Diamaht wrote: » Chicago wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » If it's just strait dps vs healing then it should take at least 2 or 3. They need to be capable of doing their job vs sustained damage from multiple people or what is even the point? 1v1 should be possible when you are able to shut them down instead of out damaging them. Meaning cc, mana drain etc. Someone heavily spec'd into cc should be able to heavily hinder a healer and slowly wear him down. Someone lightly spec d into cc should struggle to take a good healer 1v1. I agree, I think you should be able to kill a healer with cc if you play your class right, and 2-3 seems fine if their just zugging, the problem for me becomes when the healer can survive 2+ but also dps them down, making them sort of op like in the a1 Yeah, Shadow Priests in WoW used to be that way. It gets pretty ridiculous. If you heavily spec damage, you give up a lot of your healing and vice versa. It should come down to build, so people have agency.
Chicago wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » If it's just strait dps vs healing then it should take at least 2 or 3. They need to be capable of doing their job vs sustained damage from multiple people or what is even the point? 1v1 should be possible when you are able to shut them down instead of out damaging them. Meaning cc, mana drain etc. Someone heavily spec'd into cc should be able to heavily hinder a healer and slowly wear him down. Someone lightly spec d into cc should struggle to take a good healer 1v1. I agree, I think you should be able to kill a healer with cc if you play your class right, and 2-3 seems fine if their just zugging, the problem for me becomes when the healer can survive 2+ but also dps them down, making them sort of op like in the a1
Diamaht wrote: » If it's just strait dps vs healing then it should take at least 2 or 3. They need to be capable of doing their job vs sustained damage from multiple people or what is even the point? 1v1 should be possible when you are able to shut them down instead of out damaging them. Meaning cc, mana drain etc. Someone heavily spec'd into cc should be able to heavily hinder a healer and slowly wear him down. Someone lightly spec d into cc should struggle to take a good healer 1v1.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » 1
Chicago wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » 1 I agree as long as the player needs to use their skill kit to do so, I don't believe you should be able to zug down a healer
Diamaht wrote: » Chicago wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » 1 I agree as long as the player needs to use their skill kit to do so, I don't believe you should be able to zug down a healer Yeah, you should have to do something other than damage 1v1. If you think about it, if a dps can just kill a priest 1v 1 with nothing but his rotation, how can a priest function in a group setting against 3 to 4 dps focusing a group mate down? In that scenario, why bring a priest for group pvp when another dps would be more useful? If priests don't have more survivability than a single dps then they are useful only for pve.
Chicago wrote: » 100% agree, and if not Killable by 1 dps, the healer should be extremely hindered in the fact that all their healing output is keeping themself alive and not their team, this will also make the healers choices on positioning have value, and fit the risk vs reward play style, if your team makes the healer out of position it should be felt by everyone.
Noaani wrote: » To me, healers should be able to be killed in 1v1 situations given the right class (a mana drain opponent, for example). The trick to getting healers to work in group based PvP is to give others the ability to keep opponents from attacking them in the first place. Tanks and CC keep healers out of the action, and in return healers keep tanks and CC topped up with health. This puts the survivability of the entire group or raid as being a result of the effort and skill of the entire gropu or raid.
Dygz wrote: » Three
Diamaht wrote: » Keep in mind that you still want healers to be appealing. You can nerf healers into extinction
Diamaht wrote: » Keep in mind that you still want healers to be appealing. You can nerf healers into extinction: 1. If they are too underpowered 2. It's too easy for dps to just have their way with them 3. If you make them entirely dependent upon teammate to avoid getting alpha'd out of every fight I'd rather not play yet another MMO where Healers and Tanks are hard to come by because it's not enjoyable to play them. Part of making a game group centered is making sure the DPS are not the overwhelming dominant force in the game.
Chicago wrote: » Whats everyone's thoughts on this?, from previous experience I think many games miss the sweet spot with healers in PvP and make them either too easy to kill or damn close to impossible. Watching A1 footage back, there are quite a few videos of clerics doing things like 7v1, this should never be allowed to happen in a MMO, Personally I think healers should be able to withstand at least two other players attacking them, but I also believe that there should be out play potentials for people to burst down a healer with silences or cc. It's definitely a tricky thing to balance, I'm interested to hear people's opinions
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » Chicago wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » 1 I agree as long as the player needs to use their skill kit to do so, I don't believe you should be able to zug down a healer sure, one should be enough, three times the amount of time it would take for killing one non-healer
Noaani wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Keep in mind that you still want healers to be appealing. You can nerf healers into extinction: 1. If they are too underpowered 2. It's too easy for dps to just have their way with them 3. If you make them entirely dependent upon teammate to avoid getting alpha'd out of every fight I'd rather not play yet another MMO where Healers and Tanks are hard to come by because it's not enjoyable to play them. Part of making a game group centered is making sure the DPS are not the overwhelming dominant force in the game. This is where the secondary class system comes in to play. If y ou are at risk of being jumped while out by yourself, take tank as your secondary. If you are heading out for large scale PvP with people you know will keep threats off you, take cleric as your secondary. With the plan of it being hard to change secondary class, this obviously doesn't work - but I am of the opinion that it will be made easier to chage secondary than has been stated in the past, precisely for reasons like this (the class system as designed is wasted if players can't reasonably change secondary once a day).
Diamaht wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Keep in mind that you still want healers to be appealing. You can nerf healers into extinction: 1. If they are too underpowered 2. It's too easy for dps to just have their way with them 3. If you make them entirely dependent upon teammate to avoid getting alpha'd out of every fight I'd rather not play yet another MMO where Healers and Tanks are hard to come by because it's not enjoyable to play them. Part of making a game group centered is making sure the DPS are not the overwhelming dominant force in the game. This is where the secondary class system comes in to play. If y ou are at risk of being jumped while out by yourself, take tank as your secondary. If you are heading out for large scale PvP with people you know will keep threats off you, take cleric as your secondary. With the plan of it being hard to change secondary class, this obviously doesn't work - but I am of the opinion that it will be made easier to chage secondary than has been stated in the past, precisely for reasons like this (the class system as designed is wasted if players can't reasonably change secondary once a day). Hopefully. It still drives players away to a degree. If Tanks and Healers (I'm mentioning both, because this entire conversation is identical if it's about Tanks) need to constantly switch to be effective then that further reduces population. Older EQ2 was a good example of this, you often had to search far and wide for a healer or a Guardian. Healing and Tanking are work, DPS is just making big numbers and farming dopamine at the end of the day. This is coming from a Ranger main. People will say "do I want work and responsibility or do I want to take a hormone shower?". If DPS can easily take out healers and tanks, a far larger percentage will just say to hell with it and take a nice shower.
Chicago wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » Keep in mind that you still want healers to be appealing. You can nerf healers into extinction: 1. If they are too underpowered 2. It's too easy for dps to just have their way with them 3. If you make them entirely dependent upon teammate to avoid getting alpha'd out of every fight I'd rather not play yet another MMO where Healers and Tanks are hard to come by because it's not enjoyable to play them. Part of making a game group centered is making sure the DPS are not the overwhelming dominant force in the game. This is where the secondary class system comes in to play. If y ou are at risk of being jumped while out by yourself, take tank as your secondary. If you are heading out for large scale PvP with people you know will keep threats off you, take cleric as your secondary. With the plan of it being hard to change secondary class, this obviously doesn't work - but I am of the opinion that it will be made easier to chage secondary than has been stated in the past, precisely for reasons like this (the class system as designed is wasted if players can't reasonably change secondary once a day). Hopefully. It still drives players away to a degree. If Tanks and Healers (I'm mentioning both, because this entire conversation is identical if it's about Tanks) need to constantly switch to be effective then that further reduces population. Older EQ2 was a good example of this, you often had to search far and wide for a healer or a Guardian. Healing and Tanking are work, DPS is just making big numbers and farming dopamine at the end of the day. This is coming from a Ranger main. People will say "do I want work and responsibility or do I want to take a hormone shower?". If DPS can easily take out healers and tanks, a far larger percentage will just say to hell with it and take a nice shower. Agree with alot but to be honest, once you master healing, it's not work at all, infact you can almost ignore most mechanics in dungeons because of your positioning, may change with ashes dungeons though
