My PvX != Your PvX

Basis: I prefer PvE over PvP so, in my mind, I'd like to see more balance between the systems.

Is this a fantasy, yes. I know logically that PvX for Ashes consists of a blend, a mixture if you will, of both elements. Therefore, I think that when some of us say "Ashes isn't really PvX", what we mean is that it isn't what we would think PvX would be (Equal measure of both in my opinion).

Do I want PvE only servers? No. I enjoy the risks that come with the PvP Systems in mind. Will I need a group of friends to play with because (even though I'm complimented for living in the Caravan stream) I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to PvP? Absolutely!

All in all, I'm just trying to say that I think PvX can be considered more of a spectrum where some of us like the (in my opinion) PvP heavy version of PvX and I'm sure there are some that prefer a more PvE heavy version of PvX.

I plan to play Ashes all the same, but I had seen this topic floating around and wanted to discuss it, or share my thoughts.

Find more posts tagged with

Staff

Comments

TheHiddenDaggerInn

chibibree wrote: »

My point is that, by it being non instanced, it is more-so PvX when many of the PvP things are instanced. I know that there will be super hard, but will they be super hard because they are actually super hard or are they super hard because it's really just a little harder but also this group of PvP-ers are also now attacking you, splitting your attention.

It just is going to add another element you aren't familiar with atm, but with the right group I believe you will find enjoyable. Doing a hard encounter, while keeping your head on a swivel is even more rewarding and enjoyable when you finish it!

chibibree

ILLPeonU wrote: »

chibibree wrote: »

My point is that, by it being non instanced, it is more-so PvX when many of the PvP things are instanced. I know that there will be super hard, but will they be super hard because they are actually super hard or are they super hard because it's really just a little harder but also this group of PvP-ers are also now attacking you, splitting your attention.

It just is going to add another element you aren't familiar with atm, but with the right group I believe you will find enjoyable. Doing a hard encounter, while keeping your head on a swivel is even more rewarding and enjoyable when you finish it!

And that is what I'm hoping for haha which is why I keep saying, I will see in game. It is just a really new concept for me and I'm not sure how overwhelming it will be.

Ludullu

chibibree wrote: »

My point is that, by it being non instanced, it is more-so PvX when many of the PvP things are instanced.

Except we don't know how much arena we can play per day/week/month. And even if it's a ton - unless they literally give us gear for it, we'll spend more time outside of arenas than in them, because we'll need better gear to be better.

The only instanced pvp is arenas and sieges. Sieges are once a month (and we got no clue how often Node sieges will be), so ratio-wise, there's gonna be waaaaay more open world pvp/x than instanced stuff.

In other words, pvp might have a worse ratio than 80/20, when it comes to open world vs instanced.

chibibree wrote: »

I know that there will be super hard, but will they be super hard because they are actually super hard or are they super hard because it's really just a little harder but also this group of PvP-ers are also now attacking you, splitting your attention.

Yeah, we don't know how those hardcore encounters will be designed, but there's multiple ways of addressing the scale of pvxness in any given encounter and I'd expect Intrepid to use at least a few of those.

Endowed

chibibree wrote: »

My point is that, by it being non instanced, it is more-so PvX when many of the PvP things are instanced. I know that there will be super hard, but will they be super hard because they are actually super hard or are they super hard because it's really just a little harder but also this group of PvP-ers are also now attacking you, splitting your attention.

1,000,000%.

Aszkalon

chibibree wrote: »

I actually made an image for where things stand in my mind:

While my chronic Concentration Disorder hurts my Head when i look at a few Parts of this, well done.

I don't imagine things there, right ?

" Killing the Gatherer " ? ^.^

So People actually no Problem to admit that most PvP-Action " WILL " be the Role of the classic Highwaymen.
Or of a Pirate. >;-)

Cadac

No one will be better served by PVP Progression than an innocent gatherer like me.

Myosotys

chibibree wrote: »

Basis: I prefer PvE over PvP so, in my mind, I'd like to see more balance between the systems.

Is this a fantasy, yes. I know logically that PvX for Ashes consists of a blend, a mixture if you will, of both elements. Therefore, I think that when some of us say "Ashes isn't really PvX", what we mean is that it isn't what we would think PvX would be (Equal measure of both in my opinion).

Do I want PvE only servers? No. I enjoy the risks that come with the PvP Systems in mind. Will I need a group of friends to play with because (even though I'm complimented for living in the Caravan stream) I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to PvP? Absolutely!

All in all, I'm just trying to say that I think PvX can be considered more of a spectrum where some of us like the (in my opinion) PvP heavy version of PvX and I'm sure there are some that prefer a more PvE heavy version of PvX.

I plan to play Ashes all the same, but I had seen this topic floating around and wanted to discuss it, or share my thoughts.

As I understood, PvX in AOC means the stakes involve mostly PvP but PvP is strictly regulated by a corruption system to leave room for PvE.

daveywavey

Aszkalon wrote: »

chibibree wrote: »

I actually made an image for where things stand in my mind:

While my chronic Concentration Disorder hurts my Head when i look at a few Parts of this, well done.

I don't imagine things there, right ?

" Killing the Gatherer " ? ^.^

So People actually no Problem to admit that most PvP-Action " WILL " be the Role of the classic Highwaymen.
Or of a Pirate. >;-)

Their cross-over between PvP and Economy is the Killing The Gatherer.

Their "PvP-action" itself is Arenas, Sieges, Caravans, Guild Wars, Naval.

Although, I'd probably put Caravans in the cross-over between PvP and Economy, too.

Aszkalon

Cadac wrote: »

No one will be better served by PVP Progression than an innocent gatherer like me.

How so, if i may ask ?

Any Bandit, Highwayman, Ganker or whatever else for Playerkiller, can just try to ambush and murder You for parts of your gathered Ingredients and Ressources inside your Pockets, right ?

Sure, he/she gets Corruption for it - but that doesn't make innocent Gatherers immune from being robbed.

Liniker

different players different perspectives, thats the beauty of MMOs

Otr

Fantmx wrote: »

The question I an eager to see answer during alpha, beta and release, is what balance of each type of person does Ashes need to succeed long term.

If you want PvP you go to military nodes.
If you want PvE you go to divine nodes.

Depraved

chibibree wrote: »

Basis: I prefer PvE over PvP so, in my mind, I'd like to see more balance between the systems.

Is this a fantasy, yes. I know logically that PvX for Ashes consists of a blend, a mixture if you will, of both elements. Therefore, I think that when some of us say "Ashes isn't really PvX", what we mean is that it isn't what we would think PvX would be (Equal measure of both in my opinion).

Do I want PvE only servers? No. I enjoy the risks that come with the PvP Systems in mind. Will I need a group of friends to play with because (even though I'm complimented for living in the Caravan stream) I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to PvP? Absolutely!

All in all, I'm just trying to say that I think PvX can be considered more of a spectrum where some of us like the (in my opinion) PvP heavy version of PvX and I'm sure there are some that prefer a more PvE heavy version of PvX.

I plan to play Ashes all the same, but I had seen this topic floating around and wanted to discuss it, or share my thoughts.

u gonna spend 95% of your time in ashes killing mobs and doing pve xd

Jhoren

About the instanced argument, we're only getting arenas in the instanced PvP department, and arenas won't reward players with new gear. They might reward players with temporary enhancement stones though. And then we have 20% of the PvE content, like dungeons, that we assume is mostly story-based. Those might provide some gear upgrades.

All the rest of the content in the game is PvX. Even the reward part of a successful node siege is an open world zone for several days. Only the actual siege part is probably instanced.

So in terms of instanced rewards, PvP isn't favored.

Kilion

There is one thing that I do not get tired of mentioning, because it is overlooked a lot, solely for the reason that we can do or know nothing more about it at this point and that is:

Limited Access
The single most strongest way of limited access is distance. With no fast travel and a huuuuge map with rugged territory to cross, there will only be a limited number of players in any area to compete with you over a given thing.

Another important way that access will be limited is through the competition itself, as people will instinctively limit information. If you do not know that this boss in this fairly easy dungeon has a small chance to drop this very rare ingredient, they will not compete over it with you and you and your guild will not tell them where you got it.

And lastly the temporary nature of almost everything guarantees that with every change happening in the Node system competition will become more or less fierce. If you as a peace loving guild play your cards right, you might establish and run a fairly unimportant Tier 4 Node that survives various changes of your Parent Node. In peace times, you comply with the rules of the parent Node, after all the worst thing they can do is put some taxes on you, while you could secretly support their enemies if the Parent Node is no good. And when the Parent Node is gone and players in your region begin to fight over the leader position, your guild scatters out for adventures further away so that your Node does not accidently ends up as the Parent Node with a Damocles Sword hanging over your head. That also has the added benefit that you go away as other pour in meaning you leave the area of highest conflict until things settle in again.

With all that being said - the impact of access limitation in the above mentioned ways will to a good portion come down to us testing and giving feedback during the Alpha 2 stage as the current impact is impossible to calculate beforehand. Intrepid needs to closely monitor how far apart/close together we are on Verra and whether that helps or limits the flow of the game.

Pawkets

chibibree wrote: »

Do I want PvE only servers? No. I enjoy the risks that come with the PvP Systems in mind. Will I need a group of friends to play with because (even though I'm complimented for living in the Caravan stream) I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to PvP? Absolutely!

I picture you living in that showcase because you were hiding under the caravan until everyone else in the fight died and someone found you under the caravan.

Azherae

Behold!

My PvX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQ_aer93t8

Now with more Equality.

Ethanh37

id also like to add that we dont know how the pvp content will role out though a server. meaning early on might be open world fights over areas/resource then caravans will be the next big pickings along with certain dungeons. then comes castle and node sieges and world bosses, and finally the guild wars. all these types of PVP i see effecting a PVE player thought the first six months of play. and my biggest take on this is were ever there is conflict there has to be a layer of control holding it to account and i think IS will get it right. like at the moment if you fight back the other side wont get corrupted that all sounds fine but its placing a lot of restriction on the defenders to make them fight we know people grief so i predict more people will not fight back, and at the moment that will cost you more of your resources. i expect this will change as its straight up unfair. if anything its the wrong way round. there are people that play that will just not PVP unless its planed. to get punished by the system its self like this will push them away hard, and alpha 2 will be the perfect time to test this and i really hope the corruption system is in place and working unlike alpha 1 were they had to ask people to stop the PVP. a corruption dev log would be a real eye opener into how IS is balancing this.

Nerror

Azherae wrote: »

Behold!

My PvX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQ_aer93t8

Now with more Equality.

Ok, so a fairly standard raid boss fight with two competing raids.

I have questions!

In T&L is it the raid group with 50%+ damage that gets the boss kill?
Are the members of the other raid group not enemies until they engage inside that circle?

It looks somewhat like what I envision we'll see in Ashes, except for all the teleporting. For dungeon bosses I hope there are chokepoints where you can have friendly groups preventing others from even entering, at least if they are flagged as combatants somehow, until they are strong enough to overcome the blocking force. For worldbosses out on the open that may be difficult.

Azherae

Nerror wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Behold!

My PvX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQ_aer93t8

Now with more Equality.

Ok, so a fairly standard raid boss fight with two competing raids.

I have questions!

In T&L is it the raid group with 50%+ damage that gets the boss kill?
Are the members of the other raid group not enemies until they engage inside that circle?

It looks somewhat like what I envision we'll see in Ashes, except for all the teleporting. For dungeon bosses I hope there are chokepoints where you can have friendly groups preventing others from even entering, at least if they are flagged as combatants somehow, until they are strong enough to overcome the blocking force. For worldbosses out on the open that may be difficult.

Would you prefer that, actually? I feel like that would just lead to the situation becoming more stale, faster.

Losing side loses more rapidly, zergs get advantaged, etc.

I don't care either way, but I'm interested in the concept in terms of what people find good.

To be clear, I feel like the entire premise of territory/chokepoint control doesn't work in modern MMOs and Ashes does not seem to be going 'back to when it mattered' (this is sort of a good thing, but in effect it can be a bad thing if you try to design it like old games but with a new coat of paint... the paint is toxic in that case, is what I'm saying).

Ethanh37

@Azherae

im guessing the blue out line is the boss fight area and the other group cant see the bosses health unless they have a member in that area... i liked the moment at 11.28 wiped them in seconds that time...

this type of PVP content is what people will be expecting i think, what people complain about is the thought of getting killed out in the open world more often...and for no reason...

Child Item