under the same impression.
Let me add to your examples.
Bdo armor
Ashes armor
Though i think the bdo armor is a bit too shiny, bdo´s lighting gives the player a better perception of the depth and the layers of the armor.
August showcase was an improvement in Contrast lighting, but the black is too black. Hogwarts Legacy did a great job finding a good balance there.
yep, it looks much better there. Obviously its not just because of lighting, but I think its a big part of the issue.
• Strong shadows/dark areas could work, but those look like the contrast was simply turned up, which flattened the colors and removed a lot of detail, giving it that beginner's-horror-game look. Though if they want to keep the darkness then you could keep the detail at the same time, just with some more advanced post-processing.
• Diffuse looks as if it was baked on a single bounce, which is fine if that's the case, otherwise that's kinda worrying? Also could help to use L1 lightmaps.
• I think that new snowy area looks really good at a glance, but then... I have trouble with this one. Diffuse is probably ok? A satisfying specular is definitely missing, but there's still something holding it back for me up close... Might be the assets, in which case that's hardly a concern right now probably.
I totally agree, they need to figure stuff out and i hope new graphic engineers will get it done
I'm sure they are in the process of working on things again, don't expect a final result. They have mentioned about making things darker and such showing they are doing experiments to find what they want.
This is live development things can be broken, unfinished, clearly not polished. Lighting /post process was one of the last things in the pipeline for my department. You are cherry picking a bit to hard for a alpha imo if you are going right to lighting (that is very clearly not finished).
Darkness is infinite. Light is a wave of spectrum. Combination is the nuance.
Yes, true dark does exist. It's called pitch dark meaning the absence of light.
Lighting
- Time of day (location of main light source volume and distribution effects imitating)
- Weather ( over cast, clear skies, intermittent vs constant)
- Season (day light and night time durations vary which affect intensity variables)
- Biome (self explanatory)
- Flora types (grasses, bushes, shrubs, trees... they all can be affected by winter differently)
In Relation to the armour
You're comparing a highly reflective polished alloy surface vs a leather and furs besides the obvious level of detail prior to graphical setting and polishing.
Other than that
well, yes, it's an alpha, but im providing feedback, im not saying the game is trash and i dont expect them to fix lighting by the start of alpha 2
sure there are different components, but im not sure what you mean in your comment, so i will just say that none of that excuses poor lighting quality
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I'm not sure if that's the case really, it appears that very shadowy areas are as dark as in the night, look at this part on the left in isolation, you would think its a very dark night.
I think that this might (MIGHT!) be the case. I know Warframe has a similar graphic setting that I constantly turn off. x']
Speaking of light and darkness - I kind of had the same negative feeling when they showcased the new night features (aka, darkness) and I must say that unlike most people (I think?) I was not very happy with it. The darkness felt almost suffocating, like it was eating away at the light sources rather than the opposite. And I am not by any means against darker night time, but then they'll have to provide a bit softer edges from the light to dark, and good access to light sources for players. And I can't help but wonder; what about dark vision for certain races? In TTRPGs, humans might be just about blind in darkness, but elves can see rather well - and dwarves and races that live underground have extremely good dark vision... Some races (like drows in DnD) have dark vision to the point that they see better during night time than day time.
Now, adding stuff like that might cause obvious issues when it comes to gameplay balance and player comfort - but having a tulnar being as blind as a mole in the night darkness just feels extremely off to me.