I was getting at that PvEer's extreme POV of "everyone doing X is a griefer loser" and you replied with random nonsense about me playing MMOs with less than millions of players.
Yes I did, and you didn't get it - hence by second comment.
You thinking a comment is nonsense doesn't mean it is - it often just means you didn't get it. If you are a PvP player, it is probably more often the second of the above.
You thinking you make sense doesn't mean you are. Am I doing this right? Boy that's gonna win me so many arguments!
Either participate in the discussion like a normal fucking person or leave it be.
I've already elaborated why your "basic comment" makes no sense in the context of me getting at someone's extreme POV of "everyone doing X is a griefer loser" (an objectively false statement). If all you have to say to that is "yOu jUsT dOn'T gEt iT" then you just lose the argument by default.
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chibibreeMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
AOC is game with PVP. I think everyone agrees on that.
Main Point is this, stop focusing on if this game is PVP or PVE
It's hard to not focus on one or the other when all of the systems are tied to one or the other or both. I would argue that focusing on making sure there is a balance between PvP and PvE in a way that this is a true PvX is one of the most important things we can do to help ensure it's success.
You thinking you make sense doesn't mean you are. Am I doing this right? Boy that's gonna win me so many arguments!
Either participate in the discussion like a normal fucking person or leave it be.
I've already elaborated why your "basic comment" makes no sense in the context of me getting at someone's extreme POV of "everyone doing X is a griefer loser" (an objectively false statement). If all you have to say to that is "yOu jUsT dOn'T gEt iT" then you just lose the argument by default.
Hey, it's not my fault you don't get it.
Also, I did participate in this discussion - last year.
I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
Am i accusing others of things like ill Will or childish Behaviour,
when i say that most of these People don't " WANT " to get it ??
That they have some weirdly twisted Hopes ?
That Ashes will be just like the Games they once loved to play ?
Well i know that People like the ArcheAge Players will greatly get their Money's worth. ^.^
But otherwise,
i CAN'T. WAIT. for a refreshing change of Pace from this Disappointment of a (B)Lizzard Cashcow, that is World of WoW-Token Craft. I can't wait to see a MMO succeed where Guildwars Two failed. Or New World. Or pretty much any other MMO Games with a comparable Setting.
Thanks Sir Steven and all the other Gods below him. (*grin*) and there is nothing that either shitty, little Activision of that steaming Pile of Dung named "EA" can do against it.
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Oh, well I'd make that argument too.
I'm sure we'll see some PvX stuff eventually, but I'm with those people. Ain't seen any yet.
So yeah, I'm in the 'PvE game with optional PvP' crowd, for now. I'll count myself.
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Oh, well I'd make that argument too.
I'm sure we'll see some PvX stuff eventually, but I'm with those people. Ain't seen any yet.
So yeah, I'm in the 'PvE game with optional PvP' crowd, for now. I'll count myself.
Well I just think where the focus or vision is.
Can either be PVP focused, PVE focused or how I feel about Ashes is that every single aspect of this game is mixed with PVP and PvE. So the entire focus has always has both in mind
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Is that consistent across game type boards or are you getting different responses depending on the game?
For instance, I’d imagine MO2 boards seeing Ashes as a PvE game, while more PvE boards seeing Ashes as a PvP game.
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Is that consistent across game type boards or are you getting different responses depending on the game?
For instance, I’d imagine MO2 boards seeing Ashes as a PvE game, while more PvE boards seeing Ashes as a PvP game.
Most gamers are confused on most forums. My guess is about 10-20% people not following closely get it.
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Is that consistent across game type boards or are you getting different responses depending on the game?
For instance, I’d imagine MO2 boards seeing Ashes as a PvE game, while more PvE boards seeing Ashes as a PvP game.
I'm not sure how people still don't know what flavour of MMO this is? I can't count the number of people that are confused about Ashes being PvX.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Is that consistent across game type boards or are you getting different responses depending on the game?
For instance, I’d imagine MO2 boards seeing Ashes as a PvE game, while more PvE boards seeing Ashes as a PvP game.
From my perspective, the general concensus in most other games is that this game will be shit, but for different reasons.
People I know in EQ and EQ2 say the game doesn't appeal to them because of the constant conflict inherent to basically every aspect of the game.
People I know from back when I played EVE say the game will be shit because it wants to try and compete with EVE's economy, yet can't find a developer with anything close to the right skillset to realize that.
People I know in Archeage say the game isn't for them because the rigid class structure (as opposed to Archeages) will lead to players being left out of organized PvP if their primary archetype is deemed less useful than other archetypes.
People I know that still play Rift think Ashes will fail because of the reliance they see the game having on events and other open world set pieces, and how quickly they have seen populations get bored with such content.
I don't know anyone from when I played BDO, so can't speak to what they think of the game.
The above all said, that is still a select group of people from each of these games, not necessarily the entire population of the game.
Perhaps my point here is - none of the people I know currently playing an MMORPG are looking at Ashes favorably.
I said a thing, you didn't understand it. What argument is being had here?
I understood what you wrote. I also pointed out that it's an irrelevant nonsense. If you don't think it is, then what you wrote must have a different meaning in your head than the rest, and I don't read thoughts, so I really don't get what you wanted to write.
You really have nothing going for your argument, so yeah, might as well keep repeating "you don't get it", seeing how great it's working out for you.
So you have a game where you can be griefed, you will drop a percentage of the things you have collected in the short time you have to play. That person has done nothing really to get it, and can keep doing it just building up corruption. Then if they are smart, use a second account to kill this one corrupted and get everything for free.
But lets be clear, the game requires the casual player doing PVE, so many of the game mechanics can be completed. So tell me why do you think they should play?
If you say it's not a casual game, then you better hope all the PVE based mechanics are really easy to complete.
Always PVP game will be full of griefers everyone knows it, they won't care about the corruption, as they know they will kill some people easily, especially as many will not even fight back! So you have PVP mechanics that mean there is no real reason not to grief
A game is not social because you need protection, a game is social because people want to play together. PVP'ers don't want to play with PVE'ers, they want easy kills, well at least some do (and that's enough to stop PVE'ers Playing).
So a game that could be great, may well be limited by it's low population of PVP'ers.
So you have a game where you can be griefed, you will drop a percentage of the things you have collected in the short time you have to play. That person has done nothing really to get it, and can keep doing it just building up corruption. Then if they are smart, use a second account to kill this one corrupted and get everything for free.
Basically this part.
Let's not act like Ashes players have to PvE much, unless we're counting quests. Honestly, possibly 'not at all'.
Would it be inefficient to not PvE? Sure. But there's nearly no point at which you would need to make PvE activity your focus. And the argument of 'well, inefficient people will be too weak and won't matter', if made, only applies when the inefficient player is falling behind their target.
Then if they are smart, use a second account to kill this one corrupted and get everything for free.
You assume death is balanced like in other games.
In AoC death causes gear to lose durability. We do not know how it will be balanced. Can be done so that a highly corrupted player will lose more durability on death than a light corrupted player. Repairing epic gear can be expensive.
You don't even need an Alpha 2 test to figure out the balance ratios, to prevent such simple tricks.
The only reason to ask a friend to kill and clean corruption should be to deny enemy to do that. And in special cases should be a valid solution.
But if a player can kill many with common gear and get corruption, then those greens are either passive and have no place in the game or do not cooperate. The corrupted player cannot CC greens and gets weaker and weaker. And greens remain green while fighting the corrupted player.
Then if they are smart, use a second account to kill this one corrupted and get everything for free.
You assume death is balanced like in other games.
In AoC death causes gear to lose durability. We do not know how it will be balanced. Can be done so that a highly corrupted player will lose more durability on death than a light corrupted player. Repairing epic gear can be expensive.
You don't even need an Alpha 2 test to figure out the balance ratios, to prevent such simple tricks.
The only reason to ask a friend to kill and clean corruption should be to deny enemy to do that. And in special cases should be a valid solution.
But if a player can kill many with common gear and get corruption, then those greens are either passive and have no place in the game or do not cooperate. The corrupted player cannot CC greens and gets weaker and weaker. And greens remain green while fighting the corrupted player.
To be clear, would we actually want 'going red' to be strongly disincentivized because your gear gets shredded?
Also, who would PK in good gear even now? The entire point of PK is that you are killing someone who doesn't even check if they could kill you.
Comments
You thinking a comment is nonsense doesn't mean it is - it often just means you didn't get it. If you are a PvP player, it is probably more often the second of the above.
Either participate in the discussion like a normal fucking person or leave it be.
I've already elaborated why your "basic comment" makes no sense in the context of me getting at someone's extreme POV of "everyone doing X is a griefer loser" (an objectively false statement). If all you have to say to that is "yOu jUsT dOn'T gEt iT" then you just lose the argument by default.
This
Moral is people don't know jackshit. Emotionally charged comments which have no home in logic is the majority.
Hey, it's not my fault you don't get it.
Also, I did participate in this discussion - last year.
Am i accusing others of things like ill Will or childish Behaviour,
when i say that most of these People don't " WANT " to get it ??
That they have some weirdly twisted Hopes ?
That Ashes will be just like the Games they once loved to play ?
Well i know that People like the ArcheAge Players will greatly get their Money's worth. ^.^
But otherwise,
i CAN'T. WAIT. for a refreshing change of Pace from this Disappointment of a (B)Lizzard Cashcow, that is World of WoW-Token Craft. I can't wait to see a MMO succeed where Guildwars Two failed. Or New World. Or pretty much any other MMO Games with a comparable Setting.
Thanks Sir Steven and all the other Gods below him. (*grin*) and there is nothing that either shitty, little Activision of that steaming Pile of Dung named "EA" can do against it.
I definitely have the tools to count them, so just point me at them and I'll do it.
I generally only hang around here, when it comes to Ashes, so I don't see them.
I'm on other gaming forums and people are often shocked when I start talking about what ever update, how it applies to PvX. Often leading to people being shocked or arguing that Ashes is a PvE game with optional PvP.
Oh, well I'd make that argument too.
I'm sure we'll see some PvX stuff eventually, but I'm with those people. Ain't seen any yet.
So yeah, I'm in the 'PvE game with optional PvP' crowd, for now. I'll count myself.
Well I just think where the focus or vision is.
Can either be PVP focused, PVE focused or how I feel about Ashes is that every single aspect of this game is mixed with PVP and PvE. So the entire focus has always has both in mind
Is that consistent across game type boards or are you getting different responses depending on the game?
For instance, I’d imagine MO2 boards seeing Ashes as a PvE game, while more PvE boards seeing Ashes as a PvP game.
Most gamers are confused on most forums. My guess is about 10-20% people not following closely get it.
And both those boards say AoC is bad?
I said a thing, you didn't understand it. What argument is being had here?
From my perspective, the general concensus in most other games is that this game will be shit, but for different reasons.
People I know in EQ and EQ2 say the game doesn't appeal to them because of the constant conflict inherent to basically every aspect of the game.
People I know from back when I played EVE say the game will be shit because it wants to try and compete with EVE's economy, yet can't find a developer with anything close to the right skillset to realize that.
People I know in Archeage say the game isn't for them because the rigid class structure (as opposed to Archeages) will lead to players being left out of organized PvP if their primary archetype is deemed less useful than other archetypes.
People I know that still play Rift think Ashes will fail because of the reliance they see the game having on events and other open world set pieces, and how quickly they have seen populations get bored with such content.
I don't know anyone from when I played BDO, so can't speak to what they think of the game.
The above all said, that is still a select group of people from each of these games, not necessarily the entire population of the game.
Perhaps my point here is - none of the people I know currently playing an MMORPG are looking at Ashes favorably.
And the Answer is : Y~ES !!!
I understood what you wrote. I also pointed out that it's an irrelevant nonsense. If you don't think it is, then what you wrote must have a different meaning in your head than the rest, and I don't read thoughts, so I really don't get what you wanted to write.
You really have nothing going for your argument, so yeah, might as well keep repeating "you don't get it", seeing how great it's working out for you.
But lets be clear, the game requires the casual player doing PVE, so many of the game mechanics can be completed. So tell me why do you think they should play?
If you say it's not a casual game, then you better hope all the PVE based mechanics are really easy to complete.
Always PVP game will be full of griefers everyone knows it, they won't care about the corruption, as they know they will kill some people easily, especially as many will not even fight back! So you have PVP mechanics that mean there is no real reason not to grief
A game is not social because you need protection, a game is social because people want to play together. PVP'ers don't want to play with PVE'ers, they want easy kills, well at least some do (and that's enough to stop PVE'ers Playing).
So a game that could be great, may well be limited by it's low population of PVP'ers.
Basically this part.
Let's not act like Ashes players have to PvE much, unless we're counting quests. Honestly, possibly 'not at all'.
Would it be inefficient to not PvE? Sure. But there's nearly no point at which you would need to make PvE activity your focus. And the argument of 'well, inefficient people will be too weak and won't matter', if made, only applies when the inefficient player is falling behind their target.
When You are a "normal" Player - then probably Yes.
When You are a Troll trying to make other Players' daily Business a living Hell, well not so much.
In AoC death causes gear to lose durability. We do not know how it will be balanced. Can be done so that a highly corrupted player will lose more durability on death than a light corrupted player. Repairing epic gear can be expensive.
You don't even need an Alpha 2 test to figure out the balance ratios, to prevent such simple tricks.
The only reason to ask a friend to kill and clean corruption should be to deny enemy to do that. And in special cases should be a valid solution.
But if a player can kill many with common gear and get corruption, then those greens are either passive and have no place in the game or do not cooperate. The corrupted player cannot CC greens and gets weaker and weaker. And greens remain green while fighting the corrupted player.
To be clear, would we actually want 'going red' to be strongly disincentivized because your gear gets shredded?
Also, who would PK in good gear even now? The entire point of PK is that you are killing someone who doesn't even check if they could kill you.