Voeltz wrote: » My post got flagged for review for like 5 days because I decided to edit..so I'm going to bump this..
Voeltz wrote: » Noaani wrote: » [ On the other hand, if I bet 10,000 gold in a duel with you and lose, that doesn't trigger that same flag. It will literally go undetected by Intrepid, because it is the system functioning as the system should function. Now, someone may want to say "just look at the people that are losing large amounts of coin all the time" - but there is an issue with this. If I am selling gold on a website, I am buying it from players that have more than they need. WIth this system in place, I'd be using it to buy gold off of other players by beating them in a duel by arraingment for a set amount of coin. Then I would make the same arraingment with gold buyers hours, days or weeks later where we duel for a pre-determined amount, and they win. To Intrepid, this looks exactly like someone that won a duel, then lost a duel. There is nothing to flag here, and thus nothing at all to look in to. You are absolutely right that it is on developers to prevent RMT. However, one of the key things they do to prevent it (those that care, at least) is they avoid putting in systems that allow for unfettered RMT such as this. Now, If Intrepid came out and said they think they have a system that could detect RMT with a system like this, great, have at it. However, I doubt that this is possible. You don't know that. Just because it's not flagged in Albion does not mean it will work the same way in Ashes, they're 2 different games. Someone losing 10,000 gold once in a duel could be legit, maybe even a few times, but it's also suspicious behavior. The average player will not be gambling their entire net worth repeatedly or on one duel. It's all about patterns. All of that information can be tracked/logged. Someone involved in RMT will be making these sort of transactions consistently. Wagering is a type of transaction which is not immune to being monitored. It is 100% traceable. Again, this is an issue of the developer understanding how to prevent it and whether they are committed.
Noaani wrote: » [ On the other hand, if I bet 10,000 gold in a duel with you and lose, that doesn't trigger that same flag. It will literally go undetected by Intrepid, because it is the system functioning as the system should function. Now, someone may want to say "just look at the people that are losing large amounts of coin all the time" - but there is an issue with this. If I am selling gold on a website, I am buying it from players that have more than they need. WIth this system in place, I'd be using it to buy gold off of other players by beating them in a duel by arraingment for a set amount of coin. Then I would make the same arraingment with gold buyers hours, days or weeks later where we duel for a pre-determined amount, and they win. To Intrepid, this looks exactly like someone that won a duel, then lost a duel. There is nothing to flag here, and thus nothing at all to look in to. You are absolutely right that it is on developers to prevent RMT. However, one of the key things they do to prevent it (those that care, at least) is they avoid putting in systems that allow for unfettered RMT such as this. Now, If Intrepid came out and said they think they have a system that could detect RMT with a system like this, great, have at it. However, I doubt that this is possible.
Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Voeltz wrote: » My post got flagged for review for like 5 days because I decided to edit..so I'm going to bump this.. it's a messed up system. I got flagged for the same thing too but i could still go post in other thread just as much if not more... lol. May as well just get twitch chat bots to mod the forums at this rate.
Noaani wrote: » Don't take this the wrong way, but this post suggests a complete lack of understanding of RMT in MMO's. Most RMT transactions are about what an average player could earn in three days. This is an amount average players absolutely would be happy to gamble. More top tier players would happily gamble 10 times that, which is why average RMT transactions can be easily hidden in such systems. The other thing to keep in mind (and this happens A LOT in Albion from what I have been told) is that people will buy coin specifically just to gamble in this manner. This means you can't even just follow a specific pile of coin, as there would be no way to know who in the chain of bets bought and sold it, and who won legitimately. The simple fact is, with any given duel - even just for 10 gold, Intrepid have no way of telling if it was an actual fight, or if it was half of an RMT transaction. Literally no way of telling. Games that have gambling systems like this simply do not monitor them for RMT - they cant. RMT sellers can very easily just mimic the patterns of legit players - it isnt at all hard to do. You are mistaken if you think developers are unaware that systems like this open their game up to unfettered RMT.
Voeltz wrote: » The gold seller would have to be losing in order to transfer the gold to their customer.
Noaani wrote: » Now, someone may want to say "just look at the people that are losing large amounts of coin all the time" - but there is an issue with this. If I am selling gold on a website, I am buying it from players that have more than they need. WIth this system in place, I'd be using it to buy gold off of other players by beating them in a duel by arraingment for a set amount of coin. Then I would make the same arraingment with gold buyers hours, days or weeks later where we duel for a pre-determined amount, and they win.
Noaani wrote: » Voeltz wrote: » The gold seller would have to be losing in order to transfer the gold to their customer. I stopped reading your post right here, because you are making an argument here that I have already debunked. Noaani wrote: » Now, someone may want to say "just look at the people that are losing large amounts of coin all the time" - but there is an issue with this. If I am selling gold on a website, I am buying it from players that have more than they need. WIth this system in place, I'd be using it to buy gold off of other players by beating them in a duel by arraingment for a set amount of coin. Then I would make the same arraingment with gold buyers hours, days or weeks later where we duel for a pre-determined amount, and they win. You even quoted me saying this - why are you making this argument when I have already pointed out why it is an invalid argument? Again, this just shows a lack of understanding of how gold sellers actuay work. I'd even wager you think that people selling gold to players in MMO's arerunning bots or some such. The reality is they are gold traders, buying off players that have more gold than they need, and selling to others that want more gold than they have. What this means is that RMT sellers would have a w\l ratio that is really close to 50\50. Win the fight to buy the gold off one player, lose a fight to sell it to another. As for your comments on the number of transactions - with Ashes server population size, lack of fast travel and spread of population, I would imagine a gold seller would want a character per greater metropolis region they are servicing. With a population of perhaps a few thousand players total in that area, and with probably three or four active sellers, I would expect perhaps 2 or 3 sales a week per character. If you think that number of fights will trigger anything on Intrepids end, then I'm not sure quite how to continue this discussion. You are right in saying that it doesnt allow RMT any more than player to player trading does. However, my point has always been that player trading when does legitimately is fairly even and so one sided trades are very easy to find - while the inherent nature of betting on player actions is that one side will win, and players can decide which side that is. Thus, it makes RMT basically impossible to detect. Your whole point about RMT being like a drug and needing to go after whoever is equally besides the point. In orderto go after an RMT seller, you need to be able to find them. How do you even start to look for one via this system when their w\l ratio is near 50\50, and they are coming out about even on profit from these fights? There is nothing in that for a system to flag, and if a system can't flag it, no one is looking at it. That is why this isnt an issue with trades, there is always something to flag.
Voeltz wrote: » By your own admission you haven't been reading what I've said previously
kuldar1994 wrote: » If it's difficult to implement betting system, perhaps skip that and have just in-node arena where people can practice fighting and sign up for weekly tournaments where it's possible to win points or rewards to collect maybe like specific arena armor similar to how kingdom come deliverance did it for example.
Vaknar wrote: » Interesting thought starter, @Therealdo Thinking of different ways to incorporate PvP and the ethos of battle or bloodthirst into the military nodes is an interesting topic to brainstorm on! What are different ways you'd like to see PvP be a part of military nodes?
