Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Legi

Mag7spy wrote: »

Legi wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.

My experience with battle passes is, that they offer something unique to the battle pass and and for a limited time only. So if you want it, you have to get the BP and have to finish the BP in that specific timeframe.
Items in stores usually dont disappear, so no fomo there. Excpetions might be items for special events like christmas, halloween or such and those special items prey on fomo as well.

I dont know what doesnt make sense there. Its just what the phrase means.

If all items are in the shop forever its totally fine. If you want to have sales from time to time for those items thats imo totally fine as well. If the BP only includes stuff you could also buy in the shop but at a discounted price, thats fine too.

There are many ways to give players a fair option to buy stuff without artificially creating fomo or making stuff rare and BPs, atleast the way they are usually implemented, arent one of them.

AS i said earlier in the post, it could easily be done the same way as wayfinder (which i think is fair as you have to pay a sub for the game). If you buy a BP it doesn't expire but you can only be leveling up one BP at a time. Rewards are unique to the BP but that can change 1+ year down the road. No reason to not sell past battlepass items in however they want to do it.

If BPs wont expire and you can always go back to level them (one at a time) I dont have anything against them.

I still dont like cosmetic stores in mmorpgs but I understand that they have to earn money somehow and a 12 dollar/euro sub isnt worth as much anymore as it was back in the day. I dont know why they cant just raise it, you know to battle inflation but well. That is as you stated another topic and something you probably just have to deal with nowadays.

Mag7spy

Legi wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Legi wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.

My experience with battle passes is, that they offer something unique to the battle pass and and for a limited time only. So if you want it, you have to get the BP and have to finish the BP in that specific timeframe.
Items in stores usually dont disappear, so no fomo there. Excpetions might be items for special events like christmas, halloween or such and those special items prey on fomo as well.

I dont know what doesnt make sense there. Its just what the phrase means.

If all items are in the shop forever its totally fine. If you want to have sales from time to time for those items thats imo totally fine as well. If the BP only includes stuff you could also buy in the shop but at a discounted price, thats fine too.

There are many ways to give players a fair option to buy stuff without artificially creating fomo or making stuff rare and BPs, atleast the way they are usually implemented, arent one of them.

AS i said earlier in the post, it could easily be done the same way as wayfinder (which i think is fair as you have to pay a sub for the game). If you buy a BP it doesn't expire but you can only be leveling up one BP at a time. Rewards are unique to the BP but that can change 1+ year down the road. No reason to not sell past battlepass items in however they want to do it.

If BPs wont expire and you can always go back to level them (one at a time) I dont have anything against them.

I still dont like cosmetic stores in mmorpgs but I understand that they have to earn money somehow and a 12 dollar/euro sub isnt worth as much anymore as it was back in the day. I dont know why they cant just raise it, you know to battle inflation but well. That is as you stated another topic and something you probably just have to deal with nowadays.

Because mmorpgs now a days avoid subs, a casual player is more likely to go with the free to play model and not worry about having to pay monthly. Of course that's not a 100% but the higher the number the higher the barrier to entry. Meaning less people playing the game so less revenue on that front and less store purchases.

Both methods have draw backs, but increasing sub cost would have a pretty negative impact and more people would just play wow cause its cheaper. It wouldn't be a good look or good heath for AoC imo.

The fact we have no p2w and we earn things in game playing normally is the biggest blessing. For battlepass and store, i could care less about that and them making money when we already have it good. And i highly doubt any new game is going to raise the bar higher than AoC atm.

Legi

Yeah, people rather play a f2p game and cry about p2w while swiping than picking a common sense option.

I mean there is a reason companies do it. I think Thor said it in one of his shorts. Blizzard made more money with a single mount from the wow cash shop than with the whole starcraft 2 project. Think about it, this is sad as hell.

I am happy about Stevens stance against p2w and that he will ban players who RMT too. Other than that you wont win the battle against bots, especially when you dont have box cost.

But we are drifting off topic here. Guess we are on the same page or atelast in the same book when it comes to those topics anyway. Would be nice to avoid em, but money has to come from somewhere and this is the way that has the least impact on gameplay.

Dygz

Legi wrote: »

You do realize that you can just cancel your sub every month and pay month to month? How is that predatory?

Because there is no option for active month-to-month sub, rather than recurring month-to-month.
And it can take a month or more to realize you haven't been playing.

Legi wrote: »

Imo creating fomo, which modern battle passes do, cause you often cant get the stuff from the BP outside of it, is predatory.

How is the free BP path predatory? You also can't get BiS gear without doing Dungeons and Raids.
And you can always choose to not pay for the paid BP path, just as you can choose not to pay for a sub.

Legi wrote: »

Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.

I think I'd rather talk to BiS gear addicts. BiS gear is designed to be more addictive than Battlepasses.
Loot Boxes included "gambling". Modern BPs do not.

Legi wrote: »

So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.

Modern Battlepasses don't have fomo.
The use of "everyone" makes your argument invalid and mostly meaningless.
Some people can be addicted to food. That does not mean that food should not be available for peaople to eat.
Just because some people can become addicted to alcohol does not mean that alcohol is designed to be addictive and also does not mean that alcohol should not be available for people to consume.
Playing a video game for the BP Cosmetics is no more addictive than playing a video game for BiS gear - and is not more addicitive than continuing to play just because you like to play.
It's also not more addictive than buying stuff from the Cosmetics/Item Shop at exorbitant prices - especially when typically the cheapest items in the Store are more expensive a paid Battlepass. When the Cosmetics in the Item Shop $10; $15; $25; $50, I would rather pay $10 to earn a bunch of Items rather than pay $25 for one Item.
Even Sub + paid BP is typically going to be $25 total. Most of the items available in the Ashes Store are more than $25. And people paid for stuff in the Ashes Store years before those items were available in the game.
So, I don't understand how a $10 BP is more predatory than an Item Shop.

If anything, I'm addicted to the LEGO Fortnite Item Shop. Not addicted to the Fortnite BP.
I only play enough of the Battlepass to get the stuff I want. I don't always complete the main BP. And, if the Bonus Rewards path - which opens another 100 hours of play for "better" rewards doesn't have stuff I want (LEGO Characters), I ignore the Bonus Rewards track.

Dygz

Legi wrote: »

I still dont like cosmetic stores in mmorpgs but I understand that they have to earn money somehow and a 12 dollar/euro sub isnt worth as much anymore as it was back in the day. I dont know why they cant just raise it, you know to battle inflation but well. That is as you stated another topic and something you probably just have to deal with nowadays.

Right. And Battlepasses are cheaper... and, in my view, better... than Cosmetics Stores because I can get 10+ items on the BP (+ Embers/vBucks/Cosmetics Coins) for less than the price of one item in the Store.

And, we know the current model for Ashes is Sub + Cosmetics Store.
BPs have become popular in the last 5 years, so I expect Ashes to include a BP - especially since most BPs are not P2W.

Dygz

Tetterian wrote: »

Adding Battle Passes which reward cosmetics, companions, and titles removes the potential of achievements and their role for players to play hunt for rewards.

Wait, what?
Battlepass Tasks complement Achievements rather than negate them.

I'm not aware of games that offer Cosmetics and Companions for Achievements and if they did - they would probably have to be designed pretty much like a BP. Because there are too many Achievements to have Cosmetics and Companions for each one. That would take the same amount of time to design and implement as an Expansion, rather than the time it takes to design and implement a Seaonal DLC.

Dygz

Legi wrote: »

My experience with battle passes is, that they offer something unique to the battle pass and and for a limited time only. So if you want it, you have to get the BP and have to finish the BP in that specific timeframe.
Items in stores usually dont disappear, so no fomo there. Excpetions might be items for special events like christmas, halloween or such and those special items prey on fomo as well.

Modern Battlepasses are typically 3 months to complete. 100 hours in 3 months averages ~9 hours per week.
And that is Casual Time for an MMORPG.
You're getting free stuff for playing if it's a free BP.
And, you can choose not purchase the paid path if you think you won't have time to complete it satisfactorily.

Also, Ashes is a dynamic game, so there will be plenty of stuff in the game that are only available for a limited time and then will disappear from that server/world.

Legi wrote: »

There are many ways to give players a fair option to buy stuff without artificially creating fomo or making stuff rare and BPs, at least the way they are usually implemented, arent one of them.

Modern Battlepasses are fair.
Cosmetics Store typically have "exorbitant" prices.
The stuff might always be there, but typically, I'm not going to be purchasing them because I'm only rarely going to pay more than $10 - $15 on an item.
And a paid Battlepass is typically ~$10.

Dygz

Azherae wrote: »

Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?

I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.

No. Because Lootboxes include RNG "gambling". high amount of fomo there.
Modern Battlepasses do not have fomo. You know all the items you can get before you begin playing the BP or before you spend money on for a paid BP.
Also, typically you're earning some form of "coins" you can use to purchase specific items you want - and you don't necessarily have to purchase every item if you wish to ignore some.

BPs have much more control over getting the specific items you want - expecially compard to Loot Boxes - or even compared to hunting for BiS gear. Because the items paths do not have RNG.

Texas

It's page 20 and we are still at: "My battlepass won't suck, I promise, but I'm also not going to be very vague on how it could possibly work." Sure thing, my guy.

Dygz

Texas wrote: »

It's page 20 and we are still at: "My battlepass won't suck, I promise, but I'm also not going to be very vague on how it could possibly work." Sure thing, my guy.

How am I being vague about how Battlepasses work.
I shared a detailed run down of the Fortnite Battlepasses.
And I also explained how the WoW and NW Battelpasses work.

I haven't said anything like "my Battlepass won't suck". Because that's going to be an individual opinion.
I said modern Battlepasses have extremely low fomo - practically none - and that they aren't predatory.
And I haven't been vague about any of that.

Sure, people who don't understand Physics might believe the Earth is flat and the Moon is made of green cheese and that the Sun and stars orbit the Earth - that doesn't mean it's true.
Similarly, just because people who don't understand how modern BPs work think that is reality doesn't mean their beliefs are factual.

Texas

Pretty much everyone has played a game with a battlepass. I'd say the vast majority of them suck in some form whether it be P2W, forcing people to play an activity they don't want to, taking way too long to complete, or just forcing people to log in on a certain day to press button and log out.

They way I understand the Wow BP is there's a litany of activities to do and you basically get shop-lite currency up to a cap for doing basically anything besides AFK for a few hours each month. That's really not what comes to mind with battlepass. So you play normal, get currency, and in a year you get a shop-item for free that you otherwise wouldn't have.

I'm fine with that as far I understand it. It's probably worth more to Intrepid to reward loyal players than it is to sell an additional store cosmetic anyway. With the understanding that it is free and available to the most casual of casuals with at least intermittent but consistent gameplay. I'd do something as simple as a weekly XP bar.

Mag7spy

Texas wrote: »

Pretty much everyone has played a game with a battlepass. I'd say the vast majority of them suck in some form whether it be P2W, forcing people to play an activity they don't want to, taking way too long to complete, or just forcing people to log in on a certain day to press button and log out.

They way I understand the Wow BP is there's a litany of activities to do and you basically get shop-lite currency up to a cap for doing basically anything besides AFK for a few hours each month. That's really not what comes to mind with battlepass. So you play normal, get currency, and in a year you get a shop-item for free that you otherwise wouldn't have.

I'm fine with that as far I understand it. It's probably worth more to Intrepid to reward loyal players than it is to sell an additional store cosmetic anyway. With the understanding that it is free and available to the most casual of casuals with at least intermittent but consistent gameplay. I'd do something as simple as a weekly XP bar.

1. IT was already mentioned no P2W in Aoc
2. It was mentioned you can play the game without being forced to do anything and complete a battlepass as long as you are active. Or skip things you don't want to do (that means if you want to ignore craft food, kill mobs, etc you can)
3. Yes there can be battlepasses that take long to complete, Id also expect that AoC will take long than any battlepass in getting max level and gearing out. So this time thing shouldn't really be a issue.
4. You aren't forced to log in on a day and log out. If you don't want to play the game do not play the game. If you want to play the game play the game this is a dumb take.

Idk how you can suggest weekly XP that is actual fomo right there. And i don't feel casuals will really care about that much, it just be more hardcore players making use of that and getting further ahead.

Aszkalon

... ... ... our Wallets are yet to open ... ... ...

Mag7spy

Aszkalon wrote: »

... ... ... our Wallets are yet to open ... ... ...

What mine is already open else i wouldn't have alpha 2 access lol.

Legi

Dygz wrote: »

Legi wrote: »

You do realize that you can just cancel your sub every month and pay month to month? How is that predatory?

Because there is no option for active month-to-month sub, rather than recurring month-to-month.
And it can take a month or more to realize you haven't been playing.

You do realize that you can instantly cancel after subbing for the month? You can then still play for the rest of the month and dont have to worry about forgetting to cancel. Thats how I handle all my subs. I pay for a month and instantly cancel so I wont pay too much if I stop using whatever I have subbed for.

Dygz wrote: »

Legi wrote: »

Imo creating fomo, which modern battle passes do, cause you often cant get the stuff from the BP outside of it, is predatory.

How is the free BP path predatory?

Because even when you only have the free one, everytime you get something from the free one it shows you all the things you could have gotten if you have paid. I can resist that temptation and it sounds like you can too, but they design it exactly like that because many cant.

Dygz wrote: »

The use of "everyone" makes your argument invalid and mostly meaningless.

Okay then, if you say so.

Dygz wrote: »

Modern Battlepasses don't have fomo.

Dygz wrote: »

Modern Battlepasses are fair.

I dont know which "modern battlepasses" you mean but the ones I know are only there for a limited time and the content of those "modern battlepasses" are unique to those battlepasses. So if you want to get the emotes/skins/whatever from those battlepasses you need to not only to pay but also have to put in the work in this specific timeframe where this BP is active. This is pretty much the definition of fomo.
If we get a BP system like the one Mag7Spy mentioned wayfinder is using im totally cool with it, but the big companies usually dont do them like this.

You keep saying "modern battlepasses" are fair, they dont create fomo and defend them in other ways. Its fine when you like them, I dont and I have explained lengthy why I dont like them and the arguments you are trying to make are not changing my mind there.

After reading back in this topic I start to see NiKrs point I suppose.. so lets safe us some time and agree to disagree? We will see what we get. If we get a BP I hope its one like wayfinder does it. If its different and more fomo creating/predatory I wont like it but will still play Ashes as long as its a good game.

Aszkalon

Mag7spy wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

... ... ... our Wallets are yet to open ... ... ...

What mine is already open else i wouldn't have alpha 2 access lol.

I am aware. I just couldn't resist doing my flat Jokes and abridged Tributes to legendary Quotes. x'D

Only about Three Months left, right Guys ?

Legi

Aszkalon wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

... ... ... our Wallets are yet to open ... ... ...

What mine is already open else i wouldn't have alpha 2 access lol.

I am aware. I just couldn't resist doing my flat Jokes and abridged Tributes to legendary Quotes. x'D

Only about Three Months left, right Guys ?

Wdym, 3rd quarter starts in 3 1/2 weeks.

Dygz

Texas wrote: »

Pretty much everyone has played a game with a battlepass. I'd say the vast majority of them suck in some form whether it be P2W, forcing people to play an activity they don't want to, taking way too long to complete, or just forcing people to log in on a certain day to press button and log out.

I might agree with you that most BPs suck.
The BPs implemented prior to 2019 probably all suck. Because they were designed the way you describe: If you skip a Daily Task, you get sent back to the beginning of the Pass and you have no chance to reach the final reward.

Modern BPs don’t do that.

Texas wrote: »

They way I understand the Wow BP is there's a litany of activities to do and you basically get shop-lite currency up to a cap for doing basically anything besides AFK for a few hours each month. That's really not what comes to mind with battlepass. So you play normal, get currency, and in a year you get a shop-item for free that you otherwise wouldn't have.

What?
LMAO
You get 500 Tender at the start of each month of opening the Adventurer’s path. Which means you can buy a Robe and a Hat immediately or buy Gloves and Boots immediately: 2 or 3 of the cheaper items available.
As NiKr stated, some items are 750T or 900T
So, you might have to wait until the end of your BP run before you earn an item with high value.
And, if you don’t finish that month, you can save the item you want for a later month.

I would be happy to spend 3 months working on BP Tasks to earn 3K Tender if I could purchase a Stufferton.
Similar to how gamers might be happy to spend 3 months hunting BiS gear.

I had plenty of time to earn 1K Tender before the end of the month. And I was only buying cheap items, like a Robe, Boots, Gloves and some emotes.
I played for a month doing a lot of stuff I like to do (while ignoring the stuff I don’t like to do) and I got a bunch of cool stuff that I liked.
That is a Win/Win.
I think that was Feb and Mar 2023.
Then, either New World dropped the Season that added amounts or Diablo IV dropped and Fantm wanted me to play D IV with him, so…
It’s been over a year since I’ve played WoW.

Texas wrote: »

I'm fine with that as far I understand it. It's probably worth more to Intrepid to reward loyal players than it is to sell an additional store cosmetic anyway. With the understanding that it is free and available to the most casual of casuals with at least intermittent but consistent gameplay. I'd do something as simple as a weekly XP ba.

I dunno what that XP is leading towards, but…
Weekly XP makes it seem as though you can lose progress if you don’t play weekly.

Modern BPs are better than that.
It’s possibly to skip weeks and still complete a modern BP.

Texas

Dygz wrote: »

Texas wrote: »

I'm fine with that as far I understand it. It's probably worth more to Intrepid to reward loyal players than it is to sell an additional store cosmetic anyway. With the understanding that it is free and available to the most casual of casuals with at least intermittent but consistent gameplay. I'd do something as simple as a weekly XP ba.

I dunno what that XP is leading towards, but…
Weekly XP makes it seem as though you can lose progress if you don’t play weekly.

Modern BPs are better than that.
It’s possibly to skip weeks and still complete a modern BP.

Nah. I meant it's weekly-capped so that it's tied more to consistent play over a time period and players don't feel the need to constantly grind it.

My XP bar would intermittently rewards the currency up to.a cap. Most everything grants XP in AoC, so it supports all playstyles and it's an easy thing for players to understand. My exp bar would cap at like the equivalent of 3 hours of grind, which might be 5-6 hours in game.depending on travel time, trading and the like. The idea being everyone who plays the game that week, if its just logging in for an event or two, gets near the max reward.

Dygz

Legi wrote: »

You do realize that you can instantly cancel after subbing for the month? You can then still play for the rest of the month and dont have to worry about forgetting to cancel. Thats how I handle all my subs. I pay for a month and instantly cancel so I wont pay too much if I stop using whatever I have subbed for.

If I were going to do that, I’d play a single-player RPG that I could beat in one month.

That’s a hoop I should not have to jump through. It’s designed the way it is because the devs know that lots of people will sub, planning to play multiple months (and they might even actually play multiple months) and then later realize that they haven’t played for several months.

And, yeah, I typically only play the free BP paths.
And, with my Fortnite Crew membership, I’m always going to get the value of the membership fee even if I don’t play the BP for months - because I get a new free Character skin each month - which is the primary reason I got a membership. And then I get the bonus of the BP.
So, BP works better than a sub and better than the Cosmetics Store, imho.

I dunno who starts to play an MMORPG expecting to only play for one month..

Legi wrote: »

Because even when you only have the free one, everytime you get something from the free one it shows you all the things you could have gotten if you have paid. I can resist that temptation and it sounds like you can too, but they design it exactly like that because many cant.

What???
That is another answer like, “Nobody can land a rocket on the Moon because it’s made out of green cheese and rocket would sink all the way through and fall out of the other side.”

So, when you buy stuff from the grocery store, it’s predatory that you can’t afford to buy everything in the store?

You can always see everything on both paths from the start of the Season, so you immediately know whether or not you want to spend $10 on the paid track.
Why is $10 BP more predatory than a Cosmetic Store where most of the items cost more than $10 and you can always see the items you can’t afford?

Legi wrote: »

I dont know which "modern battlepasses" you mean but the ones I know are only there for a limited time and the content of those "modern battlepasses" are unique to those battlepasses. So if you want to get the emotes/skins/whatever from those battlepasses you need to not only to pay but also have to put in the work in this specific timeframe where this BP is active.
This is pretty much the definition of fomo.

It’s not the definition of fomo if you have plenty of time to reach the end of the BP. And that’s the case for modern BPs.
9 hours per week is Casual Time for an MMORPG. And, if you think you won’t play for 9 hours per week, you can choose not to purchase the paid BP.

The Battlepasses I’ve been referencing are:
APOC
Fortnite
NW
Wow

Legi wrote: »

If we get a BP system like the one Mag7Spy mentioned wayfinder is using im totally cool with it, but the big companies usually dont do them like this.

1: So add Wayfinder to my list.
2: We already have an Intrepid example of a modern, non-predatory BP via APOC.

Legi wrote: »

You keep saying "modern battlepasses" are fair, they dont create fomo and defend them in other ways. It’s fine when you like them, I dont and I have explained lengthy why I dont like them and the arguments you are trying to make are not changing my mind there.

I mean…whether you like them is really totally different discussion and really has nothing to do with anything I’ve said.
I don’t think I’ve asked you why you don’t like them.

Legi wrote: »

After reading back in this topic I start to see NiKrs point I suppose.. so lets safe us some time and agree to disagree? We will see what we get. If we get a BP I hope its one like wayfinder does it. If its different and more fomo creating/predatory I wont like it but will still play Ashes as long as its a good game.

I mean…this is like asking me to agree that the moon is made of green cheese. And you stating that you disagree with sending people to the moon because the moon is made of green cheese.

Could be that you will never like the idea of spending money to send people to the Moon.
We can agree to disagree on that part.
But, I’m not going to agree that the Moon is made of green cheese.

Child Item