AOC is NOT a PVP game.

AoC is a PVX game and that means something.

This started as a reply during another Forum post but It became long winded so I just made a post. As always any thoughts of your own are appreciated.

I think there is a general confusion on what AoC is trying to be and why some people incorrectly think that this game is being designed around Nostalgia or PVP. Its not.

I look at this game as closer to a Story to be read, or something you could write about and even if you didn't play there would be stories you would want to hear. You can have a version of meaningful conflict with out PVP for sure but the more you risk the bigger the conflict and the more interesting the story. Just look at Eve Online, I've barely touched that game but I've heard the stories and there's a chance you have to.

The idea isn't that you need to focus on your inventory when out collecting but that its a dangerous world full of conflict(terror). You need to address that, no one will likely disturb you but there is a chance and that chance pushes players in to Social content essentially. Players may provide protection services or people will group to collect to ensure safety or be aware of the other players and maybe be a little more friendly etc. Its simply not as simple as "other players want to kill me while I collect flowers and that's silly". Its that with out that you are sacrificing the core of the game and reducing the need for players to rely on each other.

Even the Nodes are designed to create conflict. So the goal is to create a world that feels in conflict. (Ideally they do add corruption effects to your character when you increase in corruption.) Where you are going out in to the world and your safety isn't guaranteed. When you see a player you ask yourself, who is that? what are they doing? what do they want? If they are corrupted, what do I do ? Did they kill someone that pissed them off or are they just out to cause trouble? You have just entered into conflict simply by being there.

People should be very clear that this is NOT a progression train that you hop on and off with no need to interact with other players and even when you do they might as well be AI for the value that it brings to the experience. I think In-fact you are most likely to prefer bots because the players tend to gravitate towards toxic behavior with a " if you slow me down you are hurting me and now I am pissed off" style of development. When i say Modern MMO's/RPGs feel empty it barely seems to even scratch the surface.

I played Wayfinder and that games feels so dam empty just like so many before it, for what it is its probably decent but I am not interested. There are a lot people that are upset that T&L has auto-play but because there is such a focus on just instant gratification that players and companies seem to just assume that anything outside that wont work, they design games that are one breath away from being AutoPlay. So clearly Autoplay was the next logical step.

Which is probably why it takes someone like Steven Shariff to change things. Remember WoW had 0 experience going in to making their MMO with only a vision and not enough money, before WoW they made RTS's and Action RPGs in a world where gaming itself was certainly not mainstream. If anyone remembers how silly their launch was and how little content the game had it would probably blow them away. It took them a full year or more to even get their servers in line. Either way they developed a game that everyone wanted to play for that time. Everyone projected a massive failure. They came out on top because their vision of WOW at that time hit the right chord.

Despite being the most popular MMORPG to date Blizzard are also oddly enough the last developer anyone should talk to before making their own MMORPG. They made what they made and that worked for them and that's it, even recently though it seems they don't understand why anyone keeps playing their own game.

Main Point is this, stop focusing on if this game is PVP or PVE, they operate together to achieve a larger goal from a Man who made a world as a Dungeon Master and wants to see that world live. Telling him to reduce the conflict points would be like telling GRR Martin to stop killing characters.

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Ludullu

blat wrote: »

Ha fairplay. I'm new round here. The "more loot, less loot" thing though... come on, gotta be.

He's technically not wrong. You do drop less per death. He just doesn't accept the concept of "pvpers die more often, so they lose more stuff overall". And that's cause of his dug in opinions

blat

NiKr wrote: »

blat wrote: »

Ha fairplay. I'm new round here. The "more loot, less loot" thing though... come on, gotta be.

He's technically not wrong. You do drop less per death. He just doesn't accept the concept of "pvpers die more often, so they lose more stuff overall". And that's cause of his dug in opinions

Well it was more the correction that "you don't actually drop more loot if green, you drop less if purple". Lols ok mate.

He's going off the arbitrary wording of the rules. It's obviously all relative though.

Combatants drop X
Non-combatants drop 2X
Corrupted drop 8X + gear

Ludullu

blat wrote: »

Combatants drop X
Non-combatants drop 2X
Corrupted drop 8X + gear

The green value is the base one, because everyone starts green. Purples drop LESS, which is why Dygz is technically correct.

blat

NiKr wrote: »

The green value is the base one, because everyone is starts green. Purples drop LESS, which is why Dygz is technically correct.

Haha well, I never argued it wasn't the base. Not that the base value makes any difference at all here (it being a relativistic statement).
The line was:

Aszkalon wrote: »

Especially because You drop more Loot if you get killed without resisting.

Which is totally correct.

Ludullu

blat wrote: »

The line was:

Aszkalon wrote: »

Especially because You drop more Loot if you get killed without resisting.

Which is totally correct.

Ah, I finally get what you mean. I missed that Dygz' comment was a response.

Yeah, I think he was just talking about the "98%" dying, and due to him considering them pvpers - they'd die flagged (in his example).

In other words, this was just a misunderstanding/misspeaking.

blat

Yeah no worries. He was just "Dygging" someone out over some arbitrary semantic bs is all, I'm a bit weak for those.

Yours is a good point though, just a different one. It should reassure the PvEers. I love a bit of pvp but don't fancy those corruption penalties myself. So even if non-combatants die the odd time, it'd be nothing compared to combatants... and as you say, the drop penalties will cumulatively be far larger for combatants.

Dygz

Fiddlez wrote: »

If the game is good it won't matter. Tarkov created its own sub genre. I also figured out after everyone foretold WoWs failure that people generally don't have a clue.

The only evidence is old 20 year old games and a P2W. Which just goes to show that there is really no game like AoC being developed so we will just have to see.

It's just a fact that if it's good, people.wont give a crap about any of it, same way tarkov on paper sounds horrendous but in reality...

People will give a crap.
Playstyles don't change much.
There are plenty of games out and in development that are a better fit for the majority of MMORPG players than the PvP-centric game Steven is developing. That would not have been true if Ashes had released before 2020.
But, Ashes will be a great game for gamers who enjoy PvP-centric MMORPGs. It will be successful enough.

Aszkalon

Dygz wrote: »

Because +98% of Ashes players will be gamers who enjoy PvP-centric MMORPGs, like Lineage II, ArcheAge and EvE (and ShadowBane).

You don't actually drop more loot than dying from pure PvE if you are Green.
You drop less loot than dying from pure PvE if you are Purple.

You drop the Loot to Players. Not to PvE.

I am sure +98% of the Community will be able to get that into their Head. Or are random PvE Open World Mobs looting your Pockets next after Players ? For like no Reason ? lol

Dygz

You drop Resources when you die.
What you mean is that mobs do not pick up dropped items.

hleV

I wouldn't be opposed to mobs of certain "intelligence" grabbing some of your loot if no player does that in a given timeframe, and then drop it all upon death. Would be a pretty original mechanic.

blat

hleV wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to mobs of certain "intelligence" grabbing some of your loot if no player does that in a given timeframe, and then drop it all upon death. Would be a pretty original mechanic.

Ha I like that. Frantically hunting the mobs in the area to find the things you dropped.

Azherae

blat wrote: »

hleV wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to mobs of certain "intelligence" grabbing some of your loot if no player does that in a given timeframe, and then drop it all upon death. Would be a pretty original mechanic.

Ha I like that. Frantically hunting the mobs in the area to find the things you dropped.

So... MineCraft?

I guess MineCraft mobs technically take your gear first...

Aszkalon

Dygz wrote: »

You drop Resources when you die.
What you mean is that mobs do not pick up dropped items.

AH !!! Thanks for clarifying. 🫡

Ludullu

hleV wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to mobs of certain "intelligence" grabbing some of your loot if no player does that in a given timeframe, and then drop it all upon death. Would be a pretty original mechanic.

I would highly prefer that

Azherae wrote: »

So... MineCraft?

I guess MineCraft mobs technically take your gear first...

Once again Minecraft proves to be the best game

Best action combat, best pve interactions, best sandbox gameplay. I think Intrepid should just remake Minecraft

Otr

NiKr wrote: »

hleV wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to mobs of certain "intelligence" grabbing some of your loot if no player does that in a given timeframe, and then drop it all upon death. Would be a pretty original mechanic.

I would highly prefer that

Azherae wrote: »

So... MineCraft?

I guess MineCraft mobs technically take your gear first...

Once again Minecraft proves to be the best game Best action combat, best pve interactions, best sandbox gameplay. I think Intrepid should just remake Minecraft

Mojang would never add Creepers today.
Their philosophy shifted toward protecting players and their constructions.
Creepers are griefers. And endermen too.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

Mojang would never add Creepers today.
Their philosophy shifted toward protecting players and their constructions.
Creepers are griefers. And endermen too.

Once again we're hit with the soft-padded walls of the current game design

Though DD2 kinda shows that people still love that shit. So it's more of a symptom of "muh fucking capitalism" than a true "games with that design will definitely fail". Which in turn gives me a slightly stronger hope that Ashes can be fairly successful, even if "majority' sees its design as "bad".

Otr

NiKr wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Mojang would never add Creepers today.
Their philosophy shifted toward protecting players and their constructions.
Creepers are griefers. And endermen too.

Once again we're hit with the soft-padded walls of the current game design

Though DD2 kinda shows that people still love that shit. So it's more of a symptom of "muh fucking capitalism" than a true "games with that design will definitely fail". Which in turn gives me a slightly stronger hope that Ashes can be fairly successful, even if "majority' sees its design as "bad".

Yes, they have a dedicated place on discord where you can submit suggestions and some players ended up there acting as "gatekeepers", commenting on many suggestions and telling why some do not fit the vanilla game.
While there are many suggestions trying to make the game more dangerous, it is obvious that the game ended up being played by builders and redstoners more than by survivalists. The game is not that hard and when you want a better survival experience you either switch to modpacks or you play better survival dedicated games.

Dygz

LMAO
Yes. I am currently playing Nightingale as if it's a casual-challenge RPG.
It's among my Top 5 favorite games.
(And I typically don't enjoy Survival Games much.)

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