If fast travel is going to be limited why can we fast travel a caravan to loot

Just as the title reads why is it that we can fast travel one of the most integral parts of the game. We should have to build and already have a caravan on the road with our raid to pick up the loot we gain.

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Knotti

Not only that it gives the defending raid more options to defend their loot if they can attack the empty caravan of the attacking raid.

Ventharien

Knotti wrote: »

Just as the title reads why is it that we can fast travel one of the most integral parts of the game. We should have to build and already have a caravan on the road with our raid to pick up the loot we gain.

Could be just place holder, but in general i agree with you. Or send someone to a node where they can grab one, while defending the loot.

Vyril

I wouldn't call it fast travel. You have a timer before it shows up, getting longer the farther you are from the originating node.

All the while timers are not final.

Sathrago

Something that you might be forgetting is that if a caravan is destroyed you lose all the components you had attached to it. So even if they came back they would have to risk another set of components.

Having the caravan show up seems perfectly fine for me. it's the only realistic way to engage with that mechanic imo. To win the bandits need to destroy the caravan. Without a caravan certain goods cant be moved between nodes.

Knotti wrote: »

We should have to build and already have a caravan on the road with our raid to pick up the loot we gain.

caravans are absurdly slow and it makes no sense to waddle around with an empty one hoping you stumble into someone else with a full one.

CROW3

I think a timer for the thieves’ caravan is fine, as long as it’s calibrated to give the original party defending the caravan a fighting chance to reform a counter attack and recover their resources.

That would create a good back and forth between the two forces, and may require reserves being called up to assist.

If the timer is too short, it may be impossible to recover items, which could decrease any interest in caravans at all - rendering the whole feature useless.

I’m glad we have a real Alpha to suss this out.

Knotti

if a raid wants extra storage they should have to bring it with them.

Sathrago wrote: »

Something that you might be forgetting is that if a caravan is destroyed you lose all the components you had attached to it. So even if they came back they would have to risk another set of components.

what you are forgetting is that they make faster caravans so if you wanted faster travel use one of those.

Sathrago

if a raid wants extra storage they should have to bring it with them.

Yes, its called bringing more expensive components attached to the summon carriage. And because they choose to have more storage, they are also slower, opening them up to the higher chance of also being attacked on their way to turn the goods in.

Knotti wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

Something that you might be forgetting is that if a caravan is destroyed you lose all the components you had attached to it. So even if they came back they would have to risk another set of components.

what you are forgetting is that they make faster caravans so if you wanted faster travel use one of those.

Fast relative to other carriages. and these will have much smaller inventory spaces. Also, I think you are seeing caravans as a strictly group oriented content. From what I have heard and understand, there will be incentives to join the defense of random caravans you encounter rather than just attacking them. So I fully expect many defending and attacking parties to be a mash of solo and small groups of players. The developers seem to feel that its better for the flow of the game for you to be able to call a caravan over to collect up defeated caravan loot.

Think of the alternatives, The first one being you are required to bring an entire raid that can bring along materials to build the carriage on the spot. I say an entire raid because it sounds like you will not accept any easy way of doing it such as 1 to 3 people needing to carry the materials.
The second alternative is running around with an empty carriage. They are slow as hell, even if you grab a "fast one" you would need to run around with multiple of them and from what we know you can spot caravans from a very far distance away. so you are doing one of two things, sitting at choke points with a massive cluster of caravan icons giving away your position, or two, roaming around the open world with a massive cluster of caravan icons giving away your position.

Now, I would need you to actually explain a different way to have the carriage with the bandits without it requiring them all to be in a premade prior to the caravan attack and for this new method to not cause searching for caravans to be a massive boring time waster.

Tyranthraxus

Vyril wrote: »

I wouldn't call it fast travel. You have a timer before it shows up, getting longer the farther you are from the originating node.

All the while timers are not final.

There's this ^ and the fact that Steven - if you re-watch the video for the part where he goes to summon it - had supposedly already crafted/gotten together a caravan to be ready to use; There's to be effort ahead of time, *if* the attackers/raiders are going to try to take the loot to town, to get more out of it.

Am predicting most successful Caravan attackers will just divie-up the loot between their backs for lesser rewards, though.

Knotti

I say an entire raid because it sounds like you will not accept any easy way of doing it such as 1 to 3 people needing to carry the materials.

Not all caravans traveling with loot will be using the slower high armour caravan in the small example given. Perhaps they will be using small and faster caravans.

I believe a horse on its own will be considered a caravan type with storage and will have some speed to collect defeated loot. People also have bag space of their own. No I will not accept the easy way of doing this as it's been stated many times by Steven himself this will not be a game for casuals. Any sort of a summon is considered fast travel no matter how long it takes. If the raid can bring the resources and components and build one on the spot that is totally fine but it should function as a group* casted summon to do so.

If the bandits are out scouting in a small group such as the group of rangers that initiated the battle in the video of the small scale example that they have shown. They can perhaps before the engaging call for a larger raid or maybe multiple alliance raids to come help with the attack. I feel like searching for caravans will take some time as the maps will be an unprecedented size that will take some comprehending.

Chonkers1

Knotti wrote: »

I say an entire raid because it sounds like you will not accept any easy way of doing it such as 1 to 3 people needing to carry the materials.

Not all caravans traveling with loot will be using the slower high armour caravan in the small example given. Perhaps they will be using small and faster caravans.

I believe a horse on its own will be considered a caravan type with storage and will have some speed to collect defeated loot. People also have bag space of their own. No I will not accept the easy way of doing this as it's been stated many times by Steven himself this will not be a game for casuals. Any sort of a summon is considered fast travel no matter how long it takes. If the raid can bring the resources and components and build one on the spot that is totally fine but it should function as a casted summon to do so.

If the bandits are out scouting in a small group such as the group of rangers that initiated the battle in the video of the small scale example that they have shown. They can perhaps before the engaging call for a larger raid or maybe multiple alliance raids to come help with the attack. I feel like searching for caravans will take some time as the maps will be an unprecedented size that will take some comprehending.

the game technically is for casuals (not exclusively) according to the wiki.

Diamaht

Knotti wrote: »

Just as the title reads why is it that we can fast travel one of the most integral parts of the game. We should have to build and already have a caravan on the road with our raid to pick up the loot we gain.

Depends of how accessible you want caravan raiding to be. The effort it takes the defenders to maneuver a caravan to a location is mirrored for the attackers if they have to bring one too.

In effect with good scouting and redirecting you can make it extremely hard for the attackers to ever have a caravan in place and ready.

Its not a terrible idea but it does swing the advantage heavily over to the defenders.

Nexus777

I don't see any problem with summoning the caravan. Why? Because it takes time. The further you are from the Node you bought the caravan, the more you have to wait.

If you use the "construct the caravan option" you'll have a fixed period of time always, but it's fun and kinda strategic to take into account the waiting time for the caravan to arrive.

Sengarden

I agree completely for multiple reasons, and dove into this in detail on my main feedback thread post. Here's an excerpt from that with some of what I had to say about it:

If the marauders choose to transfer the crates to a new caravan, then this is how I think that system should change:

Get rid of the whole "call an entire caravan to spawn right next to me out of nowhere after standing around for five minutes" thing. I have to be perfectly honest and say that it's horribly, terribly immersion breaking, boring, and lazy. Is there a bit of a thrill in knowing you could be attacked again while waiting for it to show up? Eh, sort of, but odds are, the people you attacked won't really regroup and strike again until your new caravan arrives. Anything beats just standing around doing nothing in a video game for minutes on end during a period of time that's supposed to be an adrenaline-rush.

In lieu of this system, I think marauders should have to bring their own form of transportation for stolen goods. If they want to transfer it all straight into a new caravan, they'll need to have their buddy drive a caravan over from the nearby village for them, or have it hiding behind the hill they all pour out from when they launch their attack. Alternatively, they could bring along a few hand-carts that can hold up to a few crates each, but move a little bit slower for each crate they're holding, or some beasts of burden that can carry crates over their backs like panniers. From there, players will have to go the rest of the way to their selling destination on foot, or just make for the nearest town that has a friendly caravan in it if they don't have a full one with them, and then launch it as their own after the fact. While traveling, multiple carriers in one raid will just show up as multiple targets on the opposing team's minimaps. If the raid decides to go the beast of burden / handcart route instead of a single caravan, the raid leader can just designate all the stolen crates to be placed in their personal storage, no matter who delivers them, or at whatever town they end up in. Splitting up at this point could be a useful, but risky strategy if securing all the goods seems unlikely.

I also disagree with giving load-bearing vehicles a mass-auto-loot button. Players should have to manually re-load their new vehicles after a raid. It's just a little touch that adds a sense of immersion and requires a bit of team involvement. I think the caravan should have model/animation changes and speed debuffs for every 25% chunk of health taken away, and up to four players at a time should be able to help repair it if they aren't being interrupted by combat (the required time to fully repair reduces with more players actively repairing). I think players should be able to interact with the caravan at the raft conversion site, carry randomly generated bits and bobs from the caravan up the stairs to the raft, and have it slightly speed up the conversion rate per drop off. Lastly, I think they need to get rid of timers for these things and switch to percentage bars for the sake of realism and suspense.

The caravan and other load-bearing vehicles need to be more interactive and influenceable, right now they kind of just feel like moving zergfest zones.

Perryuppal

Knotti wrote: »

Just as the title reads why is it that we can fast travel one of the most integral parts of the game. We should have to build and already have a caravan on the road with our raid to pick up the loot we gain.

I think the reason they went with the ability to call a caravan rather than having to lug one around with you is that it makes it significantly harder to gank a caravan when your own party has one moving at a snail's pace. With that said, I would like to see them balance rewards so that looting crates is almost never worth doing over keeping them sealed and attempting to complete the caravan route.

Knotti

Perryuppal wrote: »

I think the reason they went with the ability to call a caravan rather than having to lug one around with you is that it makes it significantly harder to gank a caravan when your own party has one moving at a snail's pace.

Okay this is like the 3rd time I've seen something similar posted. You do not need to use the slowest caravan. There are options for different caravans with a variation of speeds and storage.

Perryuppal

Knotti wrote: »

Perryuppal wrote: »

I think the reason they went with the ability to call a caravan rather than having to lug one around with you is that it makes it significantly harder to gank a caravan when your own party has one moving at a snail's pace.

Okay this is like the 3rd time I've seen something similar posted. You do not need to use the slowest caravan. There are options for different caravans with a variation of speeds and storage.

That's true, but even the fastest caravan is expected to be slower than a player can travel on a mount. If ganking parties had to lug around a caravan, you would likely see a significant uptick of raid parties that choose to loot crates instead of completing the delivery due to the reduced ability to move back and forth between different routes to scout for caravan parties

Knotti

Perryuppal wrote: »

Knotti wrote: »

Perryuppal wrote: »

I think the reason they went with the ability to call a caravan rather than having to lug one around with you is that it makes it significantly harder to gank a caravan when your own party has one moving at a snail's pace.

Okay this is like the 3rd time I've seen something similar posted. You do not need to use the slowest caravan. There are options for different caravans with a variation of speeds and storage.

That's true, but even the fastest caravan is expected to be slower than a player can travel on a mount. If ganking parties had to lug around a caravan, you would likely see a significant uptick of raid parties that choose to loot crates instead of completing the delivery due to the reduced ability to move back and forth between different routes to scout for caravan parties

Well it sounds like those raids should've brought a caravan if they didn't want to loot the crates. These "Ganking parties" and people doing the work to get the best reward sound like two different things.

Endowed

As far back as the Roman's and thus BC, they would have fighting craftsmen to build anything they needed. Bridges, boats, siege and w/e else they thought to engineer. They would bring plenty of supplies and then still forage/strip the land.

I look at the "summons" simply being a CREATE timer.

Knotti

A group casted creation makes sense if the raid has brought the appropriate resources. These components should take up a considerable amount of bag space. The creation should only be able to progress with direct interaction from the players with no limitation of how many players can contribute.

Sathrago

Knotti wrote: »

A group casted creation makes sense if the raid has brought the appropriate resources. These components should take up a considerable amount of bag space. The creation should only be able to progress with direct interaction from the players with no limitation of how many players can contribute.

For the love of- Dude. The caravan system is not designed purely for group players. Thats why you are having this disconnect.

Read it. The only one that will have regular premades will be personal caravans. Even then they will still have many groups spontaneously created when people encounter and choose which side they want to join.

This is why the calling of the caravan needs to be this way. You are trying to get rid of a mechanic that allows both premade and pug groups to smoothly interact with the caravan system. If you have any ideas that dont leave pugs completely dead in the water when it comes to engaging with the caravans, then please by all means share.

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