Resting after a Battle/Fight.

Hello,

I often try to watch the Devstreams for AoC but don't get to involed or look too deeply as I don't want to spoil to much of the game for myself and just want to look forward to playing it.

However mostly seen in the recent Devstream on Feb 29th I noticed something that rather puts me off and would like some more information and to just give my feedback on, as I can't seem to find any recent information or questions/answers regarding it.

Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?

I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.
This is something I saw when I first played Aion Online after it's release and after a single fight/battle of 1-2 mobs I would sit down for 5-10 minutes (everytime) to restore my Health/Mana as Potions were not easy to obtain.

The issue is that I don't see Consumables being used in a fitting way or seem to be a 1 time thing and that's it.
I just don't see the point of this "sitting down" to restore oneself an ideal or fun mechanic.

Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.

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Comments

k3mra

i remembered in the old mmo Dark Age of Camelot they added at a later point a camp fire system that was nice.
you had a realy shitty mana/health regen in general. but you could find campfires that drasticly increased the out of combat reg and gave a dmg buff for melee attacks.
once placed the stayed for i think 10 min or so.

it was also nice because the best xp spots where in the pvp zones. so if you saw a campfire you know there could be a group around and start hunting them or avoid the "taken" mob camp.

i think something like that could be a nice addition.
nodes could sell the campfires and crafters could build better ones.

Cadac

Seemingly pointless delay of game, and annoyance mechanics are usually resolved by cash shop purchases. Since this not going to be an option in Ashes, there may be in-game remedies that we are unaware of.

I am curious to see if out of combat regen is something a Bard could address to increase their value to a group.
Regen pots for the economy etc.

Saabynator

It you did not have to rest up at all, there would almost be no insentive to group. Besides that, it would probably go too fast. They would have to lower XP for mobs and probably a ton of other stuff I dont know. If any classes have regen in anything, that would haveto be scrapped etc. Bad idea all around,.

Mag7spy

Saabynator wrote: »

It you did not have to rest up at all, there would almost be no insentive to group. Besides that, it would probably go too fast. They would have to lower XP for mobs and probably a ton of other stuff I dont know. If any classes have regen in anything, that would haveto be scrapped etc. Bad idea all around,.

No one said 0 resting....People are saying extended rest times are not needed.

Ace1234

I understand why sitting is a mechanic, due to the risk factor, and integrating in some automatic down time for the player, and encouraging social interactions; but if im in the mood to fight things and farm, I don't want to be forced to stop and rest, it kills the flow and mood. I would rather the risk factor be placed elsewhere that doesn't kill the pacing, like the risk of pulling too many mobs at once or something like that. As far as the built-in downtime, I think i'd rather that be integrated into other more slower paced systems instead, like artisanship maybe, where it isn't gonna majorly disrupt the flow and pace of what your currently doing if you have some downtime. Wheras when im out farming mobs I would rather be able to strategically self-regulate my own downtime between fights to plan and interact with group members, while having the freedom to farm mobs uninterrupted with skillfull resource sustainability (at least until higher difficulties where group sustain might be required).

Diamaht

Mag7spy wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

It you did not have to rest up at all, there would almost be no insentive to group. Besides that, it would probably go too fast. They would have to lower XP for mobs and probably a ton of other stuff I dont know. If any classes have regen in anything, that would haveto be scrapped etc. Bad idea all around,.

No one said 0 resting....People are saying extended rest times are not needed.

This I would say is what Im basically saying as well.

Make the game challenging enough that it will drain you naturally on its own. That way, the rest and recover time happens naturally because the game is great. No artificial injection of rest needed.

If we can hit cruise control and coast through. Dial it up so we can't.

Mag7spy

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

It you did not have to rest up at all, there would almost be no insentive to group. Besides that, it would probably go too fast. They would have to lower XP for mobs and probably a ton of other stuff I dont know. If any classes have regen in anything, that would haveto be scrapped etc. Bad idea all around,.

No one said 0 resting....People are saying extended rest times are not needed.

This I would say is what Im basically saying as well.

Make the game challenging enough that it will drain you naturally on its own. That way, the rest and recover time happens naturally because the game is great. No artificial injection of rest needed.

If we can hit cruise control and coast through. Dial it up so we can't.

Remember the point of discussion is the amount of time you are resting. People that say 20+ seconds + it being constant is not what i agree on..

Diamaht

Mag7spy wrote: »

Diamaht wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

It you did not have to rest up at all, there would almost be no insentive to group. Besides that, it would probably go too fast. They would have to lower XP for mobs and probably a ton of other stuff I dont know. If any classes have regen in anything, that would haveto be scrapped etc. Bad idea all around,.

No one said 0 resting....People are saying extended rest times are not needed.

This I would say is what Im basically saying as well.

Make the game challenging enough that it will drain you naturally on its own. That way, the rest and recover time happens naturally because the game is great. No artificial injection of rest needed.

If we can hit cruise control and coast through. Dial it up so we can't.

Remember the point of discussion is the amount of time you are resting. People that say 20+ seconds + it being constant is not what i agree on..

This is one those things thats hard to pin down in seconds, for me at least. I guess its going to come down to pacing and feel once we are in there.

Arya_Yeshe

I wouldn't want to take breaks after every fight just because my health dropped below a certain number or just because I was knocked down!

To me, it would make sense to have to rest after venturing for 3 hours straight. It could serve as a window for people to stretch their legs and take a quick break. Maybe after 3 hours of PvP or PvE (even woodcutting), it would be acceptable to rest for 5 minutes; otherwise, the character would always be tired.

This mechanic would give parties the opportunity to decide when to rest, allowing them to rest together, much like real-life armies do. It could also be enjoyable to do this together, cooking food, eating, having a chat with the boys, and taking a short break. People could have their well-deserved breaks in real life.

Arya_Yeshe

Perhaps when you're resurrected by another player after dying, you could enter a 15-minute weakened state with all attributes reduced by 50%. This effect could be undone by waiting 15 minutes or consuming food,

I'm still not sure if I would be super stoked about it, but at least it is simple and people would understand it.

tautau

I see no useful point to that, Arya.

I much prefer the way they did it in L2 where rez scrolls got you up with full experience loss. But Clerics, as they advanced, could give you rezzes with more and more recovered experience until a Cardinal could give you a 100% resurrection (no experience loss). There weren't very many who could do that on a server, kinda made you popular if you could.

Morashtak

AidanKD wrote: »

- Versatility of the food buffs. I like the idea of people having a "well fed" buff...
- Economy. Naturally more gold sinks is better for moving money around the economy...
- Inventory space ...will determine how much food you need to carry, ...
I think that I don't mind resting for regen as long as it doesn't interfere with the gameplay too much. And I suppose food serving its purpose can diminish that downtime.

Yep. Going to fully expect and accept a system very similar to this - Various levels of food buffs that reduce out-of-combat downtime, increasing in cost as useable-by-#level increases and stackable (though the last item could start at 20/stack at low level, decreasing to 5/stack at highest levels).
Am not a fan of "/sit" either - Just allow regen to start ticking five seconds after leaving combat. Standing still could allow 20% more ticks/second.

Xeeg

I'm a fan of sitting down to rest for Ashes of Creation.

It's going to be an important part of pvp strategy.

Xeeg

I also think the sitting aspect is important. If you are trying to run away from a group that MAY try to engage on you, you shouldn't be healing to full just by running away and out of combat.

A big part of this game is the strategy around player movement and player location. Sitting to rest adds to this game design.

hleV

You shouldn't immediately be back to full HP after disengaging a fight, we don't want "kite and heal" to be meta.

Orym

@hleV if you disengage a fight you are not kiting, you are fleeing. And if you are talking about a 1vs1 why would you be against someone that fled and came back later? When you both are 100% HP.

@Xeeg Why are you against regening quick out of combat? I genuinly don't understand what you mean. If you ran away AKA succesfully fled, why do you need a period of sitting before engaging again?

Just trying to understand the other side of the argument more in detail.

Ludullu

Orym wrote: »

Just trying to understand the other side of the argument more in detail.

My main question for this context would be "what constitutes 'combat'?" Is it a stance of sorts? Is it a "you have made an attack of any kind within the past X time"? Is it "you've received dmg within the past X time"?

Cause depending on what it is, the victim turning around right after they "exit combat and regen super fast" might now have the advantage over the initial attacker, in terms of resources.

Of course it could be argued that the attacker had the upper hand at the start, but I'd say that this is already addressed in the design choice of "greens can't be CCed". I see that design choice as the direct counter to the attacker having an advantage, because depending on the kind of CCs we'll have - the victim might have a CC that allows them to dish out way more dmg than the attacker did in their first strike, but w/o getting any dmg in the meantime.

So, in other words, requiring at least some buffer between the combat exit and regening up to full would level up the playing field.

p.s. if combat is also linked to being flagged, then the victim would have even more of an advantage.

Mag7spy

Running away and regenning fast would not be good while being mobile as a default for all players. Makes the gameplay people don't want pretty much and why they are talking about forcing you to sit.

Xeeg

Orym wrote: »

@Xeeg Why are you against regening quick out of combat? I genuinly don't understand what you mean. If you ran away AKA succesfully fled, why do you need a period of sitting before engaging again?

I'm not against it for many kinds of games, but for this game i think quick healing out of combat ruins some of the minute to minute game play strategy. I'm sure some characters will be more mobile than others, so simply "fleeing" is not necessarily the end of the story. What about the next pack of mobs you run into, or other players? Being aware of your current HPs and requirements to either sit, consume items, or find a healer is an important part of the strategy in picking fights and player placement.

Another aspect goes to balancing out exp rates with group comps that include healers and ones that don't. Healers lose out on exp rate/hr by spending time healing rather than damaging enemies. If non healers have to spend time "resting" after the fight, they balance out some of the target to target kill times. Hey, maybe the healer can actually help out on DPS/CC during the fight, only healing if necessary, and then topping up everyone after the fight. That whole idea goes out the window with fast healing out of combat.

Again, there are games and systems where resting to full doesn't fit the game and is just useless downtime that frustrates players. In this game, I think it is an important strategic part of the gameplay.

Orym

@NiKr
I actually don't think being in combat and what combat means matters all that much in a 1vs1 pvp context.
This game is supposed to have rock paper scissors type of classes. If I play as a range rogue attacking a tank I expect to be the rock to his scissor and he is not going to be able to run away and out of combat, regening quick.

If it is a pve encounter and I run out of combat to regen up because I can't stay in combat. I think thats completely fine since you would still loose efficency by not attacking a mob because you fled. I don't think you would have to wait more that 10-20 seconds for HP and mana to fully restore to engage again, after you exited combat. It's still worse than with friends.

So in conclusion I think for a pvp encounter. Don't let them get away. This MMO is not balanced for 1vs1 anyways. And for let's say 8 vs 8 scenario I have a hard time seeing "kite and heal" be any useful or viable strategy.

For pve encounter. If you play back and forth fleeing out of combat and in again it's going to be inefficent and you would be better with a healer friend.

@Xeeg Okey, so you fancy a little bit more time being on your toes after you got low and need to regen out in the wild? I can understand that point of view at the same time I can see that being frustrating if someone came by middle into your regen and got an easy kill because you were low from a mob encounter earlier.
I feel like I would look over my shoulder every single time I engaged a mob in that case, but I can see pros and cons with that.

Two Questions to both (and others). 1 How long after leaving combat should you be back to full HP/mana?
Me personally think about 10-20 seconds without having to sit or do anything else than waiting.

2 Do you think mana should be a limiting factor how long you could stay in combat? Even if you do everything you can to fill up.

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