Resting after a Battle/Fight.

Hello,

I often try to watch the Devstreams for AoC but don't get to involed or look too deeply as I don't want to spoil to much of the game for myself and just want to look forward to playing it.

However mostly seen in the recent Devstream on Feb 29th I noticed something that rather puts me off and would like some more information and to just give my feedback on, as I can't seem to find any recent information or questions/answers regarding it.

Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?

I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.
This is something I saw when I first played Aion Online after it's release and after a single fight/battle of 1-2 mobs I would sit down for 5-10 minutes (everytime) to restore my Health/Mana as Potions were not easy to obtain.

The issue is that I don't see Consumables being used in a fitting way or seem to be a 1 time thing and that's it.
I just don't see the point of this "sitting down" to restore oneself an ideal or fun mechanic.

Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

Azherae

This depends on mob distribution and difficulty for me.

In games where mobs are in packs (BDO, Onigiri, Neverwinter sort of) and the 'skill' is to arrange the pack and beat them all, I don't care about resting, because during that time, you're not usually doing anything. You're intended to 'defeat them all at the same time' and having 3 or more on you isn't an 'I'm in danger' situation, so you're not really thinking about how to avoid it.

In games where mobs are intended to be fought 1-2 at a time and adding another single mob by any form of aggro, is actually dangerous, then it depends on if the game is easy. If you can 'avoid respawned mobs' easily due to slow respawns or easy hiding places, I also don't care about resting, it's still 'not doing anything'.

If you have large roaming, and overlapping mob aggro ranges, and random 'quiet times' (what I'm used to), then standing still is fine, sitting is also fine. Because during that time, you are strategizing a bit, or at least, someone is. It's not that while people are 'talking' or whatever, that they are just 'waiting to play the game'. Watching the enemy movement, planning the flow, is playing the game.

This is actually 'more' true with dungeon-pathing gameplay. If you always have enough power to just attack the next mob, then it's also likely that the optimal fighting styles (even for exp gain) will involve just running and gunning your way through and learning 'safe spots to leash mobs to when you mess up.

So, in the old Alpha-1 design, I didn't mind stopping (but didn't need to sit), and for the type of thing we've seen in recent showcases, I don't want to have to stop.

This isn't very nuanced either, for me. If I don't run out of MP because 'I don't need to heal', or 'I don't need to use as many abilities', then I'm just pattern-matching. I'm not 'playing the game' because I'm doing much less of everything.and the game is rewarding me more (a lot of the time in non FFXI/TL games). If I don't run out entirely but have something 'engaging' to do, it's almost always just non-adaptive rotations.

Optimally for me, I need to be running out of mana, needing to stop, and the game's design is giving me something to think about that can be considered while I have stopped, a 'puzzle' in front of, or around me, to look at. I don't think this is very hard to do, I probably just happened to not see any sign of it lately, too many 'obvious and clear chokepoints and stop points' in the areas the recent showcases have been using, I guess.

However if the area/leash design philosophy stays the same (regardless of the supposed 'difficulty') I don't want to have to sit in Ashes, but I also wouldn't want to be fighting mobs in Ashes, so I think my feedback on that could be disregarded.

Orym

I have commented on this topic multiple times but in short this is my opinion on the matter:

• Mana/energy management IN combat adds something interesting, neccesary and challenging.

• Mana/energy management OUT of combat is booring, annoying and unneccesary.

I am against a system that is going to have me end up in a state of just standing around looking dumb, not able to do anything except waiting.

I am NOT against some sort of mana management in combat. Having to use abilities, buffs from friends or potions etc are completely fine.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Sounds like you want a korean grinding mmorpg. I can say most western people do not want these types of things.

Riiight, which is exactly why sitting down and regening seems to be what Steven likes as well and has done in previous streams

Mag7spy wrote: »

I don't see how you compare sitting and not moving is the same as ruining around a world that should be dynamic enough to make that experience of exploring even better.

Because if I want to explore - that's my goal and I can do that. If I want to farm something - I'd prefer if I could do that in one place. These are 2 different goals, which go against each other, unless you're fine with wasting your time not doing one or the other.

Anti-pvpers like to bring up the argument of "pvp prevents me from doing what I enjoy, because I don't enjoy pvp". To me, having "exploration" (not really, because it's just running) and mob farming both in one activity is the same as having pvp and pve to anti-pvpers - it's bad counterintuitive design.

And on the topic of westerners not like this, isn't instanced dungeons literally the same shit? Or are people so simpleminded that moving around a few rooms of a dungeon is "travelling enough" to not seem like farming the same place? Because to me grinding an instanced dungeon is the same as sitting in one room, and iirc even in WoW classic the optimal thing to do was to simply run the same dungeon over and over, if you wanted to progress optimally. And what is WoW classic if not the westernest mmo out there.

Im going to point out the part im talking about.

Just pointless running around the place. And this is exactly why I prefer mob grind in a singular location.

The commission system shown literally makes you move over the map...

On the point of you seeing him sittings to regen mana and hp he is actually rping and having fun which is fine. You cant' use that as a point all western gamers want that....

You are missing the point, yes instanced dungeons is better pve than a korean grinding game where you are fighting brain dead mobs that you can beat with your eyes closed. Even if you ran the dungeon a ton of times atleast there would be some challenge in it compared to mobs that do nothing but chase and attack you.

The reason people play this korean games is not for PvE, it is for PvP.

You don't realize but half the time you are actually advocating for bad style gameplay to try to have a linage clone. There is already one out there though called T&L and even they moved away from some elements of L2.

Edit*

Again i've done resting before in mmorpgs people advocating for resting constantly like the post about saying resting every 2-3 min for 30 seconds is absolutely ridiculous.

There is much better ways to adjust things to make players more mindful like higher ability cooldowns, positioning through the entire area with roaming mobs, planning required for challenges ahead, and other dangers. That might have you organically avoid combat for some element of time rather than forced constant long resting.

Effectively making good design that can create pauses rather than forced heavy pauses.

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Being a old school MMO player, I'm ok with it, in DAoC it was required, but you couldn't sit down without paying attention to your surroundings, as if you were to get attacked it was double damaged while sitting.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You don't realize but half the time you are actually advocating for bad style gameplay to try to have a linage clone. There is already one out there though called T&L and even they moved away from some elements of L2.

I'm advocating for what I prefer, just as you do

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You don't realize but half the time you are actually advocating for bad style gameplay to try to have a linage clone. There is already one out there though called T&L and even they moved away from some elements of L2.

I'm advocating for what I prefer, just as you do

Its not good lol, I do advocate for what i prefer, but I also consider other elements and what people want and give reason to it. Saying you want people to sit down after every few min for an extended period for no reason does not add anything to the game, nor does it even have anything to do with the amount of mana to spend in terms of balance with gameplay as you are in combat. If you run out of mana in combat that has no influence of resting outside of combat, its just dead end added time. Nor does resting = any form of added difficulty.

Endowed

Mag7spy wrote: »

for no reason

Other than resource management. And making those choices count and be meaningful.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

for no reason

Other than resource management. And making those choices count and be meaningful.

There is no resource management involved sitting outside of combat doing nothing and waiting...

tautau

....but was there resource management before you had to sit?

Mag7spy

tautau wrote: »

....but was there resource management before you had to sit?

You aren't in combat when you are not fighting there is no resource management involved. Combat and non combat are two different things.

Trying to suggest there is resource management while you literarily are doing nothing is absolutely silly.

Endowed

Mag7spy wrote: »

Endowed wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

for no reason

Other than resource management. And making those choices count and be meaningful.

There is no resource management involved sitting outside of combat doing nothing and waiting...

Yes there is. Your power/abilities are gated. You have to make meaningful choices how you apply them.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Endowed wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

for no reason

Other than resource management. And making those choices count and be meaningful.

There is no resource management involved sitting outside of combat doing nothing and waiting...

Yes there is. Your power/abilities are gated. You have to make meaningful choices how you apply them.

Please explain now sitting outside of combat to recover hp/ mana / CDS where you don't use abilities or fight has anything to do with meaningful choice....I'l wait...

Endowed

Please explain now sitting outside of combat to recover hp/ mana / CDS where you don't use abilities or fight has anything to do with meaningful choice....I'l wait...

In that very video.

Steven was fighting a minotaur and popped a blink when already sub 50%, wasting his mana (and time as he was now low mana waiting for in-combat regen after just 1 more spell) and assuring his longer recovery period. His decision mattered to his continued hunting.

Its no different than having a hard time gate... like lay-on-hands or bloodlust.

Making resource decisions to speed up or slow down the process. Sitting being faster than standing and being faster than running is all sound design to resource management and resource recovery. Much like minimal recovery in-combat.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

Please explain now sitting outside of combat to recover hp/ mana / CDS where you don't use abilities or fight has anything to do with meaningful choice....I'l wait...

In that very video.

Steven was fighting a minotaur and popped a blink when already sub 50%, wasting his mana (and time as he was now low mana waiting for in-combat regen after just 1 more spell) and assuring his longer recovery period. His decision mattered to his continued hunting.

Its no different than having a hard time gate... like lay-on-hands or bloodlust.

Making resource decisions to speed up or slow down the process. Sitting being faster than standing and being faster than running is all sound design to resource management and resource recovery. Much like minimal recovery in-combat.

You are literally talking about in-combat...

You can't say "Steven is fighting a minotaur" When we are talking about non combat.

Again I'll wait , as the point is NON-combat resting and you saying there is decision making there.

Endowed

No.
Him casting spells affected how long he had to rest/recover. Regardless when he cast them.
*He could have done it while crafting or sitting in an inn. He still had additional resource recovery time.
I just chose to use the video this entire conversation spawned from... since everyone can see it.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

No.
Him casting spells affected how long he had to rest/recover. Regardless when he cast them.
*He could have done it while crafting or sitting in an inn. He still had additional resource recovery time.
I just chose to use the video this entire conversation spawned from... since everyone can see it.

Love that answer "no" when you are refusing to talk about actual resting and only want to talk about combat lmao.

Conclusion there is no resource management while sitting down.

Mag7spy

Anyone else have an actual argument?

Endowed

"" assuring his longer recovery period. His decision mattered to his continued hunting.""

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

"" assuring his longer recovery period. His decision mattered to his continued hunting.""

I'm just going to repeat again, Conclusion there is no resource management while sitting down. Stop trying to say actions you do in combat are counting for out of combat.

Diamaht

Not after every single fight, but there, for sure, should be a point where you need to stop and recover.

The choice comes in how far you can push it before you are overwhelmed. Having that span over two or three engagements would be preferable.

However, having mana and health fill up after every ecounter makes all mobs feel boring and pointless.

Some hassle and inconvenience is a good thing. It means there are actually things you can't do. Modern MMOs get that wrong, not right.

Child Item