Ripteye wrote: » what I am saying is if I am attacked I should be allowed to defend myself and at the same time because he initiated the attack no matter what he or anyone grouped or outside his group who attacks me for defending myself should gain corruption. Does that make sense or am I not understanding how it works?
hleV wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » what I am saying is if I am attacked I should be allowed to defend myself and at the same time because he initiated the attack no matter what he or anyone grouped or outside his group who attacks me for defending myself should gain corruption. Does that make sense or am I not understanding how it works? This is like the worst idea I've ever fucking heard.
Ripteye wrote: » hleV wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » what I am saying is if I am attacked I should be allowed to defend myself and at the same time because he initiated the attack no matter what he or anyone grouped or outside his group who attacks me for defending myself should gain corruption. Does that make sense or am I not understanding how it works? This is like the worst idea I've ever fucking heard. I am more trying to understand how it works, and what I have gathered is this. If I am a minding my own business and get attacked the best option is to let them kill me, so they gain corruption and also not allow his uncorrupted friend the ability to kill without consequence.
Dolyem wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » In Eve you can freely attack red in Hisec Space, but if Mr red has a friend who is green and in group and you attract Mr Red Mr Green because he is in group with red can attack you without consequences. That's gaming the system and is not in good taste of the intended mechanic. In my opinion. PvP shouldn't be discouraged. If you choose to attack someone, you're choosing to engage in PvP. Griefing should be discouraged. And while corruption does that, as it is currently designed it also discourages PKing that isn't defined as griefing. It needs more testing and balancing. But to say "I should be able to kill that guy easily because he's corrupted" is a bit of a cop out of " I don't like what he did so I should be able to kill him"
Ripteye wrote: » In Eve you can freely attack red in Hisec Space, but if Mr red has a friend who is green and in group and you attract Mr Red Mr Green because he is in group with red can attack you without consequences. That's gaming the system and is not in good taste of the intended mechanic. In my opinion.
Ripteye wrote: » I am more trying to understand how it works, and what I have gathered is this. If I am a minding my own business and get attacked the best option is to let them kill me, so they gain corruption and also not allow his uncorrupted friend the ability to kill without consequence.
Ripteye wrote: » So if I am attacked I just wont pvp then so he gains more corruption. Good to know.
Laetitian wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » In Eve you can freely attack red in Hisec Space, but if Mr red has a friend who is green and in group and you attract Mr Red Mr Green because he is in group with red can attack you without consequences. That's gaming the system and is not in good taste of the intended mechanic. In my opinion. PvP shouldn't be discouraged. If you choose to attack someone, you're choosing to engage in PvP. Griefing should be discouraged. And while corruption does that, as it is currently designed it also discourages PKing that isn't defined as griefing. It needs more testing and balancing. But to say "I should be able to kill that guy easily because he's corrupted" is a bit of a cop out of " I don't like what he did so I should be able to kill him" You should be able to ATTEMPT to kill him, but not guaranteed. And as a player engaging in PvP, you should not be exempt from what comes with it. Selfawarewolf shit right here. How do you not understand that you're contradicting yourself about the intended purpose of Corruption, when the system you're complaining about has existed in its current form for 5 years in Ashes' design, and in a functionally equal system for another 15 years in Linage 2? Do you really think game designers are so clueless that they don't understand what a system does after 20 years of observing it, and somehow you are the only person with that clarity? Are you seriously that arrogant? Intrepid knows what behaviour Corruption in its current form incentivises. Steven knows what Corruption in its current form incentivises. They've designed it that way, because that's what they want it to do. It doesn't "discourage PvP." It discourages aimless PvP. The point of Corruption is NOT JUST to discourage griefing, it's also generally to encourage deliberate risk-versus-reward assessments, instead of blind PvP for the hell of it. The exception being both players wanting to engage in it, which is why you can attack a non-combatant, see how they react, and then choose to fight it out of they opt to become a combatant.Or you accept the Corruption stacking, if their death is worth that consequence to you. (Territory control, objective control, asserting dominance, or they're carrying an exorbitant amount of resources.) That's what Corruption is for. You've literally spelled it out for yourself. Now after years on this forum, can you finally accept this reality that you're not meant to be picking fights with killing/assassinating random opportunistic targets, if you're not willing to accept the Corruption, after you've clearly laid out the proof for yourself, or are you going to keep pretending Corruption would be an anti-bullying-tool only?Sidenote: when I first joined this forum, my background was a game where griefing and/or PKing were considered normal too, and I thought Corruption was intended to work in Ashes the way you keep telling yourself it works, too. It took me about a week of reading Lineage 2 players' explanations of it to figure out I was wrong, and to understand that Corruption is meant to work the way it does because that restriction is part of the intended PvX game loop. The fact that you've been here for longer than me and still stick to your initial assumptions is driving me hella mad. I don't understand how a person can be okay with being so stubborn and arrogant.
Dolyem wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » In Eve you can freely attack red in Hisec Space, but if Mr red has a friend who is green and in group and you attract Mr Red Mr Green because he is in group with red can attack you without consequences. That's gaming the system and is not in good taste of the intended mechanic. In my opinion. PvP shouldn't be discouraged. If you choose to attack someone, you're choosing to engage in PvP. Griefing should be discouraged. And while corruption does that, as it is currently designed it also discourages PKing that isn't defined as griefing. It needs more testing and balancing. But to say "I should be able to kill that guy easily because he's corrupted" is a bit of a cop out of " I don't like what he did so I should be able to kill him" You should be able to ATTEMPT to kill him, but not guaranteed. And as a player engaging in PvP, you should not be exempt from what comes with it.
Laetitian wrote: » Luckily, I wasn't talking about definitions. I was talking about practical functionality. I can't tell you enough: Actions (in this case years worth of game design decisions) speak louder than words. Actions that have been repeated for 5 years, based on evidence that has been observed and endorsed for 20 years. But keep thinking you know better than everyone else and being loud, I don't envy you for your harsh awakening when you failed to adjust your interpretation of the game's design philosophies until the game's release.
Aszkalon wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » So if I am attacked I just wont pvp then so he gains more corruption. Good to know. You should however "ONLY" do that, if you have nothing or not much to lose. You get what i want to tell you ? if you have no Ressources in your pockets you can lose on Death, and some Person can not get enough from ever ganking You - oh "PLEASE" let him kill You a few times. He will need some Time or Deaths to work this corruption off, and he is getting weaker everytime he kills You. By the way, your Attacker getting weaker should be encouraging You to fight back at some Point. It makes Sense that it would encourage People. The Person bullying you gets weaker and weaker everytime. Heheheheh. Plus this is the Part where the juicy Fun of the Bountyhunter System comes in.
Ripteye wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » So if I am attacked I just wont pvp then so he gains more corruption. Good to know. You should however "ONLY" do that, if you have nothing or not much to lose. You get what i want to tell you ? if you have no Ressources in your pockets you can lose on Death, and some Person can not get enough from ever ganking You - oh "PLEASE" let him kill You a few times. He will need some Time or Deaths to work this corruption off, and he is getting weaker everytime he kills You. By the way, your Attacker getting weaker should be encouraging You to fight back at some Point. It makes Sense that it would encourage People. The Person bullying you gets weaker and weaker everytime. Heheheheh. Plus this is the Part where the juicy Fun of the Bountyhunter System comes in. I don't care about what I lose I just want jerks to be red. I am also Smart enough to know there is a 99% chance Mr. red guy is baiting me so his friends can join in
Ripteye wrote: » I am also Smart enough to know there is a 99% chance me red guy is baiting me so his friends can join in
Noaani wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » I am also Smart enough to know there is a 99% chance me red guy is baiting me so his friends can join in You should probably strive to be more observant then. If 99% of the time you are attacked in PvP you are not situationally aware enough to know if there are others that close, you deserve to lose 99% of PvP encounters. If you are going to go around letting people kill you without fighting back because you think they have friends nearby, all that means is that you will be an easy target for people that do not have friends near by.
Ripteye wrote: » I'm speaking from experience baiting people in Eve as the baiter
Noaani wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » I'm speaking from experience baiting people in Eve as the baiter Then you should consider the differences between Ashes and EVE. if you want to play devils advocate, you need to talk about situations that are likely to actually happen in the game you are talking about. Yeah, the system has flaws - but that is inherent to PvP in a persistent world. As soon as you put those two things together, there is no flawless way to implement things. It isn't a case of eliminating flaws, it is a case of selecting the set of flaws you think - as a developer - you can best work with.
Ripteye wrote: » Right now I can only assume.
Noaani wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » Right now I can only assume. So, if many other posters that have played games that have systems much closer to Ashes than what you have played are all telling you "no, that won't be how it works", perhaps you should change up that assumption.
Ripteye wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Ripteye wrote: » Right now I can only assume. So, if many other posters that have played games that have systems much closer to Ashes than what you have played are all telling you "no, that won't be how it works", perhaps you should change up that assumption. I am not assuming I am asking, ok I suppose I did assume a little. My intent is to understand though.
