Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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Endowed

Caeryl wrote: »

They shouldn’t even be considered.

this

leamese

No Battlepass.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Battlepasses are a thing of cheap FOMO marketing meant to spook players into boosting activity metrics and cash income because it’ll expire and be gone

Also possible to make a good game with rewarding Battlepasses.
Modern Battlepasses have much less FOMO than the Ashes Monthly Cosmetics did.

It isn't possible to make one that doesn't automatically give the negative association that has been so prominantly on display in this thread.

To many people - especially the more mature gaming audiance - the very existance of a battlepass renders them uninterested in the game as a whole. This in itself is reason enough to not add one.

Attempting to circumvent that distaste by calling it something else will generate real animosity towards Intrepid, in much the same way Archeages monetization generated animosity towards Trion despite them previously being a fairly well respected developer/producer.

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

Cosmetics - like the ones in the Cosmetic Store - will not be in the game.
If you don't emjoy earning Cosmetics by doing stuff you like to do in the game - just ignore the Battlepass.
Modern Battlepasses 100% respect the players' time. Can't be a "filthy cash-in system" when the paid BP costs less than most of the items in the Cosmetic Store.
Modern BPs are as honest and fun for Casual Challenge players as Raids are for Hardcore Challenge players.

Time can be respected even more if they provide those cosmetics immediately and let the player do whatever wants to do in the game, which is not necessarily related to getting cosmetics. Like logging in and chatting with players, role playing, fishing, destroying random caravans...
The game is supposed to be more a sandbox where you do what you want rather than a theme-park where you do something specific because you payed to get cosmetics.

Dygz wrote: »

Can't be a "filthy cash-in system" when the paid BP costs less than most of the items in the Cosmetic Store.

This would be true if the cosmetic store and the BP would be provided by different companies.
But they are not. Otherwise you would buy and play these Battlepasses and you would not even think that the same people added the "deal-breaker" deep ocean with full PvP.

You can't enjoy the game thinking that somewhere there are players killing each-other.
The same way BP impact the game-play of those who want a game without them.

Dygz

Otr wrote: »

Time can be respected even more if they provide those cosmetics immediately and let the player do whatever wants to do in the game, which is not necessarily related to getting cosmetics. Like logging in and chatting with players, role playing, fishing, destroying random caravans...
The game is supposed to be more a sandbox where you do what you want rather than a theme-park where you do something specific because you payed to get cosmetics.

Ashes is a Themebox; not a Sandbox.
I don't know why doing stuff to get Gear or doing stuff to get Achievements is more respectful of time than doing stuff to get Cosmetics.
Modern Battlepasses typically have a Free Path.
Based on APOC, I expect the Ashes MMORPG to also have a Free Battlepass. Might also have a Paid BP Path.
Logging in, Fishing and destroying Caravans would very likely also be BP Tasks.
Chatting with players would probably not be a BP Task - just as it would not provide Adventurer or Artisan XP and just as it would not be a Quest or an Achievement Task.
BP Tasks do not negate roleplaying in any way.

Otr wrote: »

This would be true if the cosmetic store and the BP would be provided by different companies.
But they are not. Otherwise you would buy and play these Battlepasses and you would not even think that the same people added the "deal-breaker" deep ocean with full PvP.

I have no idea what any of that is supposed to mean.
Battlepasses can be free.
The company -Intrepid- has previously implemented a Battlepass for APOC - which is why I expect them to do the same for their MMORPG.
And that same company also added the Open Seas with FFA PvP.

Otr wrote: »

You can't enjoy the game thinking that somewhere there are players killing each-other.
The same way BP impact the game-play of those who want a game without them.

LMAO
I play WoW and NW just fine knowing that somewhere there are other players killing each other.
I just won't play a game that has large areas with FFA non-consensual PvP because I don't want other players to be able to disrupt my game session goals when I'm not in the mood for PvP.
The Open Seas would not be a deal-breaker for me if I could remain flagged as a Non-Combatant every where in the game.
I dunno how a BP affects the gameplay of gamers who wish to ignore the BP. They can just ignore the BP.

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

Based on APOC, I expect the Ashes MMORPG to also have a Free Battlepass. Might also have a Paid BP Path.

I'll have to think how to answer.

You said a lot in this thread: "I expect"
What do you mean by that?
You want?
You predict in a detached way?
You don't seem detached while debating this topic but more like willing to move the balance toward battle passes as if you would want to make the game better for you, even though you say you will not play it.

Hinotori

Dygz wrote: »

I dunno how a BP affects the gameplay of gamers who wish to ignore the BP. They can just ignore the BP.

You can just uno reverse this and say you can ignore the ocean.

Clonage

Haven't really read what others have said so sorry if it's repetitive.
I'm not really opposed to a free BP but meh... I wouldn't like to see a paid one that's for sure, specially since the game is Sub-based.
But let's be real, free BPs only exist to promote paid BPs otherwise there's no point in having a free BP, might as well add the rewards in the game for achievements or doing content.
I'd rather intrepid spend the time and resources on banger costumes/skins for the ember store than shoehorning a few mediocre skins here and there in a free/paid BP.

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

"Ashes is a Themebox; not a Sandbox."

Themebox is a mix between Sandbox and Themepark.
I prefer the Sandbox aspect of the game.
You said you don't like Sandbox so that is where the disagreement between us starts.

Dygz wrote: »

I don't know why doing stuff to get Gear or doing stuff to get Achievements is more respectful of time than doing stuff to get Cosmetics.

I like games which "disrespect" your time.
I like that we can have flying mounts but not all of us will get them.
I don't like other players to just come and do in 1-2 weeks some activities and show me that they got things fast and then vanish from the game for 2 months until a next battle pass comes even if those are just cosmetics.
I prefer players to be in the game all the time and create social structures, so that they need each other. And those social structures to be the ones which matter and rewards (including cosmetics) to be given for such dedication rather than to casuals who just visit the game.

Dygz wrote: »

Modern Battlepasses typically have a Free Path.

I don't care that they are free.
It bothers me if they tell me to do something.
I don't want to do what I am being told to do.
I want to be my decision to do that when I want to do that. That is the sandbox aspect of the game in a theme box. I want whatever is in that box (grains of sand or pieces of themes) those to be linked to the rise and fall of nodes rather than battlepasses which reward players who do not want to play the real game. (like you)

Dygz wrote: »

Based on APOC, I expect the Ashes MMORPG to also have a Free Battlepass. Might also have a Paid BP Path.

The company -Intrepid- has previously implemented a Battlepass for APOC - which is why I expect them to do the same for their MMORPG.

You said a lot in this thread: "I expect"
What do you mean by that?
You want?
You predict in a detached way?
You don't seem detached while debating this topic but more like willing to move the balance toward battle passes as if you would want to make the game better for you, even though you say you will not play it.

Whatever arguments we bring, you keep saying that BPs can be made in a way that will not cause whatever problems we see.
But "can" does not mean they "will" be done like that.
For you seems important to get them.

So tell me what you have to gain here if you will not play the game anyway.

Dygz wrote: »

And that same company also added the Open Seas with FFA PvP.

And the same company said the last chance to buy Alpha 2 keys is January and now they open access again.
You like to highlight their dishonesty when we debate about battle-passes.
I wonder if you really want to see this game succeed or you secretly want it to fail because they added that Open Seas with FFA PvP after Steven told you in the interview that the game will be safe to explore everywhere.

Dygz wrote: »

Logging in, Fishing and destroying Caravans would very likely also be BP Tasks.
Chatting with players would probably not be a BP Task - just as it would not provide Adventurer or Artisan XP and just as it would not be a Quest or an Achievement Task.
BP Tasks do not negate roleplaying in any way.

This part might be explained above.
The key word is "BP Tasks"
And can be linked with "respect time"
I don't want to see tasks and time bonus to get something if you do it when the developer decides.

Dygz wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Can't be a "filthy cash-in system" when the paid BP costs less than most of the items in the Cosmetic Store.

This would be true if the cosmetic store and the BP would be provided by different companies.
But they are not. Otherwise you would buy and play these Battlepasses and you would not even think that the same people added the "deal-breaker" deep ocean with full PvP.

I have no idea what any of that is supposed to mean.

You cannot defend BPs in any way compared to anything else which is provided by the same company.
It works only when two companies compete on a free market and one would offer something to take customers away from the other one.
In this case we are customers of the same company.

Dygz wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

You can't enjoy the game thinking that somewhere there are players killing each-other.
The same way BP impact the game-play of those who want a game without them.

LMAO
I play WoW and NW just fine knowing that somewhere there are other players killing each other.
I just won't play a game that has large areas with FFA non-consensual PvP because I don't want other players to be able to disrupt my game session goals when I'm not in the mood for PvP.

I agree that is a "hard" disrupt.

Dygz wrote: »

The Open Seas would not be a deal-breaker for me if I could remain flagged as a Non-Combatant every where in the game.
I dunno how a BP affects the gameplay of gamers who wish to ignore the BP. They can just ignore the BP.

The presence of a BP is a "soft" disrupt.
If I am in a guild or citizen of a node and I depend to other players, I am influenced when others drop their normal game-play and rush to do BP tasks.
By telling me that those BP tasks overlap with what I was doing normally does not help. It just hurts as it feels like the developer telling me to do them.
Those tasks should not be linked to a BP.

BP would be ok for me if only seasonal players would have to do those BP tasks and I would get those cosmetic rewards instantly without any effort to do tasks. They should just appear in the inventory of all players who play regularly the game.

Dolyem

In a subscription based game, I would be cool with them as long as they are either included within the paid subscription, or if you can pay in game gold to access them. It can act of a solid system for a gold sink.

As far as monetization goes, I don't particularly want them. But, if they remain entirely cosmetic. No attainable currency, materials, quality of life features, P2W, XP gains, etc. As long as they steer clear of those things, I wouldn't mind the idea of dropping $5 to $10 for a pass once or twice a year.

nevoras

Im against Battlepasses, its just a list of chores you need to do to get Stuff and then often exclusive or more stuff when paying the "Super Pass" or whatever.

I dont want to have to do stuff i might not want to do with my time just to fulfill requirements i need to progress a battlepass for more items. I rather wanna play the Game the way i want to play it and get that Battlepass stuff the regular way by finishing Quests, finding Treasure, Trading, Crafting, Exploring etc whatever there is. Actual Gameplay instead a List like Collect 50 Ores for 50 BP Points or Login Daylie to get stuff. I wanna have the Progression in the Hand of Players actually playing the Game and not players beeing forced to do stuff. It often just takes away time from the thing you actually wanted to do.

Same with stupid Daylies in every game you litterally spend 10-30min sometimes even longer to do Daily Stuff to get all the Goodies than actually playing what you wanted to play its a loss kinda every day but not that noticeable cause you get a Reward for your lost time, Still you did not what you maybe wanted or could have done in that time instead.

I know these Systems are there to keep players occupied but im quite sure with enough opportunities of any kind in a Big Gameworld these will not be missed.

Dygz

Otr wrote: »

You said a lot in this thread: "I expect"
What do you mean by that?
You want?
You predict in a detached way?

I predict. I guess maybe in a detached way.
It's not something I "want" since I won't be playing Ashes in any way for a BP to affect what I'm doing.

Otr wrote: »

You don't seem detached while debating this topic but more like willing to move the balance toward battle passes as if you would want to make the game better for you, even though you say you will not play it.

It's not possible for me to move anything towards Steven implementing a Battlepass.
I'm mostly just sharing the way Modern Battlepasses actually work.
A Battlepass cannot make Ashes a better game for me.

palabana

Battle Pass is usually a chore for me. What could be a fun gaming session ends up feeling like a job because I have to fill in those hours and mindlessly submitting my tasks to get paid (rewards). Instead of doing battle passes, the developers should spend more on improving their skills to write and design better quests.

They want the game to be immersive and expressive. So let's see it. Let us get immersed in the lore by doing smaller quests and be rewarded for our time and dedication.

Dygz

Why do you HAVE to fill hours "mindlessly submitting tasks"?
And how is it different than mindlessly completing Quests or completing Achievements or Crafting or completing Dungeons or Raids - especially since all of those would also be BP Tasks.

Designing and implementing and testing new Quests takes at least 5x longer than creating a set of BP Tasks.
Completing BP Tasks for Cosmetics is just another option alongside completing Dungeons and Raids for BiS Gear. Or completing Achievements for Titles.
Having more options to entice players to repeat existing content does not negate anything.

No one is forcing anybody to focus on BP Tasks. Just as no one forces players to complete Dungeons or Raids. People who don't like BPs can ignore them. Just as people who don't like Dungeons and Raids can ignore those.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Designing and implementing and testing new Quests takes at least 5x longer than creating a set of BP Tasks.

Yes, and what we are all saying is that we would rather have those quests, knowing that there will be fewer of them.

Again, as this thread is evidence of, Battlepass will turn people away from Ashes just by existing.

Otr

Dygz wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

You said a lot in this thread: "I expect"
What do you mean by that?
You want?
You predict in a detached way?

I predict. I guess maybe in a detached way.
It's not something I "want" since I won't be playing Ashes in any way for a BP to affect what I'm doing.

Otr wrote: »

You don't seem detached while debating this topic but more like willing to move the balance toward battle passes as if you would want to make the game better for you, even though you say you will not play it.

It's not possible for me to move anything towards Steven implementing a Battlepass.
I'm mostly just sharing the way Modern Battlepasses actually work.
A Battlepass cannot make Ashes a better game for me.

But can make the game worse for those who actually want to play the game.

Dygz

Modern Battlepasses wouldn't truly do that.
If you can't ignore the implementation of a Modern Battlepass - that's most likely just a you problem.

Aszkalon

Noaani wrote: »

Again, as this thread is evidence of, Battlepass will turn people away from Ashes just by existing.

Are the Pre-Alpha 2 Cosmetics not also a kind of Battle-Pass in a way ... ... ? 🤔 🤨

Dygz

Nope. They were just a mini Cosmetics Shop.

Noaani

Aszkalon wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Again, as this thread is evidence of, Battlepass will turn people away from Ashes just by existing.

Are the Pre-Alpha 2 Cosmetics not also a kind of Battle-Pass in a way ... ... ? 🤔 🤨

Not even a little bit.

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