Do you actually want the other non-voting election methods?

What with Steven saying we won't get any other election method than voting at the start of alpha 2, it got me thinking about if I even care if they ever implement the other types.

It's a bit of a mixed bag for me, tbh.

The Economic node one, where the mayor is determined by the highest blind bidder is the least interesting to me. And the biggest downside is how it incentivizes RMT.

The Military node's trial by combat might be fun, but it really comes down to how well they implement it obviously. It's probably the one with the least downsides of the three non-voting methods I think, if they nail the implementation.

The Divine node's PvE favor based system is something I on the surface would be more likely to be successful at with my playstyle and time I can spend on it, but it also sounds exhausting and grindy if you want to be mayor more than one month in a row. The constant grind might kill the enjoyment for me, and there won't be much time to actually spend on being a good mayor, and dealing with all the politics.

All three methods suffer from the same thing, which is that the election methods require little to no political and leadership skills. Odds are we'll get people who are good at doing one of those three things, but suck at doing the actual job of being a mayor.

Obviously, we'll test it and see how it goes, but my current feeling is that I would be ok if Intrepid end up completely dropping the non-voting election methods.

Thoughts?

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Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

If me and my guild decide that we want to be mayor of a military node with Champions as the deciding mechanic, we would obviously go out of our way to prevent others from gearing up their champion.

Sure, we never got any info at all on it, but since everything else in Ashes needs the backing of a lot of people, I see no reason why that would have been any different.

Ashes really isn't a game for the solo player.

It could be a "dojo attack tour" with instances inside node centers. A player gotta go to all the military nodes and fight in an increasingly difficult instances, earning points along the way. And on weekends there could be randomized tourneys with points on the line, where champions fight each other in the current biggest military node (this would also be viewable by other players, so it would be a spectacle as well).

And by the end of the month the players can use those points to enter elections of their preferred military node (level of the node determining the minimum amount of points required to enter the election). And then a seeded tournament happens to determine the best player out of each node.

Of course a group of players could go around and earn points and then try to overwhelm the election of their chosen node, but if there's even a single stronger player than that group in the tourney - the group is fucked.

And unless you camp every single military node on the server throughout all hours of weekly tourneys and across all waking hours of dojo attacks - ya ain't preventing that shit.

In other words, there's definitely ways to solo it up.

Otr wrote: »

But if the best fighter can become mayor, it means the best 20 players on server can hold mayor position forever month after month in all military nodes.
We need a bit more dynamic.

Everything is already dynamic by default. If these strongest players do in fact hold the mayorship for a long time, while also being shitty mayors - the citizens can ask other nodes to siege them or they can go farm somewhere else so that the node decays on its own, or try bartering with other strong players in hopes of removing their mayor.

Also, this would be literally do different from all the other node types. Economic node can be bought up by the same group every month. Scientific is literally controlled by a majority group, so that's never changing if that group holds the majority of citizenships. Divine node can be controlled by an acc-shared hardcore quester group, and ya ain't changing them out too.

As Steven keeps saying "pvp changes the world". If something stagnates - put up a fight in some way

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

If me and my guild decide that we want to be mayor of a military node with Champions as the deciding mechanic, we would obviously go out of our way to prevent others from gearing up their champion.

Sure, we never got any info at all on it, but since everything else in Ashes needs the backing of a lot of people, I see no reason why that would have been any different.

Ashes really isn't a game for the solo player.

It could be a "dojo attack tour" with instances inside node centers. A player gotta go to all the military nodes and fight in an increasingly difficult instances, earning points along the way. And on weekends there could be randomized tourneys with points on the line, where champions fight each other in the current biggest military node (this would also be viewable by other players, so it would be a spectacle as well).

As a system for selecting a mayor of a singular military node, this doesn't work.

Otr

NiKr wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

But if the best fighter can become mayor, it means the best 20 players on server can hold mayor position forever month after month in all military nodes.
We need a bit more dynamic.

Everything is already dynamic by default. If these strongest players do in fact hold the mayorship for a long time, while also being shitty mayors - the citizens can ask other nodes to siege them or they can go farm somewhere else so that the node decays on its own, or try bartering with other strong players in hopes of removing their mayor.

Also, this would be literally do different from all the other node types. Economic node can be bought up by the same group every month. Scientific is literally controlled by a majority group, so that's never changing if that group holds the majority of citizenships. Divine node can be controlled by an acc-shared hardcore quester group, and ya ain't changing them out too.

As Steven keeps saying "pvp changes the world". If something stagnates - put up a fight in some way

Reality is that there are solo players, small guilds and big guilds.
We should not create a system where solo players can force themselves into a mayor position because even if things can be changed by asking someone stronger to help, we still invite the situation where the top individuals know they are the top and will grab that place.

What I would do is to decide
- if we want small guilds to have a chance or large guilds to have an advantage get the mayor position for one of their members (which might not be the guild leader and that could already be an issue)
- how we can achieve what we decided above

Being an open world game, I think number must play a role.
Artificial rules can be set to help small guilds but then it would be better if they get benefits by being supported by other small guilds too, to prevent the large guild create a single small one for this purpose. And the game should prevent/slow down reorganizing guilds to game the system. Shouldn't be hard to detect that everyone is leaving a large guild and tries to join a small one.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

As a system for selecting a mayor of a singular military node, this doesn't work.

Like I said, the system of selection itself is the final tournament. Everything before that is "proving that you're strong enough to deserve the participation".

How is this any different from the economic elections where an absolutely random dude from the other side of the world can come to a node, buy a citizenship and then buy the mayorship?

And if we do require the exclusive node currency on top of the election method itself - my idea could be related to military's node influence or relations to other military nodes, because its citizens are going around and proving the strength of the node by "crushing dojos".

And we could have all kind of inter-node relations based on that.

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Aszkalon

NiKr wrote: »

It could be a "dojo attack tour" with instances inside node centers. A player gotta go to all the military nodes

Ohhhhh. A "Journey" to prove one's own Strength in Battle in different Military Nodes ? I definitely sign this Idea as a nice Concept for military Node Leaders.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

And we could have all kind of inter-node relations based on that.

This is the problem.

Inter-node relations should not be a part of mayor selection.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

This is the problem.

Inter-node relations should not be a part of mayor selection.

If we forget about the guilds just overtaking nodes, Scientific elections could very well depend on the contender's relationship with other mayors. Economic - same, because fast trade agreements will most likely benefit the node. Military nodes could have some defensive/offensive agreements between each other, so those relations would matter as well. Divines might be the only ones disconnected from inter-node relations, but that's only if the questing required for mayorship doesn't take you outside of the node.

In other words, mayors do not exist in a vacuum, nor do nodes themselves. If I lived in a scientific node that was usually raided by people, cause it has good content, and the new mayor contender had great relationships with a mayor of a big node and promised he'd get their help with the raids - I'd definitely be way more willing to vote for him than for someone who has no such connections.

Though again, the relations themselves will still only matter after the fact. The contenders' activity itself will simply be going around and doing instances during the week and joining a pvp tournament on weekends. We have no clue what the node currency might require us to do. It could just be "kill members of other nodes", which would be the same kind of inter-node relationship stuff, except even more direct in its influence.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

This is the problem.

Inter-node relations should not be a part of mayor selection.

If we forget about the guilds just overtaking nodes, Scientific elections could very well depend on the contender's relationship with other mayors.

I see no reason to expect this to be the case.

With economic nodes, sure, relations with other nodes may help in setting uo trade routes, but that then benefits everyone in the node to make more money, not just the mayor.

That said, it is unlikely that trade routes will be the key to top tier player wealth anyway.

You are right that nodes don't exist in a vacuum - but elections and other selection methods do/should.

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