DPS Meter Megathread

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Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Maybe even 'try not to change your build too much unless you're hard stuck'.

Yep, that's the current plan. I hope I'll be done with new genshin region tomorrow, so AC6 is probs friday onwards.

Azherae wrote: »

If you want a 2 hour log, though, lmk (it covers a single teamfight situation in Pred)

For now no, but if this convo comes up again in the future (hope it doesn't at least until A2) - then I'll probably try to learn more/better once again.

Dygz

Azherae wrote: »

If you want a complex game, you need it to be true that simplification can't consistently lead to succeeding. And in this type of game you need the statistics, and the statistics are low on the 'list of things you can see'.

Azherae wrote: »

Also, before we go in any weird directions, remember two things.
2) It's not that absolutely no one can do it, it's that it's genetic lottery if you can do it or not, and trackers are the solution to this that is employed to even the playing field and foster camraderie.

This is the 'danger' of not including them if you want a complex game.

Yes. And...

I don't want MMORPGs to be so complex that players feel compelled to rely on combat trackers...
Making them focused on Rollplay rather than Roleplay.

Different builds should be able to defeat the same challenge.
It should not require just one META to defeat even the toughest challenge.
And it should be fine for different groups to defeat the same challenge at different speeds - might take some several tries and others just one attempt.
And there should also be an expectation that strategies and tactics will need to be adjusted when a new person with a different build joins (or replaces someone in) the group.

Azherae

Dygz wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you want a complex game, you need it to be true that simplification can't consistently lead to succeeding. And in this type of game you need the statistics, and the statistics are low on the 'list of things you can see'.

Azherae wrote: »

Also, before we go in any weird directions, remember two things.
2) It's not that absolutely no one can do it, it's that it's genetic lottery if you can do it or not, and trackers are the solution to this that is employed to even the playing field and foster camraderie.

This is the 'danger' of not including them if you want a complex game.

Yes. And...

I don't want MMORPGs to be so complex that players feel compelled to rely on combat trackers...
Making them focused on Rollplay rather than Roleplay.

Different builds should be able to defeat the same challenge.
It should not require just one META to defeat even the toughest challenge.
And it should be fine for different groups to defeat the same challenge at different speeds - might take some several tries and others just one attempt.
And there should also be an expectation that strategies and tactics will need to be adjusted when a new person with a different build joins (or replaces someone in) the group.

Right, and I totally understand that. Different games should appeal to different levels of complexity and styles of content. The problem with Steven's initial approaches to both of these things is only that the goals of Ashes are unclear.

Btw NiKr, this is why FFXI is designed the way it is, Dygz would be happy there, because there are mechanics meant to help a LOT with being able to take things on at different paces, as described, without tearing apart all the underlying structures.

But relative to this specific tangent of this eternal thread, there's a difference between 'complexity' and 'data overload'. A game can have a high amount of 'incoming data', and the difference would not 'force you to use a tracker'. It would cause you to take 10x as long as someone like me, or someone with a Tracker, but it would not become impossible by any means.

And the fun part of MMOs (in terms of overcoming challenges) would be LARGER for you than for me. You would 'discuss with your teammates how to beat the challenge and what you observed when you didn't beat it', same as me, I just would do it faster.

The problematic people are 'the people trying to keep up with me, who then decide that using a Tracker is the best option'.

Making the game less complex OVERALL (not the data heavy type) would just decrease synergies and fun, making individual players irrelevant and replaceable. This is a huge danger, in my opinion. When challenges are too easy (because of low data density), many people don't have a reason to care who they group with, because there's no real adaptation to do.

In my experience, this leads to toxicity. It's worse when it's not actually too easy but a lot of people think it is because it's easy for someone else. It really sucks to be a player like yourself in games like that.

People who have 'static groups' or longstanding comrades who already know their quirks, don't have this problem, they just tear through the content either way and just ignore other players. Because it's literally better for them, with their limited time, to entirely skip a boss battle if one person is missing, than to try to get through it with a different person, sometimes even within their own guild. It's really sad.

At least with data-complex stuff, people can enjoy just chatting about the data and how it relates to their groups. As it degrades, you get the other situation where people go 'well every Warrior should do the same thing in this fight, so I don't need to talk to you, go watch the YouTube guide on what you're supposed to do, then show up and try not to screw it up'.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

But I've watched a few EQ2 raids, and they don't match Noaani's explanations. Now, Noaani has stated before that the most difficult bosses weren't even recorded really, so maybe I've only seen the lvl of stuff that you just described

This may or may not help, but it is worth a try.

If you can give me the names of some of the encounters you have watched (or just links to them), if they were encounters that were in the game when I played, I could point out to you whether they were low, mid or top tier. I could also potentially point out other things such as if the video in question was taken while the encounter was current content or not.

Dygz

Azherae wrote: »

And the fun part of MMOs (in terms of overcoming challenges) would be LARGER for you than for me. You would 'discuss with your teammates how to beat the challenge and what you observed when you didn't beat it', same as me, I just would do it faster.

The problematic people are 'the people trying to keep up with me, who then decide that using a Tracker is the best option'....

The toxic gamers relying on DPS Meters to kick the weak link are typically striving to META/speed run bosses in order to disseminate BiS gear as quickly as possible.
I suppose they might also be striving to maintain top spots on the "Top-End Raider" Leaderboards.
Which, again, is better suited to other genres, like E-Sports and Shooters than RPGs.

I'd prefer to have players killing bosses because that's what's best for the narrative of the server, rather than because that's what rewards players with BiS gear or rewards top player trophies.
Now that I think about - it's probably why Steven's obsession with Risk v Reward (which seems to have kicked into high gear after Jeffrey Bard left) is also negative hype for me.

With the Ashes Class and Augments system - synergizing Active Skills and Augments with pary members should not be Rocket Science - and should not require a Combat Tracker.
Also, shouldn't require all Warriors to have the exact same Augments on their Active Skills.

A Ranger/Ranger's Barrage (Arrows) should be as effective as a Ranger/Rogue's Barrage (Throwing Knives) or a Ranger/Mage's Barrage (Hail) - that could be without Augments. Even without Augments, those versions of Barrage might have different Damage Types (Nature/Poison/Frost) and dictate who else in the Party the Ranger typically tries to synergize with.
Shouldn't take a Combat Tracker to realize that it might be a great tactic to have the Scout enhance the Poison Damage of the Assassin.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I'd prefer to have players killing bosses because that's what's best for the narrative of the server, rather than because that's what rewards players with BiS gear or rewards top player trophies.
Now that I think about - it's probably why Steven's obsession with Risk v Reward (which seems to have kicked into high gear after Jeffrey Bard left) is also negative hype for me.

Again, you seem to be missing the point of diversity in an MMO.

Even from an RP perspective, if you take a world of ten thousand or more players, there SHOULD be some out there that are going off doing what is most benefitial for them - not what is best for the story of that world.

What is best for the game, and for each individual server, and for any given players personal RP, is for each player on the server to have their own motivation - not to share some common motivation.

If me and my friends decide that we don't really care about the thing you want us to care about, and instead we want to go off and better ourselves so that we are better prepared the next time our node is under siege or attacked by a dragon or we want to kill the guy picking *OUR* flowers, that makes the world more real.

Shouldn't take a Combat Tracker to realize that it might be a great tactic to have the Scout enhance the Poison Damage of the Assassin.

In isolation, probably not.

However, what is the made has taken Rogue as secondary, and so has many of their spells able to be augmented to deal poison damage? How much of an effect will that scouts enhance poison damage have on those spells? WIll it be more benefitial on that Shadowcaster, or on the Assassin?

What if the Shadowcater then gets a buff from a bard that increases their cast speed? This makes it more worthwhile to put that poison damage on the Shadowcaster. On the other hand, if the Assassin gets a buff that adds additional ticks to their poison damage DoT's, perhaps it is worth putting it back on the Assassin. But then what if the Shadow Caster has joined the Thieves guild and that gives them access to an augment that increases the rate at which poison DoT's tick, meaning they deal their damage faster and so can be reapplied faster, but means the character has to spend more of their time in combat refreshing that ability? What if one of the other player has a slightly slower connection to the server that causes a few issues with reapplying DoT's?

At what point does it become worth putting that enhance poison on the Assassin or the Shadow Mage?

If you ask really simple questions, then the answers are obvious. It is when those questions get more complex - get more real world - that you need more data if you want a proper answer.

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

Again, you seem to be missing the point of diversity in an MMO.

Even from an RP perspective, if you take a world of ten thousand or more players, there SHOULD be some out there that are going off doing what is most benefitial for them - not what is best for the story of that world.

Again, you are paraphrasing what I actually wrote and then arguing a strawman of what I did not write.
From a Roleplaying perspective, some player characters will likely be doing what is best for themselves rather than what is best for the world - and can do so while focused on the narrative rather than the numerical, (OOC) META.
It cannot be that from a Roleplaying perspective some characters are striving to focus on the data from Combat Trackers.
Sure, part of the narrative of a server will be that some player characters are working toward the destruction of Verra. Some player characters will be intent on causing strife for the world, rather than benefitting the health of the world.
Which is still being focused on the narrative of the server, rather than the OOC META of gameplay.

More importantly, I'm talking about how the game is designed.
An RPG should be designed to have players focused on the Roleplay more than the Rollplay.
Of course, there will be some players trying to play their own way, sometimes playing against the design of the game.
Even I am no longer planning to play according to Steven's vision of the game -I'm just going to explore rather than pursue any progression paths- that doesn't mean I'm advocating for the design to be changed to accommodate my playstyle preferences.
Just, in the case of DPS Meters, I happen to agree with Steven's vision.

Noaani wrote: »

...what is the made has taken Rogue as secondary, and so has many of their spells able to be augmented to deal poison damage? How much of an effect will that scouts enhance poison damage have on those spells? WIll it be more benefitial on that Shadowcaster, or on the Assassin?

Your grammar is too garbled for me to understand what you are asking:
What if the Mage has Rogue as Secondary and many of their Active Skills are Augmented with Poison?
If the Scout has Augmented their Active Skills with Poison, their Damage Types will stack if the Scout and Shadowcaster work with each other to stack Poison Damage.
How beneficial it might be with a Shadowcaster or Assassin depends on how frequently they choose to synergize their effects.
Doesn't really matter if it's "more effective" on the Shadowcaster or the Assassin. What matters is that it can be significantly effective to synergize with either or both. If both are in the same Party as a Scout.
And we shouldn't have to rely on a Combat Tracker to realize that those synergies will be effective.
(Or non-effective if the opponents are resistant to Poison.)

Sure. There will be other variables where one might choose to synergize with different x/Rogues in the group - if the group has multiple x/Rogues.
And still should not need a Combat Tracker to determine that. Most likely, that group's focus on Poison Damage will make relying on a Combat Tracker moot.

Of course, it could also be that the Scout synergizes Shadow Damage with the Shadowcaster and Poison Damage with the Assassin. And still, one should not need to rely on a Combat Tracker to determine that.
You've done a poor job of explaining how I've failed to factor in the diversity available in a well-designed (MMO)RPG.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Again, you seem to be missing the point of diversity in an MMO.

Even from an RP perspective, if you take a world of ten thousand or more players, there SHOULD be some out there that are going off doing what is most benefitial for them - not what is best for the story of that world.

Again, you are paraphrasing what I actually wrote and then arguing a strawman of what I did not write.
From a Roleplaying perspective, some player characters will likely be doing what is best for themselves rather than what is best for the world - and can do so while focused on the narrative rather than the numerical, (OOC) META.
It cannot be that from a Roleplaying perspective some characters are striving to focus on the data from Combat Trackers.

Sure it can.

If I lived in a world where I was fighting for my life many times a day (even if I was bring brought back), and where gear increased my success rate in these many fights, you had better believe I would put all the time and effort in to trying to learn as much about all of this as I could. I would want to know what any enemy would likely do, what any item I could get would allow me to do, what any of my friends could do, etc. I would strive for knowledge and understanding at as deep a level as I can for all of this.

What doesn't make sense - as an example - is someone being in the position where they are in these fights many times a day, and when it comes to the weapon and armor and such they have, just deciding that some random thing will do because they like how it looks. That is a tool that you are using to fight for you life, and you are picking it based on aesthetics, and you want to make out that this is good roleplay? That this is the decision your character would make?

A combat tracker is how players recieve information that our characters would have - or our collective characters would have in the case of a group or a raid. It is the metaphhorical having a drink after the fight to discuss how things went (in some cases, it is the literal having a drink after the fight to discuss how things went).

Now, you could well make an argument that we shouldn't need it, that this should all be in the game itself - and I agree and have been making that argument in this thread for years. If it isn't though, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have that information.

Doesn't really matter if it's "more effective" on the Shadowcaster or the Assassin. What matters is that it can be significantly effective to synergize with either or both. If both are in the same Party as a Scout.
And we shouldn't have to rely on a Combat Tracker to realize that those synergies will be effective.

Dude, your fighting for your life (or your character is).

If you are roleplaying, it should matter to you. It sure as hell would matter to your character. Just being effective isn't enough when there is the option to be more effecting and potentially not die. This should actually matter more to someone that is trying to play as their character than someone that is just playing.

Again, the notion that a person in the situation that our characters are in would just bumble their way through things the way RP'ers seem to want to RP is just so far off that it is amusing.

Mag7spy

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

rikardp98

Mag7spy wrote: »

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

Why is your RP better than someone else's RP?

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

Mag7spy

rikardp98 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

Why is your RP better than someone else's RP?

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

This sounds like children saying they are rping while holding the monster manual and listing everything off about every encounter and what they are weak to.

Eventually there is a point where you are not actually rping and just doing what you want.

Dygz

rikardp98 wrote: »

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

It really has nothing to do with whether or not Noaani's preferred playstyle is "wrong".
What matters is whether it fits with the goals of the Ashes game design.
"Ashes is not made for everyone."

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

Why is your RP better than someone else's RP?

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

This sounds like children saying they are rping while holding the monster manual and listing everything off about every encounter and what they are weak to.

To me, that just sounds like RP'ing a professional.

As I said earlier, if I was my character, in that world, and I was an adventurer, you had better believe that is what I would do.

I mean, that is what I do with my real profession, and my previous profession, so why would I not do that if my profession was life or death?

It is the notion that this CAN'T be good RP that is just blatantly wrong. Not all RP needs to consist of bumbling idiots - sometimes our characters can be competent at what they do.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

Why is your RP better than someone else's RP?

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

This sounds like children saying they are rping while holding the monster manual and listing everything off about every encounter and what they are weak to.

To me, that just sounds like RP'ing a professional.

As I said earlier, if I was my character, in that world, and I was an adventurer, you had better believe that is what I would do.

I mean, that is what I do with my real profession, and my previous profession, so why would I not do that if my profession was life or death?

It is the notion that this CAN'T be good RP that is just blatantly wrong. Not all RP needs to consist of bumbling idiots - sometimes our characters can be competent at what they do.

This isn't a isekai though you aren't going to get that kind of op power. If you are roleplaying that character you are going to be normal and not knowing all information you are going to have to figure things out as you go through it. And if you die its the end.

It has nothing to do with being bumbling idiots, its about you are exploring a world and encountering things for the first time. So you have that kind of alien feeling to the world and sense of danger.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

Why is your RP better than someone else's RP?

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

This sounds like children saying they are rping while holding the monster manual and listing everything off about every encounter and what they are weak to.

To me, that just sounds like RP'ing a professional.

As I said earlier, if I was my character, in that world, and I was an adventurer, you had better believe that is what I would do.

I mean, that is what I do with my real profession, and my previous profession, so why would I not do that if my profession was life or death?

It is the notion that this CAN'T be good RP that is just blatantly wrong. Not all RP needs to consist of bumbling idiots - sometimes our characters can be competent at what they do.

This isn't a isekai though you aren't going to get that kind of op power. If you are roleplaying that character you are going to be normal and not knowing all information you are going to have to figure things out as you go through it. And if you die its the end.

I'm not sure what kind of op power it is you are talking about here.

If I were roleplaying a character they wouldn't know the information - this part is correct. Until, that is, they do.

Since using a combat tracker only gives me data on fights I am participating in, I am learning that information at the same time my character would. It isn't as if the first time seeing a wyrven or some shit my tracker could tell me what it does - it can only ever tell me what it has already done to me, and my character would know that.

It has nothing to do with being bumbling idiots, its about you are exploring a world and encountering things for the first time. So you have that kind of alien feeling to the world and sense of danger.

Yeah, the difference being as I explore the world, I pay attention to it. As per the above, I as a player can't use a tracker to learn anything that my character hasn't experienced - thus I am learning at the appropriate pace.

At the absolute best, your argument could apply to alts.

Depraved

Noaani wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

The model would work for all competitive games.
The link Mag7Spy posted was about LoL

Yes, the MSI monitor was showcasing it's AI ability in LoL.

However, the notion of players needing to get up, out of their house, across town to some specific location to just play an MMORPG is going to kill MMORPG's. It works in South Korea, but that is because that has been the culture there for generations (in MMO terms).

The reason people care about LoL is because millions of peope play it every day. Millions of people are not going to play it if they need to go to psecific, certified places to do so. At least not in the west.

well, back in the day, people played ragnarok online at cybercafes in latinamerica. this was very common. also in the phillipines. i know people who still play games in cyber cafes, and some of those games are mmorpg (although they arent as popular as before). hell, i even know people who dont own a computer (they have phones and consoles though, and some dont even have those).

id say that it wouldnt work in usa, but it would in latin america (thats part of the west, and we have more people than usa). some people even go to cyber cafes and play not because they cant play at home, but because they can hang out with friends while playing. its a social activity.

with that being said, i dont want games to be limited to cyber cafes only, i wanna be able to play at home.

Noaani

Depraved wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

The model would work for all competitive games.
The link Mag7Spy posted was about LoL

Yes, the MSI monitor was showcasing it's AI ability in LoL.

However, the notion of players needing to get up, out of their house, across town to some specific location to just play an MMORPG is going to kill MMORPG's. It works in South Korea, but that is because that has been the culture there for generations (in MMO terms).

The reason people care about LoL is because millions of peope play it every day. Millions of people are not going to play it if they need to go to psecific, certified places to do so. At least not in the west.

well, back in the day, people played ragnarok online at cybercafes in latinamerica. this was very common. also in the phillipines. i know people who still play games in cyber cafes, and some of those games are mmorpg (although they arent as popular as before). hell, i even know people who dont own a computer (they have phones and consoles though, and some dont even have those).

id say that it wouldnt work in usa, but it would in latin america (thats part of the west, and we have more people than usa). some people even go to cyber cafes and play not because they cant play at home, but because they can hang out with friends while playing. its a social activity.

with that being said, i dont want games to be limited to cyber cafes only, i wanna be able to play at home.

It's also common in South Korea - which is why Korean MMORPG's are inherently designed differently than MMORPG's from NA and EU.

The issue with the suggestion is that it would make any MMORPG that followed the idea to simply not be played in NA/EU, and many people in other parts of the world would still skip it over if they can't play it at home.

The other issue with it is that the people running the game couldn't just assume every Internet cafe was following the rules - they are generally no more trustworthy than the average MMO player (they are often managed by the average MMO player). So even in those areas where it is common to go to places like this, it would still be limited in regards to exactly which establishments they could go to in order for the developer to guarantee there won't be any cheating.

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I fully understand where Dygz is coming from a rp perspective, meanwhile noaani is trying to make a statement if your character had god powers they would use it RP wise .A statement that is missing the actual soul of rp.

No soul = no fun. Looking at tracking numbers to figure out what you need to do to beat an encounter is not engaging.

Having more information obviously will make things easier, but trying to make a point about the game design needs to be people using trackers to figure things out to make "hard" content is gross.

Why is your RP better than someone else's RP?

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

This sounds like children saying they are rping while holding the monster manual and listing everything off about every encounter and what they are weak to.

To me, that just sounds like RP'ing a professional.

As I said earlier, if I was my character, in that world, and I was an adventurer, you had better believe that is what I would do.

I mean, that is what I do with my real profession, and my previous profession, so why would I not do that if my profession was life or death?

It is the notion that this CAN'T be good RP that is just blatantly wrong. Not all RP needs to consist of bumbling idiots - sometimes our characters can be competent at what they do.

This isn't a isekai though you aren't going to get that kind of op power. If you are roleplaying that character you are going to be normal and not knowing all information you are going to have to figure things out as you go through it. And if you die its the end.

It has nothing to do with being bumbling idiots, its about you are exploring a world and encountering things for the first time. So you have that kind of alien feeling to the world and sense of danger.

Idk what you're talking about I have the Perfect Observation and Godly Appraisal skills irl.

Get on my level I guess?

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

What if someone thinks that looking at numbers to figure something out is really engaging. Why do you have the right to say that they are wrong? (If its not against the TOS)

It really has nothing to do with whether or not Noaani's preferred playstyle is "wrong".
What matters is whether it fits with the goals of the Ashes game design.
"Ashes is not made for everyone."

That means the game should give reduced rewards to players who are "looking at numbers".
And sometime should randomly reward choices which look like mistakes, potentially even suicidal.
Chaotic evil NPCs made by chaotic evil developers, for innocent adventurers.

MrMurloc

Definitely, the DPS and HP meter is very convenient in understanding the usefulness of a class in specific situations when damage is too important.

And also to understand how useful you are and whether you are using rotation correctly. Which equipment and build brings more profit.

If the Creators are completely against this idea. It would be nice to at least use this function during training with a mannequin and generally create mannequins in the game on which you can train.☺️

Child Item