Target player health indicator?

Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP.

Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area.

This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them?

I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players.
Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP.

We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp.
You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos.

You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does.

No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators.

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Noaani

HazardNumberSeven wrote: »

The health bars won't be visible, iirc. They were just made visible 'for now' and will be disabled later, is what I got from the stream.

No, the plan is for them to be visible.

Exact health percentages won't be visible, but the health bars don't show exact percentages.

akabear

I've always wondered why first-person shooters (FPS) manage quite well without health bars hovering over their enemies, yet MMORPGs (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games) tend to feature them prominently.

In FPS games, the absence of health bars can be attributed to the fast-paced, immersive gameplay that relies on visual and audio cues to indicate an enemy's health status. Players often gauge an enemy's condition through animations, sounds, and visible damage, creating a more realistic and engaging experience.
The UI often / can be less visually cluttering too.

On the other hand, I get why possibly MMORPGs frequently include health bars.. These games often involve complex combat systems where players feel the need to manage multiple targets and coordinate with others and want other support tools. Health bars provide clear, immediate feedback on an enemy's status, enabling players to make strategic decisions quickly.

But this is where I believe that MMORPGs may lack the detailed visual and audio cues that FPS games use, necessitating health bars to compensate for this deficiency.

I've always believed that these health bars were created to make up for the lack of clear visual indications on the foes and even perhaps lazy design in today*s advancement.

I hope that one day, advancements in character design and technology will allow MMORPGs to dispense with health bars altogether, relying instead on more nuanced and immersive indicators to convey enemy status.

This would not only enhance the gaming experience but also bring a level of realism and immersion similar to what FPS games already achieve.

For immerssion, I have always wanted far less bells and whistles (UI) and way more screen visuals and sounds , attention to players, creatures and environment!

Backed this horse with that hope, but alas perhaps that horse is still to come!

Noaani

akabear wrote: »

I've always wondered why first-person shooters (FPS) manage quite well without health bars hovering over their enemies, yet MMORPGs (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games) tend to feature them prominently.

My opinion here is that the difference between the genres, the reason it is near ubiquitous in one and essentially not present in the other, is because in FPS games you are almost never in a situation where you would make a different decision based on knowing a rivals health, while in an MMORPG this will happen often.

While I am not the biggest fan of FPS games, I have never played one where I would think of changing weapons if I knew my target was at half health as opposed to assuming they were at full health.

I can't think of any class I have played in an MMO where that same decision wouldn't change knowing this information.

This is very much just an opinion though. I am fully aware that my FPS experience isn't robust enough to put any weight behind this opinion.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

My opinion here is that the difference between the genres, the reason it is near ubiquitous in one and essentially not present in the other, is because in FPS games you are almost never in a situation where you would make a different decision based on knowing a rivals health, while in an MMORPG this will happen often.

As a low skill player, I'd spray the lower-hp enemy in CS, if there were 3 dudes in front of me. That's a direct impact on my decision making. Same would (and did) apply to Halo Infinite, when I played it, with its shields and me knowing that my friend had just brought down an enemy's shield, so I had a higher chance of finishing off that target.

But neither of those situations required visible hp, because if a group of people is working well together, they can just relay the info of "I just damaged X target, so if you are able to hit it - you might be able to finish it off". This is the same way it worked in L2. Parties playing together as one unit, rather than a bunch of solo players simply reacting to lines of hp values and sniping anyone who got a little bit lower than others.

It's a difference of gameplay, same as a pack of lions behave differently to a pack of vultures.

Texas

Yeah. Theres stuff like switching from sniper to pistol and aiming for the body vs the head in FPS games. But you are going to get that info from teammates, you definitely would not wait to see your enemy then try to switch tactics.

There's also no/minimal healing and low TTKs.

Dygz

akabear wrote: »

I've always wondered why first-person shooters (FPS) manage quite well without health bars hovering over their enemies, yet MMORPGs (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games) tend to feature them prominently.

In FPS games, the absence of health bars can be attributed to the fast-paced, immersive gameplay that relies on visual and audio cues to indicate an enemy's health status.

Because the whole point of shooters is to shoot and kill stuff as fast as possible.
RPGs should have a variety of other options besides just killing everything in sight.

EQNext's Storybricks and Ghostcrawler's Ghost highlight the variety of options that should be available in any RPG - given adequate underlying tech:
"Could tanks actually push a boss into a more docile, or more aggressive, state of interaction with the party overall? What if enemies had hidden traits that, depending on what players do, change their behavior? Can bosses be afraid of fire? Would they get more aggressive if they hate your armor?"
https://fantasticpixelcastle.com/new-detail/?id=451

CROW3

@akabear - fine with me. Reduce TTK to 1-3 shots, and you can remove health bars. 😈

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