How many players should it take to kill a healer

Whats everyone's thoughts on this?, from previous experience I think many games miss the sweet spot with healers in PvP and make them either too easy to kill or damn close to impossible.

Watching A1 footage back, there are quite a few videos of clerics doing things like 7v1, this should never be allowed to happen in a MMO,

Personally I think healers should be able to withstand at least two other players attacking them, but I also believe that there should be out play potentials for people to burst down a healer with silences or cc.

It's definitely a tricky thing to balance, I'm interested to hear people's opinions

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nanfoodle

rollox wrote: »

It shouldn't be balanced based on 1v1. Would be pretty nasty to say that a Cleric is just dead in any and every encounter against anyone else.

There's some misconception in this thread using the word healer. Lots of assumptions that means just cleric. What about Bard, or a fighter or some class that has their own capacity to self heal?

This isn't about just a squishy priest in cloth robes and a wand. In Ashes you will be encountering healers in all forms be it a dps fighter/cleric or a cleric/mage... Or what about Bard/Cleric. Summoners? Necros? Shadow Cleric Rogue.

I would certainly hope that a Shadow Rogue will lay out serious damage before you even know something attacked you

Cleric is the only healers. You need to heal a large volume of hp = Clerics.

Bards go back to old school. Not trinity, Tank, DPS and Heals. It's Tank, DPS, Heals and Support.

It's something special 😊 dose not change the fact, a PvX healing class that's spec as healer should be able to keep themselves alive even under burst damage when skilled.

Otr

A post was meant to this thread but landed in another:

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

imagine if you can't kill a healer who is only healing and othing else... !! LOL

Well, at least EVE Online got this right, when your ship gets out of capacitor (mana) then all your active resistances shutdown and you become paper thing so your tanking simply crumbles and you die, it won't matter anymore how high your healing was

rollox

Is it then Ashes is more of a diamond instead of a trinity triangle. Tank, DPS, Support, Heal. Where each can slide themselves slightly through augment towards other roles. Because so far all that has been presented has been Tank, DPS, Support. And healing falls into the support role.

I know it's a facetious argument because clearly the Cleric is main healer. But for sake of debate, does not a diamond represent this better than a trinity?

And totally agree on the mana. A Cleric out of mana is a Cleric on the run and dead. But that is a feature of every class being OOM and special resource makes any class at disadvantage.

I do like the thought that this should be better presented as TTK instead of how many players. And in that TTK is the calculation of mana and special resources,chow long it takes a player to burn through those resources, and how long they can maintain their health.

nanfoodle

rollox wrote: »

Is it then Ashes is more of a diamond instead of a trinity triangle. Tank, DPS, Support, Heal. Where each can slide themselves slightly through augment towards other roles. Because so far all that has been presented has been Tank, DPS, Support. And healing falls into the support role.

I know it's a facetious argument because clearly the Cleric is main healer. But for sake of debate, does not a diamond represent this better than a trinity?

And totally agree on the mana. A Cleric out of mana is a Cleric on the run and dead. But that is a feature of every class being OOM and special resource makes any class at disadvantage.

I do like the thought that this should be better presented as TTK instead of how many players. And in that TTK is the calculation of mana and special resources,chow long it takes a player to burn through those resources, and how long they can maintain their health.

Yes this is not a trinity system, Heals and Support are two different rolls. Why? Because there is very few games that have Pure Support rolls that are not focused on heals. In a way, Bard make all other class do their rolls better. Classes like Bards, any damage they do is just a bonus and its not why they are invited to the team.

Aszkalon

It should take Zero People to kill a Healer.

Healers should die completely from alone and from doing nothing. There, Problem solved.

Srixun

About 3.5.

the .5 because well.. you gotta include the dwarves.

Itzme

You can tell what role most of the comments play by the bias of the comments. I think you need to layout a scenario to have a real discussion. Then the real topic becomes what type of PVP is better, battle of attrition vs zerg etc. Then which style is more preferred lays out the answer to your question.

Hinotori

I think it should take 1 person an extremely long time to kill a healer. like... If it's a 1 on 1 fight to the death then it should be about who has better mana management and CC's best with silencers will win the day.

if you have 2 people, then the healer should have a fighting shot at getting away if they're focused on self heal and running but shouldn't win in combat.

3 or more and you're nuking that 1 cleric.

if you add anyone to the clerics party though it gets infinitely more complex.

PenguinPaladin

Adjacent question... how many healers should it take to kill a player?

To really think about the player vs healers roles tho. In a 1v1, a healer with mana and access to casting should be nearly invincible.

To make the 1v1 end, the aggressor should have to strategically time their silences for when the healer dipps into kill range, or drain the healers mana. Killing a healer in a 1v1 should be a struggle, not because you are at risk, but because you cant really put them at risk easily.

Same with a 2v1 or a 3v1. It shouldnt be a question of killing the healer. It should be a question of how long until they drain the mana, or how low they need the hp before they chain silences.

Look at the same concept but with a bard. Should bard win ANY 1v1? No its the buffing class. Healer is in the same boat, kind of. Im not saying tie their hands and make them heal bots. But when is comes to efficiency, make them able to heal for a long time, and deal decent damage for a short time. If their attacks are potent but costly, they would live longer just healing, of they would take the risk to go agressive if they thought they had an opportunity.

Maybe even go so far as to make some of their stronger attack spells lower their mana regen for a set time. Things like that, to persuade them to focus on healing, its more efficient, sustainable, and your role! Without making them defenseless.

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