What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?

So, we were told in the stream, before the fight, that FireBrand was going to do something that was surprising.

I want to briefly discuss this separately because I want to calibrate my expectations. I watched the fight pretty carefully, but I can't figure out what Firebrand did, that wasn't entirely just what you would expect.

Now, I know that I'm a Monster Hunter player so I have different ideas, so I ask, for those who mostly only play MMOs or don't play either MMOs or Monster Hunter style games...

What surprised/impressed you about FireBrand's actions or mechanics?

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Mag7spy

Everything done from the dragon was expected, when i think of a dragon its hard to be really surprised since people know what to expect from them. Its good they have the dragon seeming to use some magic which make me think dragons dogma

It doesn't mean its bad of course even more so if you are looking at the level of that kind of boss fight.

When i think Elden ring bayle doesn't do anything special and just does dragon stuff but its very epic feeling to me atleast. But at the same time i don't expect a young dragon to be bringing super epic end game raid boss vibes. Their dragon looked amazing but do to the terming with it being a young dragon i expect other color variants and such and not fully akin to a unique dragon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_Qp8Xn0m8

*edit of course there are tons of cool things you could add to the fight, but I feel atm we are mainly going to be seeing introduction level bosses (that will have more heavy on the side of gear check difficulty) then more complex mechanics.

Imo there should prob be a few more stronger attacks that it doesn't use very often which will lean towards being able to wipe out zergs (if it uses it more often). And having player bodies making it more difficult to get around and dodge the attack.

Caeryl

The lack of motion probably. For being such a huge fight space, very little of it was used

Lodrig

For me the Dragon waiting patently for a bunch of humans to attack it first, rather then aggressivly attacking anyone in the area would certainly surprize me if a real dragon behaved like that. I kind of expect a dragon to be atleast as much of a jerk as the average open world pvper.

Mag7spy

Lodrig wrote: »

For me the Dragon waiting patently for a bunch of humans to attack it first, rather then aggressivly attacking anyone in the area would certainly surprize me if a real dragon behaved like that. I kind of expect a dragon to be atleast as much of a jerk as the average open world pvper.

So im guessing all mobs need to be attacking everything on sight sense it knows its going to be attacked. So technically if you go into a camp the entire camp should zerg people?

Sometimes i here these kinds of suggestions and they don't seem akin to a mmorpg.

Even in dragons dogma dragons don't attack you instantly just being in sight in far distance.

Githal

For me: i was surprised that clerics can spam revives. Like WTF... Steven spent more time resurrecting players than healing. This was real BS.
Resurrect should have like 30 min cd, maybe some talent can make it have 2 charges.
Or it should have no cd but cost 70% of max mana.
If you want more resurrects - put resurrect on Bards. But like in 40 man party you should have like max 10 revives. In this fight we saw like 50 resurrects.

Else the dragon fight was good.

From the citadel i was expecting more. Like the Ancient in the end should be some kind of boss fight.
There should be traps that the fire elements put in the citadel where they can for example reduce healing, stun, or stuff like this.
Maybe put a fire wave moving from the entrance forward that forces everyone to move forward, Getting in touch with the fire wave is instant kill.

Mag7spy

Githal wrote: »

For me: i was surprised that clerics can spam revives. Like WTF... Steven spent more time resurrecting players than healing. This was real BS.
Resurrect should have like 30 min cd, maybe some talent can make it have 2 charges.
Or it should have no cd but cost 70% of max mana.
If you want more resurrects - put resurrect on Bards. But like in 40 man party you should have like max 10 revives. In this fight we saw like 50 resurrects.

Else the dragon fight was good.

From the citadel i was expecting more. Like the Ancient in the end should be some kind of boss fight.
There should be traps that the fire elements put in the citadel where they can for example reduce healing, stun, or stuff like this.
Maybe put a fire wave moving from the entrance forward that forces everyone to move forward, Getting in touch with the fire wave is instant kill.

Steven had god mode on so he didnt die and had infinite everything so people could view the content + so they didnt wipe.

Caeryl

Mag7spy wrote: »

Lodrig wrote: »

For me the Dragon waiting patently for a bunch of humans to attack it first, rather then aggressivly attacking anyone in the area would certainly surprize me if a real dragon behaved like that. I kind of expect a dragon to be atleast as much of a jerk as the average open world pvper.

So im guessing all mobs need to be attacking everything on sight sense it knows its going to be attacked. So technically if you go into a camp the entire camp should zerg people?

Sometimes i here these kinds of suggestions and they don't seem akin to a mmorpg.

Even in dragons dogma dragons don't attack you instantly just being in sight in far distance.

Unless I missed the actual quest premise, this was a dragon whose egg was just stolen, so it should be much more hostile than normal

MrJones77

What I took away from this stream was older dragons will be way more tough. Sure they had some dev modes in to keep from a total wipe, but it was nice to see a raid finally

Ludullu

Nothing surprised me. It was a basic, classic dragon. The only thing that could have potential is the "he hits the bigger gatherings of people more often", but imo even that is a super basic mechanic that should be in every damn game.

Aszkalon

Azherae wrote: »

What surprised you in the FireBrand fight ?

The "Body-Slam Attack" where he shortly flew up and then QUICKLY slammed down again to crush a few of his Opponents under his huge Body, cut me off guard.

It is like what the Flying Mount-Dragons from the Node-War could do as well -> but it felt faster.

I hope the "Breath-Attack" gets a bit of a bigger Flame and more glowing Ground. To emphasise Power. But otherwise it was a nice, cool Dragonfight.

Kinda like in WoW. But this here looked quicker and of Course - better, more modern - and more realistic, due to the superior Graphic and "Graphic-Style".

RocketFarmer

My surprise was there’s a young dragon who has an egg that’s been trapped for 1000 years. How exactly old is a young dragon???

As for expecting more from the Citadel, they did state at the beginning that it was the end of the event.

Kyskei

to me as an experienced raider it seemed very straight forward but when I take into account that this is only a level 25 raid boss I'm quite impressed. the difficulty seems to be above what I'm used to for such a low level.

they have said that they are making ashes a relatively hard MMO. and from what I saw today I am overjoyed that they seem to be living up to that promise.

I also really enjoyed the model and animations of Firebrand. personally I'd like the boss to operate at a higher pace. but I'm sure I'll get plenty of hectic high paced fights at higher levels so I'm not fussed about it.

Varkun

Just as an aside to the age categories for dragons as an old Dungeons & Dragons player I love this idea. Quite a number of years ago Steven showed us some concept art for a dragon and for a sense of scale there was a human standing next to it, the human came up to its claw on its foot.
So buckle up when you finally come across a level 50 dragon raid boss 40 people just might not cut it.

I actually quite liked the way it jumped back before it did its breath attack to try and hit as many targets as possible.

Nerror

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

Otr

I think the surprise was about what kind of content they will show us, not compared to other games but as a milestone on their internal roadmap.

rollox

Generally what Nerror said that the dragon pretty much did dragon things and as expected. It seems that is a common response to this dragon was that it just looked like your standard run of the mill raid that has been done before many times.

However, I did find the dragons use of magic to be surprising. Throughout the raid the dragon would uses physical and breath attacks. So maybe a little more elemental connection to those attacks, the claws apply a bleed and burning. Needs a little more magic. Maybe tail swipe is a pushback with a detonate explosion.

Because the power of the actual magic used was pretty substantial. Summon what looked like 20 elementals. And then use an elemental life steal, or whatever it was, a power drain on those summons to build rage. It seemed the raid was not prepared for that. And even a designer was surprised by I don't believe he got eleven stacks.

It was pretty clear that the raid was done for at that point. Half the raid was wiped out by the follow up enraged dragon attacks. Even Steven Tha God would've been disintegrated in that moment he ran right into the dragons maw and fire.

But for showcase purposes, they were able to recover and succeed.

Since this Firebrand clearly has some powerful magic, it would be neat to see more of that used earlier in the raid. To keep players on their toes because this is a powerful supernatural beast.

Noaani

Nerror wrote: »

While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.

I completely agree with this, but I think you are missing an important aspect.

In terms of PvE content, Steven is one of those new players. I'm sure the encounter did things he has never seen before - even if it is only basic mechanics at play to anyone that has run PvE content.

nanfoodle

If you watch closely we did not see the whole raid. It was highly edited. I don't think we saw the part they said was unique.

Made me smile that Steven needed to be made unkillable. They would have wiped otherwise. He just kept resing everyone.

Percimes

I'm not sure if 'surprise' is the right word for any of my impressions. From my point of view, someone who hasn't concentrate much game time on boss fight, it looked pretty standard to what I've done and seen in the past.

Positive impression: breath weapon used both from the ground and as a flying attack. I haven't seen much of this in my limited experience, but I expect it has already been done, at least I hope so.

Minor limited negative impressions: for a creature of this size, its attacks lacked the physical impact one would think come with the weight behind them. Size, not level. For something this big I would expect tail swipes to project those hit some distance, in an ark (those missed could stay in place having ducked below the passing tail). Same with paw attacks, on a smaller scale. When taking flight, everyone in front getting pushed back by the wind generated by the wings. Hard landing making the ground shake, and players lose their footing, going prone if already unstable... That kind of things.

If it's a question of level... maybe size it down?

Azherae

RocketFarmer wrote: »

My surprise was there’s a young dragon who has an egg that’s been trapped for 1000 years. How exactly old is a young dragon???

As for expecting more from the Citadel, they did state at the beginning that it was the end of the event.

It could be that the egg is Firebrand's unhatched sibling rather than child or something.

1000 years 'young dragon' is believable enough, for some settings. Going beyond that is a little weird for me personally,

Honestly depending on the familial status of Dragons, i.e. if they form up or have tyrannies or such, I'd think 'my unhatched sibling whose power still shapes the world by flowing out into the Citadel, guarded by my friend and confidant He-Who-Beguiles, has been taken and I will not have it' is pretty believable.

(as a general reminder, I'm not saying this fight needed to be different, I'm just trying to figure out what I missed about it, I play lots of such things so I know that nothing will surprise me, but I have no model of what the team thought would surprise someone except I guess now just Aszkalon giving the WoW player perspective of 'oh hey it has touchdown/crashdown that's neat/surprising!', and I'm not sure if to just assign that as the 'surprising' thing...)

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