Pawkets wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Pawkets wrote: » /facepalm 90% of yall are definitely misunderstanding this post and are arguing either for my point I attempted to make or misconstrue'ing my point so much I don't even know how to respond. Well I mean if 90 percent of us are not understanding your point then you'll want to clarify it. Try to boil it all down into just a couple sentences first. Don't talk about what you don't mean, clarify what you do mean. I've reread my initial post and everything in it is exactly the information that is needed to be included and has a purpose. As I've heard this in different conversations. If you read this coming from a pro PVX standpoint everything makes sense. Reading the responses, it seems people think I am either a PVE or a PVP person. My goal in this is to protect the PVX from the PVE mindset. And I have evidence for what I am saying and even include a solution that will not inhibit or hurt the PVX goal.
Diamaht wrote: » Pawkets wrote: » /facepalm 90% of yall are definitely misunderstanding this post and are arguing either for my point I attempted to make or misconstrue'ing my point so much I don't even know how to respond. Well I mean if 90 percent of us are not understanding your point then you'll want to clarify it. Try to boil it all down into just a couple sentences first. Don't talk about what you don't mean, clarify what you do mean.
Pawkets wrote: » /facepalm 90% of yall are definitely misunderstanding this post and are arguing either for my point I attempted to make or misconstrue'ing my point so much I don't even know how to respond.
Pawkets wrote: » Lately, I have heard an overwhelming opinion that Ashes will be catering to the PvP crowd or this is a PvP game, despite the constant reminder that this is a PvX game. While we won't truly know if this opinion is accurate or not until we feel it in Alpha 2 there is something I want to state for those who have this view on the game. 1. I have heard the argument that PvP players can sit at the arenas all day without threat or need to participate in PvE content. For anyone striving for competition in PvP they will need to chase their BIS set of gear. In WoW arenas (talking about early TBC arenas as I am not a retail Andy) the best armor for PvP was from arenas, however, the best weapons for arena were the same BIS weapons from high end PvE raids. So while the arena trolls just wanted to PvP most of the high competitive arena boys went out into those raids and earned their DKP in order to get those weapons. 2. I've also heard there is no threat of PvE for people in the open world/open seas. For this, I would again hope for something like what we can see in Sea of Thieves (see my "Everyone's thinking it, I'm just saying it Pirates!" post for more details /smile) However, I think even our PvP Pirates out in the open seas who are only looking to raid, pillage, and plunder without any corruption might run into a kraken like can happen in Sea of Thieves, when this tentacle ______ stops your ship in the middle of no where you got to fight it. I would hope that in Ashes just as there is a risk of PvP at most turns there is a risk of PvE for everyone as well. Thus why they call their game a PvX game. 3. Which leads me to my 3rd point which is: I think is a good solution and balance for this debate. While PvP people seemingly have a protected space to "only PvP all day with no threat of PvE" and the big thing that PvE people want is a place so they can gauge their progression and weekly performance and see they are improving their game play the same as what a PvPer can do in arenas. I suggest there is about a 50% instanced raid content. A place where on a weekly lock out, something that is needing to be group completed content. All 3 of these points leave out the entire thing that brings them all together and makes these arguments sort of mute in the first place. Even if Ashes has this content that is seemingly geared more towards PvP or PvE -- All players striving to obtain their best in slot gear won't do any of this content for it. They will have to farm the crafters-- They will need to go into the open world and fight both NPC and player to obtain their materials, they will have to move their materials via caravan (watching the caravan showcase the amount of PvE involved in a caravan run between 2 close nodes included: Parts Purchasing Tumok Avoidance Wolf Clearing Spider Clearing Rabid Avoidance (No rabids were harmed in the making of this livestream that I noticed) Bear Killing Chopped Trees Terrain Maneuvering PvE Elite Spawn event And Route Planning -- plus probably more that I missed After they've obtained both materials and gold or moved materials where they are needed they will need to get into the good graces of the crafters who if they have previously murdered while said crafter was trying to gather their PvE goods, they will probably get told to pound sand. -- In short, I want this game to stop being referred to as a PvP oriented game, it is not. We will all need to farm the crafters, and this requires a large handful of PvX.
Depraved wrote: » 1- we don't have any info on arenas, only that they exist. we don't know if they will be open 24/7 or not and if they will give you bis gear or not. 2- what do u mean by no pve threat? monsters and bosses can kill you. 3- its not a good solution. we don't even know if there Is even a problem to begin with, as you are describing it. people shouldn't be able to simply log in, do pve dungeons and log off, come back next week and still get their bis gear. it eliminates all the risks. additionally, ashes needs people to be out in the world doing stuff. you would probably need to separate gear into pvp and pve...and so far, you would use the same gear for both. the only way that could kind of work is if you still needed to do pvp so that you are able to do the pve instance. maybe you can get some pieces of gear from crafting, then some more from doing arena, then the last few from doing a raid dungeon, so players will still need to engage in different type of content instead of just doing one thing then logging off until the reset. also, this isn't a game for pure pve players, its a game for people who like pvp. pvpers craft too.
Pawkets wrote: » Depraved wrote: » 1- we don't have any info on arenas, only that they exist. we don't know if they will be open 24/7 or not and if they will give you bis gear or not. 2- what do u mean by no pve threat? monsters and bosses can kill you. 3- its not a good solution. we don't even know if there Is even a problem to begin with, as you are describing it. people shouldn't be able to simply log in, do pve dungeons and log off, come back next week and still get their bis gear. it eliminates all the risks. additionally, ashes needs people to be out in the world doing stuff. you would probably need to separate gear into pvp and pve...and so far, you would use the same gear for both. the only way that could kind of work is if you still needed to do pvp so that you are able to do the pve instance. maybe you can get some pieces of gear from crafting, then some more from doing arena, then the last few from doing a raid dungeon, so players will still need to engage in different type of content instead of just doing one thing then logging off until the reset. also, this isn't a game for pure pve players, its a game for people who like pvp. pvpers craft too. 1. They will not give you BIS gear as that will come from crafters. 2. This is not my point but this is what I've heard stated and I am an advocate for things such as a kraken to come mess up your open seas pvp day. And force pvp'ers to endure difficult pve content. 3. Raid instancing is different than dungeon instancing -- the purpose of this is to gauge your pve skills in a set environment. Just like arenas can gauge your pvp skills in a set environment. BIS gear will come from crafters also if you're the type to want the competitive pve you will no just log in to do that, you will need to farm the consumes and farm the bis gear which is coming from the crafters. The entire point is by "Farming the Crafters" means you won't be able to live in either instance because you need to work out in the open world, however, I hear the people who want an unobstructed gauge for difficult raid content. 50% raids would be open world, 50% raids could be these gauge raids. But they will have to get their bis gear from crafting either way.
Depraved wrote: » raid and dungeon instances ar the same, you just have different configurations. one allows more people than the other or might have limited entries, etc. the gear might come from crafting, but the mats might come from these instances, that's why I said you could get your bis from instances. getting the mats is the difficult part, not pressing E on a crafting station in town. the gear basically comes from the dungeons since you need to do them to get the mats (unless you buy them from someone else). if doing the dungeon doesn't give you anything towards your bis gear, whats the point of doing the dungeon? you could do it for fun or for the challenge, but after one run, the challenge is gone. repeating the same dungeon for no reason gets boring too. no rewards and no challenge. if you want to gauge your pve skills (lol) you can still do so in the open world. even if you need to pvp for a boss or a farming spot, at some point you will need to actually fight the boss or the mobs. at that point, your pve skills (whatever you mean by that) come into play. pve is still a threat.
Pawkets wrote: » Depraved wrote: » raid and dungeon instances ar the same, you just have different configurations. one allows more people than the other or might have limited entries, etc. the gear might come from crafting, but the mats might come from these instances, that's why I said you could get your bis from instances. getting the mats is the difficult part, not pressing E on a crafting station in town. the gear basically comes from the dungeons since you need to do them to get the mats (unless you buy them from someone else). if doing the dungeon doesn't give you anything towards your bis gear, whats the point of doing the dungeon? you could do it for fun or for the challenge, but after one run, the challenge is gone. repeating the same dungeon for no reason gets boring too. no rewards and no challenge. if you want to gauge your pve skills (lol) you can still do so in the open world. even if you need to pvp for a boss or a farming spot, at some point you will need to actually fight the boss or the mobs. at that point, your pve skills (whatever you mean by that) come into play. pve is still a threat. In my original post if you read it I specifically say "50% instanced raid content. A place where on a weekly lock out, something that is needing to be group completed content." This avoids things such as a singular person going in and farming the raid repetitively for a gold farm outside of the open world. I am not one that would want to raid a PVE objective for gear that isn't BIS, however, as stated the complaint is PVP players have an area that is instanced area for unbothered PVP content and so this is a counterbalance to that. The entire purpose is acknowledging the people in the community who have expressed their view that the systems within Ashes are seemingly leaning towards PVP (I disagree with this opinion) I am not fully sure if you're correct or not in the part about the mats "might come from these dungeons" the dungeons are only quest line. Even so, this is not what I'm advocating for in the least, I am again advocating for PVX and for your best gear coming from open world and crafting.
Endowed wrote: » Do Arena players get a safe area to fight other arena players without outside interruption? Yes? Do siege players get a safe area to do sieges against other players without outside interruption by others? Yes?? Do PvErs/dungeon-divers get a safe area to do dungeon crawls without outside interruption? No? Do Raiders? No? Do farmers? Mostly no? With some very limited freehold plots, but are those open to being attacked if standing outside? Do explorers/achievers? No? >>That's a PvP centric design. Just call it what it is. I'm good with it as it stands. Though the ugly "lie" seems to be pushed for sales.
NiKr wrote: » Abarat wrote: » I think most PVP focused players cannot understand this. Yep, because in pretty much every damn mmo we've been made to pve, if we wanted to pvp, so it's always wild when pvers keep shitting their pants at the slightest possibility of pvp in the gameplay.
Abarat wrote: » I think most PVP focused players cannot understand this.
Depraved wrote: » Endowed wrote: » Do Arena players get a safe area to fight other arena players without outside interruption? Yes? Do siege players get a safe area to do sieges against other players without outside interruption by others? Yes?? Do PvErs/dungeon-divers get a safe area to do dungeon crawls without outside interruption? No? Do Raiders? No? Do farmers? Mostly no? With some very limited freehold plots, but are those open to being attacked if standing outside? Do explorers/achievers? No? >>That's a PvP centric design. Just call it what it is. I'm good with it as it stands. Though the ugly "lie" seems to be pushed for sales. you forgot something important, progression. we don't know what we get from arenas, but a siege doesn't give me gear progression, I'
Diamaht wrote: » Endowed wrote: » Do Arena players get a safe area to fight other arena players without outside interruption? Yes? Do siege players get a safe area to do sieges against other players without outside interruption by others? Yes?? Do PvErs/dungeon-divers get a safe area to do dungeon crawls without outside interruption? No? Do Raiders? No? Do farmers? Mostly no? With some very limited freehold plots, but are those open to being attacked if standing outside? Do explorers/achievers? No? >>That's a PvP centric design. Just call it what it is. I'm good with it as it stands. Though the ugly "lie" seems to be pushed for sales. What lie? They've been open with all of this. That's how you know all of this. They told you. As for seiges, it actually says castle seiges will be open world dependent on testing. Node v node is open world, ocean is open world, guild wars are open world. About 20 percent of game content (pve and pvp both) will not be open world. 80 percent will. It all looks good to me.
Depraved wrote: » Endowed wrote: » Do Arena players get a safe area to fight other arena players without outside interruption? Yes? Do siege players get a safe area to do sieges against other players without outside interruption by others? Yes?? Do PvErs/dungeon-divers get a safe area to do dungeon crawls without outside interruption? No? Do Raiders? No? Do farmers? Mostly no? With some very limited freehold plots, but are those open to being attacked if standing outside? Do explorers/achievers? No? >>That's a PvP centric design. Just call it what it is. I'm good with it as it stands. Though the ugly "lie" seems to be pushed for sales. you forgot something important, progression. we don't know what we get from arenas, but a siege doesn't give me gear progression, I'm not guaranteed to win or even participate. id need to do open world stuff to get the gear to participate in the siege. there is a difference. they also happen once a month? raid progression means you start at the easiest raid, then you clear it and get gear, then jump to something stronger, rinse and repeat. it eliminates having to be outside in the world getting gear. if a pvper wants gear, he has to be outside and compete against people to get the gear.
Pawkets wrote: » And this is what my post is not agreeing with. Even if you think those games are PVP games, Ashes isn't going to be a PVP game - My argument is: it is purely a PVX even if you feel it is a PVP game. People having their misconceptions about this game and staying stuck in that mindset will continue to think its a PVP game but that is due to them not being able to see the PVX (E) that even PVPers will have to do.
Pawkets wrote: » My argument is: it is purely a PVX even if you feel it is a PVP game.
