Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

Why are you watching a video that claims it takes 100K hours to finish a Battlepass as if it's anything beyond clickbait farce??

Btw, I forgot to ask. You mentioned that you cleared BP in just 2 weeks back when you missed the start of the season. How much time did you spend on playing the game a day during those 2 weeks?

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

Nope. Due to the Open Seas, I won't really be playing Ashes.
Only thing I will be doing is exploring as much of the map as possible with the lowest Level(s) I can maintain - and 0 Kills.

So, that means I won't be participating in any activity that could resuly in me going above 0 Kills.
And I also won't be doing anything other than exploration that could increase Levels.

But, everything we do in the game helps increase Nodes, I think.
I guess that should include exploring - I dunno.

Some people would like to destroy the castles you build

Anyways the Alpha 2 may be longer than we think and you will test.

Mag7spy

bloodprophet wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWIEdSDVmQY

You are watching too much YouTube you are going to get brain rot. All these videos are for click bait views. Unless you are agree with him Halo should be free with 0 monetization. You are trying to live in a echo chamber.

Which at this point you should just ask IS to make AoC free with 0 monetization. Random youtube videos are not helping any point, just shows me how bad takes they have.

I find your emotional attachment to Steven's wallet ....interesting.
Personally I hope this game is so successful Steven becomes a Billinoaire from it.

Several times, several of us have asked why this is a good thing and so far money is your best answer.

I am still working to understand why it is ok for companies to take content that should be in the game and put it behind a paywall outside of the game.

People save money form battle passes so idk what you are on about. You sound more emotionally attached than me as for me it doesn't matter if they have a BP or not. But I'm not going to be surprised or mad, about it in the slightest.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

People save money form battle passes so idk what you are on about. You sound more emotionally attached than me as for me it doesn't matter if they have a BP or not. But I'm not going to be surprised or mad, about it in the slightest.

And what if cosmetics were simply priced at the same value as the BP's cosmetics are? Wouldn't people save money in that situation as well?

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

I never thought ud be into fortnite. this is so surprising to me. like do u actually log in and kill people?

PvP is OK sometimes. When I get to choose that I'm going to PvP - rather than some other player deciding I have to PvP - even when I'm not in the mood for PvP.

I'm playing LEGO Fortnite. A few months after release, LEGO Fortnite added a PvP option you can turn on, but of course I have that turned off.

When I played vanilla Fortnite 6+ years ago, it was Save The World.
They didn't have the Battle Royale yet. And I think they had Loot Boxes; not a Battlepass.

During the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Chapter earlier this year (Jan-Feb?), I jumped into the BR for a bit, but I played it pretty much exactly the same way I played APOC - focusing mostly on the non-combat Tasks on the Battlepass, but occassionally killing people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5dwP2jtCrA

You sound so much younger!

Depraved

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

People save money form battle passes so idk what you are on about. You sound more emotionally attached than me as for me it doesn't matter if they have a BP or not. But I'm not going to be surprised or mad, about it in the slightest.

And what if cosmetics were simply priced at the same value as the BP's cosmetics are? Wouldn't people save money in that situation as well?

no because battle passes give you things other than cosmetics as well.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

People save money form battle passes so idk what you are on about. You sound more emotionally attached than me as for me it doesn't matter if they have a BP or not. But I'm not going to be surprised or mad, about it in the slightest.

And what if cosmetics were simply priced at the same value as the BP's cosmetics are? Wouldn't people save money in that situation as well?

There is multiple purposes for the battel pass, you are trading saving money with being active on the game for a certain amount. And not just logging on buying things on sale and jumping off.

Mag7spy

Otr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

I never thought ud be into fortnite. this is so surprising to me. like do u actually log in and kill people?

PvP is OK sometimes. When I get to choose that I'm going to PvP - rather than some other player deciding I have to PvP - even when I'm not in the mood for PvP.

I'm playing LEGO Fortnite. A few months after release, LEGO Fortnite added a PvP option you can turn on, but of course I have that turned off.

When I played vanilla Fortnite 6+ years ago, it was Save The World.
They didn't have the Battle Royale yet. And I think they had Loot Boxes; not a Battlepass.

During the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Chapter earlier this year (Jan-Feb?), I jumped into the BR for a bit, but I played it pretty much exactly the same way I played APOC - focusing mostly on the non-combat Tasks on the Battlepass, but occassionally killing people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5dwP2jtCrA

You sound so much younger!

Honestly prob just a different mic.

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

no because battle passes give you things other than cosmetics as well.

You're now talking about a completely different BP that we've been discussing so far. Mag doesn't want any gameplay influence from BPs and I believe Dygz is fine with purely cosmetic BPs. And I've been talking about purely cosmetic BPs so far.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

There is multiple purposes for the battel pass, you are trading saving money with being active on the game for a certain amount. And not just logging on buying things on sale and jumping off.

Again, BP doesn't do shit, expect for giving rewards and pointing towards content. The game will already have the content. NPCs can point towards it through dialogue. Free cosmetic rewards will already be the case, and more can be added during seasonal updates. Paid cosmetics can simply vary in prices, from those that cost the same as the BP's would've, and some that are pricier.

Literally everything is the same, people pay the same low price, but there's no BP.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Why are you watching a video that claims it takes 100K hours to finish a Battlepass as if it's anything beyond clickbait farce??

Btw, I forgot to ask. You mentioned that you cleared BP in just 2 weeks back when you missed the start of the season. How much time did you spend on playing the game a day during those 2 weeks?

I cleared the BP in about 80-100 hours.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

I cleared the BP in about 80-100 hours.

Which means that you played ~7h a day during those weeks? Which is far from anything casual-time.

Which then implies that, in order for casual players to make full use of the BP - they gotta play daily. Otherwise they'd need to play more than casually.

And this is one of the reasons why people keep saying that BPs have dailies. Because their structure inherently rewards daily gameplay. Fortnite's current BP rewards 60k XP for doing dailies. And you need 90k XP a day, if you want to clear the BP within its season.

And here's an example from 2 years ago.

Both of the first 2 require you to survive a fight with another player, which requires skill. And the third one requires you to either find an abandoned player structure or destroy one during a fight (which also requires skill). And that's 20 pieces of buildings as well, so it might take some time if your skill is low or if you're unlucky.

If you could screenshot your dailies from the Lego version of the game, that'd help show the other side of the game, cause I assume BR's dailies are usually smth along these lines.

And unless Ashes rewards BP XP for purely login into the game - people's gameplay might not match the daily quests. Yes, there are random mini tasks that you can do, but those don't reward the same amount of XP as dailies. And if they did reward as much - they'd probably have to be limited in daily quantity, so that people don't burst through the BP in a day (which defeats your presented purpose for BPs).

Otr

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

I cleared the BP in about 80-100 hours.

Which means that you played ~7h a day during those weeks? Which is far from anything casual-time.

That's normal. Get out of here.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

There is multiple purposes for the battel pass, you are trading saving money with being active on the game for a certain amount. And not just logging on buying things on sale and jumping off.

Again, BP doesn't do shit, expect for giving rewards and pointing towards content. The game will already have the content. NPCs can point towards it through dialogue. Free cosmetic rewards will already be the case, and more can be added during seasonal updates. Paid cosmetics can simply vary in prices, from those that cost the same as the BP's would've, and some that are pricier.

Literally everything is the same, people pay the same low price, but there's no BP.

No, you're definitely missing a really meaningful difference here, or at least, if not, you're willing to accept a thing that I think would make Dygz and Mag7 right, in my group's view...

The BP is a simple, consolidated place to see all the tasks and the rewards without having to slowly work it all out 'organically'. It's a checklist that remains.

This makes it different from missions/commissions because of that. You don't have to 'find the NPC', you don't have to 'wait for people to run around and randomly find the quest-starter and tell you where it is'. You just come back to the game after however long, even just your day of work, and open the BP menu and immediately you get the "I have goals now".

Do you want an NPC that does this exact function? Because this is the thing non-BP games are not providing to players, so even the minimally invasive, completely ignorable BP (all cosmetics, just getting cosmetics early and avoiding some RNG, etc) is doing this function.

If I had to choose between a single NPC who does this (or even a building full of different NPCs who do it), or a menu-based battlepass, I'll grudgingly take the BP.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

If I had to choose between a single NPC who does this (or even a building full of different NPCs who do it), or a menu-based battlepass, I'll grudgingly take the BP.

As I see it, bulletin boards serve this precise purpose. And node-type-related boards would serve different player purposes. A player chooses a node based on their preferred gameplay (pvp, mercantile actions, questing, general explorative stuff) and the boards would provide a set of random tasks that would direct daily actions of that player.

While doing those tasks, the player would also get random events out in the wild or come across people/npcs/quests that might interest them and lead them to more activities. All of this is doable w/o any groups of people, so would apply to solo players too.

This is one of the main reasons why I'm against a BP in Ashes. We already have a tool that can serve all of BP's purposes, especially if Intrepid tie cosmetics acquisition to those tasks.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If I had to choose between a single NPC who does this (or even a building full of different NPCs who do it), or a menu-based battlepass, I'll grudgingly take the BP.

As I see it, bulletin boards serve this precise purpose. And node-type-related boards would serve different player purposes. A player chooses a node based on their preferred gameplay (pvp, mercantile actions, questing, general explorative stuff) and the boards would provide a set of random tasks that would direct daily actions of that player.

While doing those tasks, the player would also get random events out in the wild or come across people/npcs/quests that might interest them and lead them to more activities. All of this is doable w/o any groups of people, so would apply to solo players too.

This is one of the main reasons why I'm against a BP in Ashes. We already have a tool that can serve all of BP's purposes, especially if Intrepid tie cosmetics acquisition to those tasks.

A Bulletin board is per-node.

So it doesn't help a certain demographic in the same way.

It doesn't get pirates/privateers to come to shore. It doesn't get miners or processors who spend long periods out in the mountains near a Freehold to move. It doesn't affect people who camp out at dungeons as guides unless they log in on an alt.

If you want Bulletin Boards to be magically 'subscribe-able', then I'll take that over the BP (note, not for me, I'm the equivalent of the person who puts things ON the Bulletin board and I still don't care, even if less people see it because they would have to go into the Node for it).

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

It doesn't get pirates/privateers to come to shore. It doesn't get miners or processors who spend long periods out in the mountains near a Freehold to move. It doesn't affect people who camp out at dungeons as guides unless they log in on an alt.

But wouldn't those kinds of people be the very ones who don't need a BP? All of those types of gameplay require you to just do that kind of gameplay, or at the very least know what you're doing in the game.

If BP gives them some randomized tasks that require them to move away from their preferred gameplay - what's the difference from them just visiting a nearby node?

I'd personally also prefer if bulletin boards could provide quite a few tasks at the same time, so players could load up a ton of them and have leftovers for future days if they don't clear everything in one gameplay session.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Which means that you played ~7h a day during those weeks? Which is far from anything casual-time.

Which then implies that, in order for casual players to make full use of the BP - they gotta play daily. Otherwise they'd need to play more than casually.

I told you before....
Battlepass is 100 hours in 12 weeks.
Which is about ~9 hours per week.

I skipped the first couple of months because I was playing Nightingale.
So. No. You do not have to play daily - unless you wait until the very last couple of weeks.

NiKr wrote: »

And this is one of the reasons why people keep saying that BPs have dailies. Because their structure inherently rewards daily gameplay. Fortnite's current BP rewards 60k XP for doing a daily. And you need 90k XP a day, if you want to clear the BP within its season.

I explained that to you already.
There are Daily Tasks.
But, I didn't play for the first 10 weeks, so I missed 10 weeks of Dailies and I was still able to complete the Battlepass.
Primarily because each Weekly gives much more XP than a Daily. And I was able to complete 4 Weeks of LEGO Weeklies in 2 Weeks.

There are more Tasks than just the Dailies.
There are also Weeklies.
There are also Milestones.
There's also BP XP exploration.
Also... I think you're probably just looking at the BR Dailies (from 2 years ago??)
Here are today's BR Dailies:

There are also Dailies in the LEGO Mode.

There are also Dailies in the Rocket Racing Mode.

There are also Dailies in the Fortnite Festival Mode.

They all contribute to the Main Battlepass progression.
Also, I just noticed a Fortnite Festival Battlepass with a free and paid track.
Many, many different ways to play Fortnite and gain xp on the Main Battlepass.

Like I said...
On the new Battlepass which began Friday... I jumped into LEGO Fortnite to build a Wasteland fortress gate.
And I hit Level 5/100 on the Main Battlepass in 45 minutes without even checking to see what any of the Dailies and Weeklies were.

NiKr wrote: »

Both of the first 2 require you to survive a fight with another player, which requires skill. And the third one requires you to either find an abandoned player structure or destroy one during a fight (which also requires skill). And that's 20 pieces of buildings as well, so it might take some time if your skill is low or if you're unlucky.

LMAO
It's kinda cute the way you try to tell me how the Fortnite BR and the Fortnite BP work - when you haven't played them!!

Skill is not required to survive a fight. As you can see from my APOC video.
Also, you don't have to be in a fight to Restore Shields or Restore Health.
There are other ways to damage Shields and lose Health besides being in a fight.
That being said....running away also works for taking damage and then Restoring both Shields and Health.

NiKr wrote: »

If you could screenshot your dailies from the Lego version of the game, that'd help show the other side of the game, cause I assume BR's dailies are usually smth along these lines.

I mean... for some reason you are focused just on the Dailies, but...
Here is a Battle Royale Weekly - I would probably do these before the Dailies:

Here are the Battle Royale Milsestones - it doesn't take skill to complete most of them.
I would save the Eliminate 25 Enemies for last, but it doesn't take much skill to kill 25 players in 3 months.
You can see that I made some progress in one of the Milestones - all I did was jump in and out of a Match to screenshot the Dailies.

NiKr wrote: »

And unless Ashes rewards BP XP for purely login into the game - people's gameplay might not match the daily quests. Yes, there are random mini tasks that you can do, but those don't reward the same amount of XP as dailies. And if they did reward as much - they'd probably have to be limited in daily quantity, so that people don't burst through the BP in a day (which defeats your presented purpose for BPs).

I expect there to be some Battlepass XP just for logging in to the game.
Again, Battlepass Tasks are much more than just a handful of Dailies. And a Handful of Weeklies.
Which is why I told you that they don't really fit well with a Bulletin Board UI (also because Complete xx Bulletin Board Tasks would probably be a BP Task).
There are some gates on the BP that limit how quickly they can be finished.
But, it's still going to be 80-100 hours in 3 months. And that is about 9 hours per week.
Which is pretty Casual gaming time.

I also told you before that if there is a Task I'm not interested in doing, I just ignore it.
You don't have to complete all the Tasks.
You don't have to complete every Daily Task. You don't have to complete every Weekly Task.
Just do the Tasks you like - some you will complete even without looking at what the Tasks are.
Or ignore the BP.

Otr

NiKr wrote: »

From what I've seen of Minecraft's plain gameplay I'd imagine I'd play it in the same way.

In Minecraft pigs can fly

https://youtu.be/i5IhxDoA6KU?t=1267

Azherae

NiKr, what you have done in this convo is equated 'playing a game as designed' with 'playing a game as intended'.

So I'm going to say that Dygz is right that you're specifically not getting it.

You consistently speak about the BP as if it is a thing that affects the way players play the game, and possibly is rewarding enough to disrupt their playstyle.

It is absolutely accurate that modern BP from basically any sensible company do not do that. And you can burst through the BP quickly a lot of the time.

YouTube content is often, as Dygz says, skewed, by the fact that people who have a specific mindset, experience them a specific way, then conclude they should be done differently, better, etc. Those people are often 'not experiencing the BP as intended'.

The only way a BP affects Ashes negatively based on that, is if they move real content out of it, which isn't a thing that modern BPs do.

You now have reference for the sort of thing BPs require, the Ashes ones would probably be even 'flatter'. And tiered.

"Visit 1 Node." - 10 BPXP
Next tier in that slot 'Visit 3 Nodes'. - 25 BPXP

"Walk 1000 Units." - 10 BPXP

That sort of stuff.

Sure you can design bad versions of even these, but as much as I hate them, it's hard to argue that this approach of 'hey we'll remind you that there's stuff to do in our game' will ruin it other than maybe 'retaining players with mindsets that some don't like'.

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