akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Q: Why did you stop to play an MMO you once loved?
A: L2 > The server numbers got lower overall, there were only the long term players, it was too much of a climb and duration for new players to catchup to enjoy time with the veteran players.. and players started to try out new games..
B: ESO > Became a grind and more an individual game without so much purpose
C: Conan > Lack of players BDO > The grind and lack of need to play with other people so much
E: New World > Still play, but feels like a solo game with pug group play.. not much need, want or benefit from being in a guild or community
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited May 5
Ashes of Creation`s nodal system and sheer large population caps hopefully cultivates vibrant community hubs, mitigating the issue of server decline.
In theory, the nodes (hubs) should create bustling social spaces and activities, reducing the risk of servers feeling deserted as populations fluctuate as these will be a scaling number of centralizing activity points.
Hope that when a server gets lower, that with less overall nodes but the ones remaining still populus.
Moreover, the game's adaptive scaling mechanism appears to ensure that regardless of server size, players can always find areas that match their preferred level of activity and engagement. This dynamic approach mimics real-world population dynamics, allowing players to experience everything from bustling metropolises to serene countryside retreats and everywhere in-between within the game world.
I see this also hopefully working for those that are pvp centric and those pvp adverse. Distant nodes likely different in personality.
By prioritizing community building and adaptability, Ashes of Creation hopefully provides a more sustainable and engaging MMO experience than what is on the market at the moment, that evolves alongside its player base, evolving a world that always feels alive and full of opportunities.
Should that be so, then:
Hopefully, new players can find these nodes easily and be welcomed in somehow
There is sufficient reason and activity to stay with any given node
The node local and size can change its personality
Hope that the sweet spot between change and stability is found in nodal status such that players stay invested and interested
Man it hurts to say it now but ESO was my baby. I played Skyrim and always yearned for a bit of multiplayer in it and wouldn't you have it ESO was released. I played for nearly 9 years religiously I joined major Guilds and was known by many as a dangerous person to come across on the battlefield on the EP side of the fight. Unfortunately the thing that killed the game for me and many others that had played ESO since release was animation canceling. It absolutely ruined the game. Most of my buddies/guildmates who had played since release found this feature terrible. We learned to do it and hated ourselves because of it. It made the game easy. Although animation canceling mostly ruined the game I feel it was minor changes like the pay wall for certain quality of life items in game that played a roll as well. It's like companies get greedy when they see a game doing well and then just think of ways to get more money. It makes no sense and I hate feeling like I'm being forced to buy something in a game that I'm interested in. I can confidently say most gamers that are hooked on a game are more than willing to buy cosmetic items just because they are cool in order to support the game we love.
Endgame issues. Mainly a situation where I am a part of a guild. I help the guild level and get gear, then when the guild reaches around the second or third to top tier in endgame, I am cut off and told to take a hike so they can bring their close friends that have not be doing the heavy lifting.
The one thing I like about the achievement system is I can show my experience and that I have walked the walk, no matter how many former guildies bad mouth me.
Like many of us, I've played a range of MMOs, and played, taken breaks, or stopped completely.
Runescape - I did many of the quests, reached high-ish skill levels. I quit as it felt like my time wasn't respected, and the best way to progress was pay to win. The time to progress balance was great a low levels, and diminished at higher.
New World - I quit at lvl 59, when majority of the Territories at high level were owned by other factions. They purposely didn't put missions up to replenish their Town Board. There were no alternate quests, and grinding was the only options. It immediate sucked the fun out of it for me, I logged out and never returned.
Retail WOW - I'm on a break at the moment, but largely the hamster wheel grinding of M+ and Raiding has now gotten old. New content, new item levels, near gearing, all to be wiped for a rinse repeat. It's fun when new, but gets old quickly. Also I enjoy open world content, which is generally limited to more so Rep grinds.
ESO/Guild Wars - Hit max level/did the story, found it a bit hard to get into group content. This one's more so on me, but as a newbie to these games, the systems were a little overwhelming. I'll revisit at some stage.
Final Fantasy - the MSQ felt like a chore, with mainly dialogue quests and limited combat. It was a nice distraction for a while.
Keep in mind- by actual law, a publically traded company serves a single purpose; making money for it's shareholders.
Well aware of that, Noaani.
It is just - > after like +Ten Years of watching different Video Game Companies do all the same -> meaning changing the Game and/or the Terms of Service, or Rules, or whatever you would call it,
to the Extent that People can call it " under false pretenses " - > resulting in most of the Gamerbase leaving and then the Game dies an ugly, slow Death,
it is just that this gets SOOOO. OOOLLLD. and tedious to watch. I am so goddamn tired to see the same shit repeating itself over and over again.
And while it is not all Video Games but just a handful of them which actually did that, ( including Planetside II ),
it gets REALLY OLD real fast, if this happens to One or several Videogames you actually enjoyed playing a lot. When you actually get your Fun ruined for good, only because a few Developers can't get the Greed-Stick out of their Asses,
it hurts a lot. And that Trust is never coming back. You are usually done then with the Company for good. I advise Everyone involved to keep a healthy Grudge as in never spending Money again to the Companies concerned.
I mean - > sure, if People WANT to get taken the piss on and getting exploited for their Money and swindled into buying a Product that is in the End completely different than what they paid for,
then People can do that. Everyone is free to get scammed willingly. (lol)
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
to the Extent that People can call it " under false pretenses " - > resulting in most of the Gamerbase leaving and then the Game dies an ugly, slow Death,
Keep in mind - the game you are primarily complaining about has now been live for 10 years, and has an anual revenue of eight million dollars from 200k monthly users (as of 2020).
The game did not die that ugly, slow death you are talking about.
All the changes that you are complaining about did was make you not play it, many others still do.
Sure, you are tired of it happening - but that is literally the nature of online games; they change over time. You complain that they change, others complain that they do not.
At the end of the day, it is the function of the company that makes/publishes the games in question to make money. If a change to the game is what they think will make the most money, then that is what will happen.
When you actually get your Fun ruined for good, only because a few Developers can't get the Greed-Stick out of their Asses
You started your post off by saying you understand, and yet here are illustrating that you do not understand.
As far as I am concerned, you are more than welcome to be angry, sad, upset, pissed off - what ever - about the things you are talking about, even if the games you are talking about never had that death you claim.
However, if you are going to have any of the above emotions, be sure and know whose fault they are. They are not the fault of game developers - many of them are doing what is required of them to keep their job, and may hate the changes even more than you do. It is not the fault of their bosses either - they are in the same situation.
It is also not the fault of the CEO of the company, they have that legal obligation to make as much money as they can.
The fault lies in shareholders. Blame them when you rant about it, not developers.
Also, people aren't getting scammed - at least not by the companies in question. If you go in to any service assuming it will be the same forever, an argument could be made that you are scamming yourself. It is a part of the agreement of every online game I have played that the gameplay experience may change - so the developers changing the gameplay experience is not them scamming you.
Again, keep that in mind with your next rant about this - them doing something they said they may do is not them scamming you.
Keep in mind - the game you are primarily complaining about has now been live for 10 years, and has an anual revenue of eight million dollars from 200k monthly users (as of 2020).
The game did not die that ugly, slow death you are talking about.
" Yet ".
The Game i mean (Planetside II) has not died "yet". It is however barely more than a Corpse, when the Servers are so empty that the Games' System doesn't even unlock the full Continent/s on which the Players are on.
Sure, you are tired of it happening - but that is literally the nature of online games; they change over time. You complain that they change, others complain that they do not.
Is getting scammed also "just the Nature of online games" ?
Because i know not all VideoGame Developers change their Game into a different Product after Release and after cashing in nice Customer-Purchases.
At the end of the day, it is the function of the company that makes/publishes the games in question to make money. If a change to the game is what they think will make the most money, then that is what will happen.
Even if it means losing Trust of Customers forever which they threw under the Bus, huh ? I mean, okay. You are right. I am not even trying to argue against this. People can do with their Games they developed whatever they want.
Just hoping over here that VideoGamers will not forget it, when being taken the piss on like nothing else. For Example, apparently "Helldivers II" has done something very similar - just in another way.
Could be that "PC"-Gamer will remember this Company which made the Game. And not in a good way.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I will never forgive NCSoft for what they did to L2
Good News then ... ...
... ... apparently People " CAN " make shitty Companies - for Example Ubisoft - pay, for - well - being shitty.
And be it even an just a tiny Iota in this Sea and Ocean of Retaliations and Punishments that the paying Customer Base can hand out against whole Companies.
I played Dungeons and Dragons Online from Beta (2005-2006) all the way until last year (2023). I am a long time Wizard/Mage player. The Dungeons and Dragons Online spell list is very expansive, and as a Wizard, you had a tool for most scenarios. The game created Epic levels and then Reapers levels. This pretty much was just INCREASE monster HP, INCREASE monster DPS, and DECREASE the amount of time CC was on the monster. The majority of the spells never caught up to the new state of the game which is just MAX DPS everything. This made the game feel one dimensional and stale. My biggest fear with Ashes is that their current spell lists falls way short of the spell utility and spell choices of Dungeons and Dragons Online. Granted it's Alpha. There are currently approximately 206 arcane spells in Dungeons and Dragons Online. Most are fairly useless now, but when the game was at it's peak, you actually felt like a Wizard. I made the decision to stop playing Dungeons and Dragons online until they do a robust Spell Pass. Make Magic Great Again!. I was hopeful that Ashes of Creation would have gone the route of BIG Magic events and battlefield events created by rituals of combined Mage effects, but it seems to be going the route of MAX DPS from what I have observed so far.
The main aspect that kept me playing for so many years beyond the spells is the customization and they implemented a True Resurrection mechanic. Essentially, once you reach max level you could go back to level 1 and keep a small piece of power form each class, race, iconic, or epic destiny. You could do each one 3 times.
I quit playing almost all MMOs because of the gear progression system. I never had time to play 8+ hours every day, also never bought gold.
In most MMOs PVP is unplayable, because you get steamrolled by whales, high schoolers and unemployed people.
This is why I played GW2 for the longest period of time. Even with orange armor and 1 set of legendary weapons I could beat people decked up with legendaries, using only skill and a good build.
The basic gear in structured arena PVP is also a pretty awesome approach to solve this problem.
Runescape: past like skill level 50 the game just becomes a mindless grind to progress. Pretty sure the first time I quit was before any expansion. The Dragon Slayer quest was basically the ultimate endgame. I did dabble in OSRS and quit in basically the same place. Too grindy and the grind is boring.
SWG: I ran out of things that I wanted to do and wasn't willing to put the effort into force sensitive or jedi.
WoW: Played from essentially the BWL patch until the content drought at the end of Wrath. I did come back for Cata, but it was too different and many friends started playing Rift and Aeon and I don't remember what else.
SWTOR: Launch player. Endgame was lacking and the non-open world and single player feel to leveling was terrible for me. I did not play long at all. If there's any game on this list I wished I'd played more it's probably this one. But when I quit, I had nothing to do besides pvp grind.
GW2: Combat was too simple and endgame pve was too easy and grindy feeling. I found the pvp less engaging than WoW or SWTOR, which is funny because it was considered the game for pvpers back then.
Wildstar: Launch player. Ummm...yeah. The world at launch really had that WoW feel to it, but nothing was good at endgame. The idea behind the crafting system was good, but the stat system made it suck. I had rolled a Warrior to tank, and it was incapable of tanking raids. A lifetime of jumping puzzles wasn't my.thing either. I decided the game wasn't for me before it even fell off.
TESO: I started playing real late into the game, like a tear or more. Cyrodiil eventually got boring. The PVE wasn't good enough to hold my attention. The combat never sat well with me. It felt better than New World for sure, but the animation canceling felt like more of a gimmick than how combat should be.
New World: I made it to level 42 and the swamp zone. The combat is just really bad and it took me that long to figure out that it never gets better.
EQ - played from 99 for 10yrs. Left once got bored with new content being same old with new skins and once reached limit of tolerance of lack of update of character models and graphics.
WoW - played off/on left when it became more of a job to log in rather than fun. Gave up on PvP once they started taking rewards away just because I had to take time off. Also got annoyed with PvP due to lack of consequences for attacking just to be annoying and interrupting other's game play.
Misc others, most came down to either, content locked behind achievements not worth the time (Too reliant on RNG and camping) or started relying too much on gambling (purchased loot boxes) to attain upgrades. Also, being in groups that speed run content when I much prefer exploring and figuring out alternate ways to accomplish goals.
I don't mind grinding to an extent nor long time investments as long as progress isn't impossible. Best experiences I had was taking 3+ hours to cross from Kunark to Qeynos and on to Odus for monk quests using unreliable feign death skills to avoid death. It's often quite fun to discover new and innovative ways to die.
I stopped playing Age of Reckoning because one of the faction was substantially better than the other. Kinda defeats the whole point of the game which was RvR when one team is baseline so much better than the other.
In most MMOs PVP is unplayable, because you get steamrolled by whales, high schoolers and unemployed people.
You totally won the Internet or at least this Forum for a Day with your Comment. I felt so much Truth in it. Take my Life. Also nice Warhammer40K-like Name. .
I must admit,
in for Example Worst of Warcraft,
you had to be - and STILL have to be -> an absolute "No-Lifer" regarding your Reallife, if you want to actually stand a real Chance against most People in PvP.
And even then, sometimes a Pre-Made Group usually massacres your own Raid mostly made out of Casuals and the whole Match is a lost cause from Second One.
This is why I played GW2 for the longest period of time. Even with orange armor and 1 set of legendary weapons I could beat people decked up with legendaries, using only skill and a good build.
The basic gear in structured arena PVP is also a pretty awesome approach to solve this problem.
I like it when Preparation, Knowledge and Investment into your Character can give you an actually nice Chance even if are still somewhat noticeably weaker.
It gives a Person the Feeling that you don't waste your time in a completely fruitless Effort when doing for Example PvP.
And that You don't have to play +5 to +8 Hours Everyday. Because Reallife is a bi~aaaaXxX sometimes and will never allow anyone to invest so much time into your beloved MMO Character.
I miss the Time when MMO's were always fun for awhile. And without the constant Need for new Expansions and Contents all the time. When the whole Game was satisfying.
I know that the World of constant Change - the World of Verra - will be able to rekindle this Feeling. You will always have something to do - but you don't need to force yourself.
However you will need to invest "somewhat" time if you want to get your Node and Guild/s somewhere.
Damn i am aware i kinda hijacked the Point of this Topic.
Again.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
It was supposed to be 1 character per realm, but they couldn't/wouldn't really enforce it. The best they could do is ban IPs from VPN servers and try to monitor. Eventually they gave up and stopped banning people.
I hated controlling a bunch of characters at once, I'd rather just pay attention to one. A lot of people followed the rules with a kind of honor system, but of course people would cheat and you would get owned by dupes in town recording your movements, multiboxers 1 shot backstabbing with 4 thieves.
Eventually I just got tired of constantly being outmatched and i didn't want to do what it takes to win.
Everquest (First game i played 2001-2004
Quit for WoW since it was more polished/combat was smoother was also where i devoped my taste for PvP
WoW
Quit WoW when they removed the MMO feeling (added way to many conviences/chores) and became more single player lobby experience with daily quests chores (Some time during WoLK) PvE became braid dead easy too with add ons
Played league and killed time in that until 2009 when darkfall came out in 2009
-Played darkfall for 2 years until devs kinda failed that game with poor decission and slow development time
played FF14 after that for about 9 months, quit due to lack of PvP and PvE was easy at the time (might be harder now not sure)
Twiddled my thumbs in league and other minor titles till 2013 where i played darkfall unholy wars for a year or so before same issues as darkfall had
Pretty much had nothing worth playing that was memorable up until crowfall early access (2019 i think) which was fun played however devs made poor decisions (listen only to the big zerg guild) and than they release the game to early no whgere near completed due to lack of fund and that game died shortly afterwards
which i moved to new world which was kinda terrible game however was the only game realy that offered some kinda of pvp however quit that due to lack of open world pvp
and since then been twiddling my thumbs waiting for something else
I never really *loved* SWTOR, from day one - but played per following a guild over from SWG - which I love, to this day.
SWTOR's "Hero" game-engine seems as though it makes a long and difficult process for new content to be created/added. Also, it was too "WoW" in that a large part of the game was repeating content you already did. It was also too alt-reliant, and the end-game of SWTOR just seemed like it was to collect all the cash-shop items via directly buying or trading for them, then using IRL money so you could summon them to your many, many alts.
I *LOVED* Star Wars: Galaxies, but they shut it down. I was there at the lights-out party. Thankfully, the SWG: Legends emulator came up in 2016, and I've mostly been there, since. No p2w, no cash shop, and new content from all-volunteer devs.
It's more like a better version of the game, than what/how the live-version ended!
I dropped archeage(after 8 years) cuz they removed every content i liked and added time limits for arenas and BG.
Time limits on pvp content most stupid thing I've ever seen in mmoprg. Even more stupid than lootboxes
WoW
Quit WoW when they removed the MMO feeling (added way to many conviences/chores) and became more single player lobby experience with daily quests chores (Some time during WoLK) PvE became braid dead easy too with add ons
Since WoW was my only MMO which I ever played seriously, this is the only aspect in most of these posts which I can relate and react to.
To say the expectation subverting thing... I actually like a player lobby experience.
That is if people define this with this "living & breathing world" in which you see many players run around and do things beside your own character.
Having to play with others is a good thing but only by choice. And in that sense WoW did everything right.
No I think what truly killed WoW for many people is that grinds have always gotten more & more numerous in general and their lenght never truly shrinks, no matter how many DECADES long they exist.
And this in itself feels condescending I think.
Some of the contents in WoW had to shrink inevitably cause it became too blatantly obvious that the starting point got tinier & tinier in the distance, for those who grinded regularly.
And then a new player can see the Mt.Everest in front of them and then 6 more Mt.Everets stacked on top of that thing cause... why not?
Intimidating, demotivating.
Followed up by...
I dropped archeage(after 8 years) cuz they removed every content i liked and added time limits for arenas and BG.
Time limits on pvp content most stupid thing I've ever seen in mmoprg. Even more stupid than lootboxes
... yeaaaaaah, the absolute worst sin in any MMO. TIMELIMITED things.
Ultimately these result in mostly toxic and negative feelings.
Cause the amount of people missing out will always grow in contrast to those who haven't missed out.
All just for the ego a few water drops of players who might as well be invisible, a meager chosen few, who can never stand out in the vast sea of players which they are a part of.
With the occassional few people ever so often realizing that they have missed out on stuff cuz it was timelimited and then they fall into eternal frustration because of it.
Frustration that is maybe the goal (?) and gleefully observed with spite (?) by those who haven't missed out?
People can claim this is not the case.
But I know my gamer-kind.
Many are not motivated by positive behaviour and feelings.
Everquest- I will never forgive soe for deleting my characters while i was on deployment serving in the US Navy. That made me quit for over 2 years. I came back and quit again and stayed gone.
Everquest 2 was my home for almost 4 years i quit the game when it went free to play and I had to subscribe to use or wear my hard earned raid gear. again F u smedley you corporate sycophant.
LOTRO- My account got hacked and i was never able to recover it. Made me switch from yahoo to gmail for my game accounts due to that security issue.
AOC - just a garbage game never played retail i was turned off during beta.
WoW - never played retail wow still havent have only played private servers.
Wildstar - was wildly fun to play leveling up too bad the endgame was so poorly made that the game failed.
Rift - cool concept game that was absolutely ruined with pay to win monitization.
Guildwars 2 - The cool mounts and open world are great so much to explore love the discovery and map completionist content. PVP is pointless. Storyline quest chains are fun.
SWTOR- was a great game till they added free to play and the poorly implemented monitization model during that time made me just log out and never return.
Vanguard - played many many hours till my world first guild engaged the world boss dragon and broke the game. RIP
SWG - Will never forgive John Smedley or SOE for shutting down SWG
Runes of magic F RNG systems and p2w bs
Black desert Online Screw you Pearl abyss and your p2w game MMO Cancer at its finest.
Embers adrift - seems fun but hardly anyone plays it. kinda sad
Monsters and memories _ wanna try it but not sure my aging brain can handle not having a map and having to find stuff in a populated world again (resurrected EQ imho) love the nostalgia vibes.
Pantheon Rise of the fallen - still in beta can be fun but seems to be a very tribal game. Met quite a few min/maxer mentality people while playing.. I want to play a game to have fun. If its a job with unnecessary grinding to just play the game I'm out. They need to balance needful progression with **** busywork. Alchemy is ridiculously complex is just one example of what im talking about here.
Again like a previous poster I just wanna be able to play a decent game before my body gives out.
I will never forgive NCSoft for what they did to L2
Good News for You probably, James.
I remembered your Comment here when i saw this Video. Apparently Lineage Two Players have a good Number of Reasons why they will love Ashes of Creation.
World of Warcraft. I quit playing because it became a job. Daily quests are a blight upon the industry, I want to log in and decide what I want to do, not log in and do my dailies every day before I can decide what I want to do. My playtime is not infinite, and it just sucks up time that I don't want to spend on it...but if I don't, I fall behind in either in-game financial, rep, or gear ways. I want to play a game, not play a job.
5
scottstone7Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
My online rpg gaming started with MUDs, I left those when I found EverQuest. EverQuest was my first graphical MMOrpg and the early years of EQ are still the standard I look to when deciding to keep playing a new MMOrpg or not. I started playing EQ in 1999, I finally stopped playing in 2008. Truth be told, I lost most interest in it after the expansion Planes of Power was released in 2002, by the release of Prophecy of Ro in 2006 I was pretty much completely over it, but I stuck around for the friends I had made and continued to make within the guilds.
Planes of Power was when Sony really started to put the training wheels on the game, and it only got progressively worse with each additional expansion after that. I stopped playing EQ because Sony kept insisting on adding more and more training wheels to the game.
I never got into WoW or EQ2 because from my limited trial experience those are basically training wheels with pretty pictures taped on. I did try quite a few others over the years, could never really stick with any of them though. Truth be told I’ve never really found any game that held my interest like EQ did, if I had to pick one game that did or at least came close I would say it would have been Ark Survival Evolved pre Scorched Earth expansion.
Why did I leave other MMO’s after EQ?
Because they could not compare to early EQ. Basically, they all have training wheels on to some various degree. Most players now a days have come to expect to have access to those training wheels. Some players will say it’s progress or that it helps streamline the game to make it more fun. All I can say to that is, don’t bother trying to convince me with your excuses. I have personally experienced how great and fun it was before those things. Nothing you can or will say will ever convince me that training wheels make games better. I know I'm in the minority on thinking this, get over me not agreeing with you. I know I’ll most likely never be able to get away from most if not all of the training wheels again, but I have hopes that Ashes will still be fun.
For those too young to remember the old days, and what I mean by training wheels here are some of the more common examples.
Easy access to fast travel – Fast travel in general outside of a class specific perk or spell, that does not mean give every class a fast travel button. The world is large, the world is beautiful. Experience it, explore it, don’t skip it with fast travel.
Instanced dungeons or zones – I have never seen these done in any sort of way that could be considered competent. I do however like what I’m seeing so far about the plans for these in Ashes.
Instant player trade over any distance – this includes in game mail if it’s a thing if you can send items AND it does not require to go to a mailbox or some such specific location to collect and send.
Mini Maps – Personally I feel any map is a training wheel, but some games have of done a decent job with world only maps. I do agree that Ashes will need a good world map with updated information displayed on it.
Anything Finders – outside of a class specific skill or ability like a ranger track ability. If it’s a class ability it’s a perk of the class otherwise if something is leading you by the nose to whatever you are looking for it’s a training wheel.
In game guides – as in telling you your level X go hunt here or go gather over there
Hired Minions – class specific pets like necromancers have are fine as they are perks of the class, cosmetic pets that do nothing are fine, the training wheels are on when that hired minion starts healing you or killing for you.
Guild Wars (not really an mmo, but still) - Because it was no longer supported, and honestly couldn't really expand any more due to it's particular skill system, as it was becoming bloated at an expediential rate.
Guild Wars 2 - Because the game is fundamentally shallow and lacked any real depth or long term progression. The lack of a trinity made combat turn into meaningless slap fights. Everything just kind of blurs together after awhile.
FF14 - Haven't really quit it, so much as I go on long extended pauses. Only really play in short bursts to catch up on the story. Besides story and dungeons, not a lot to do to keep me interested.
I will never forgive NCSoft for what they did to L2
Good News for You probably, James.
I remembered your Comment here when i saw this Video. Apparently Lineage Two Players have a good Number of Reasons why they will love Ashes of Creation.
Yeah for sure xD Lineage 2 influence in Ashes is pretty blunt. Not only having Lineage 2 inspirations but also having Archeage Inspirations which is also a game that took inspirations from Lineage 2.
Lineage 2 players will mostly few at home in Ashes.
Anti-roleplay elements: Over time, mechanics such as trinkets that affect other characters' actions or the introduction of server sharding broke immersion for roleplayers. Good example: The original, non-sharded servers where players consistently ran into familiar faces, allowing for organic, ongoing roleplay. Bad example: Sharding that splits up players across different instances of the same zone, making it impossible to find or roleplay with others consistently.
The story became less grounded: The narrative escalated from regional, political struggles to cosmic-level threats, which felt disconnected from the world’s original, more relatable conflicts. Good example: Early expansions like Wrath of the Lich King, where the focus was on a single, deeply personal threat (Arthas) who had ties to major lore characters. Bad example: Later expansions like Shadowlands, where the story moves into a metaphysical realm and deals with gods and cosmic entities, which feel abstract and distant.
Gearmill and endless grind: Multiple dungeon difficulties, including Mythic+ with endless scaling, turned the game into a constant gear grind. Good example: The original raid system, where there was one difficulty level and gear progression was tied to completing content at your own pace. Bad example: Mythic+ dungeons, where players must run the same content over and over at increasing difficulty levels to keep up with gear progression.
Titanforging: Titanforging introduced random gear upgrades, making progression feel like a lottery rather than a steady, earned process. Good example: In earlier expansions, you knew what gear would drop from a boss, and progression was clear and predictable. Bad example: Titanforging, where your gear might or might not receive a random bonus upgrade, causing frustration for players who didn’t get the “lucky” drop.
Leveling has become an afterthought: Leveling used to be a core experience, but it’s now reduced to a chore you need to complete to get to the endgame. Good example: In Classic WoW, leveling was a slower, meaningful process, with quests that encouraged exploration and learning about the world. Bad example: Modern expansions where leveling is streamlined and fast-tracked, with little thought given to immersion or story along the way.
Invalidation of old content: Each expansion renders old content obsolete, discouraging players from revisiting past dungeons and zones. Good example: Guild Wars 2, where older content scales with the player’s level, keeping it relevant and challenging. Bad example: In WoW, once a new expansion launches, entire zones and raids from previous expansions are abandoned because the gear and challenges are no longer relevant.
Flying mounts trivialize world travel: Flying mounts allow players to bypass the challenges of the world, making it feel smaller and less dangerous. Good example: Zones in The Burning Crusade where flying was earned after a long journey and had specific zones designed around the need for flight. Bad example: Warlords of Draenor, where flying was initially locked and then eventually unlocked, allowing players to skip all content and challenges below them, making the world feel trivial.
Class homogenization: Classes have lost their unique identities as abilities and roles have become more similar. Good example: In Vanilla WoW, classes had distinct roles—paladins were strong at healing, warriors were the go-to tanks, and each class had its niche. Bad example: In modern expansions, most classes have access to similar abilities (e.g., AoE attacks and self-healing), making them feel less unique.
No more mana management: Mana management used to be an important aspect of gameplay for certain classes, adding a layer of strategy. Good example: In Classic WoW, healers and casters had to carefully manage their mana in long fights, making decisions about when to use expensive spells. Bad example: In modern WoW, mana regeneration and resource management are trivialized, with few situations requiring careful planning.
Overabundance of AoE attacks: Every class having access to AoE abilities reduces the importance of tactical play. Good example: In Burning Crusade, AoE abilities were rare and powerful, used in specific situations and requiring careful positioning. Bad example: In modern WoW, almost every class has AoE abilities as part of their main rotation, making crowd control and positioning less relevant.
Stat inflation: Over time, the numbers for health, damage, and stats have grown excessively large, making progression feel bloated. Good example: Earlier expansions, where stats were smaller and each piece of gear’s impact was clear and meaningful. Bad example: In modern expansions, where numbers like DPS and health values have become astronomical, making them feel abstract and disconnected from player experience.
Removal of weaknesses and resistances: The removal of elemental resistances simplified gameplay, reducing customization and strategic depth. Good example: In Classic WoW, resistances played a big role in certain fights, like gearing for fire resistance in Molten Core. Bad example: Modern expansions where resistances have been almost entirely removed, reducing the need for specialized gear or preparation for specific encounters.
On-rails gameplay: The game feels more structured and linear, guiding players along a set path rather than encouraging exploration. Good example: Earlier expansions where players could wander the world freely and stumble upon hidden quests or secret areas. Bad example: Modern expansions where quest markers and linear story progression guide players from one objective to the next, removing the sense of discovery.
Lack of player housing: Despite the game’s deep world-building, the lack of player housing limits personalization and expression. Good example: Final Fantasy XIV and The Elder Scrolls Online, where players can build and customize their own homes, adding personal touches to the game world. Bad example: The lack of player housing in WoW leaves players with little opportunity to make their mark or personalize their experience.
Lack of fun, random items: The game used to have more quirky, random items that brought unexpected joy to gameplay. Good example: Items like the Dead Branch in Ragnarok Online, which would summon random monsters, adding unpredictability to the game. Bad example: Modern WoW, where most items are optimized for stats, with little room for items that have fun or strange effects.
Cookie-cutter design: Gear and builds have become more standardized, leaving less room for creativity and experimentation. Good example: In earlier expansions, players could experiment with unusual builds, like hybrid melee/caster setups. Bad example: Modern expansions push players toward optimized, meta builds, reducing the freedom to try unconventional gear combinations or playstyles.
Lack of meaningful social interaction: The ease of finding groups through automated tools has reduced the need for meaningful social interactions. Good example: In early expansions, finding groups for dungeons required communication and teamwork, often leading to lasting friendships. Bad example: Automated group finders in modern games, where players can run entire dungeons without saying a single word to their group.
Overemphasis on endgame content: The focus on endgame raiding and dungeons has sidelined other aspects of the game, like exploration or crafting. Good example: Games like RuneScape, where crafting, exploration, and social activities are just as important as combat. Bad example: Modern WoW, where most content outside of dungeons and raids feels secondary or irrelevant once a player reaches max level.
Predictable, formulaic content updates: Expansions and patches follow a predictable formula, reducing the excitement of new releases. Good example: Games that introduce new and unexpected mechanics or challenges with each expansion, like Guild Wars 2’s living world updates. Bad example: WoW expansions that consistently follow the pattern of adding new zones, dungeons, and raids without truly innovative content.
Instant gratification mentality: Modern game systems often prioritize quick, easy rewards over long-term challenges. Good example: Games that reward players with rare, prestigious items for completing difficult, time-consuming content. Bad example: Modern systems where players can obtain powerful gear through daily or weekly chores, removing the sense of accomplishment from earning rewards.
Loss of risk and reward dynamics: The reduction of penalties for failure has diminished the tension and stakes of gameplay. Good example: Earlier MMOs where death meant losing experience, or even dropping valuable items, adding real risk to gameplay. Bad example: Modern WoW, where death has little consequence, and players are simply sent back to the nearest graveyard with no real loss.
Streamlined professions and crafting: Crafting systems have been simplified, removing much of the depth and meaning from professions. Good example: In earlier expansions, crafting could create powerful and unique gear, with a player-driven economy. Bad example: Modern expansions where crafted gear is often inferior to dungeon or raid drops, and professions feel like an afterthought.
Loss of exploration: The game has lost much of its sense of discovery and exploration, as everything is marked on the map. Good example: Games like Breath of the Wild, where exploration is rewarded and players are encouraged to roam freely. Bad example: Modern MMOs where quests are laid out in a linear fashion, with markers showing exactly where to go, removing the need to explore on your own.
Overemphasis on min-maxing: The focus on optimizing character builds has reduced creativity in how players approach the game. Good example: Games that allow for a wide range of viable builds and playstyles, encouraging experimentation. Bad example: Modern WoW, where the community heavily pushes optimized builds and players are discouraged from trying unconventional setups.
Repetitive dailies and chores: Daily quests and tasks have become repetitive, turning gameplay into a routine rather than an adventure. Good example: Games that mix up daily tasks with random, dynamic events or challenges to keep the experience fresh. Bad example: Games that rely heavily on repetitive daily quests that offer little variety, causing burnout among players.
Less focus on role-playing and immersion: As the game has prioritized mechanics and efficiency, role-playing and immersion have taken a back seat. Good example: Roleplaying-focused servers and systems that encourage deep immersion, like those in The Elder Scrolls Online. Bad example: Modern WoW, where the focus on min-maxing and meta progression overshadows the narrative and immersive aspects of the game.
PvP becoming secondary: PvP content has been sidelined, with overly balanced systems reducing the excitement and stakes of player combat. Good example: Open-world PvP in earlier expansions, where players fought for control of zones and had real consequences for winning or losing. Bad example: Modern PvP, where arenas and battlegrounds feel like isolated, over-balanced minigames with little impact on the world at large.
I started playing Wow at the tail end of bfa and played shadowlands until I got to raiding and found out I had to get a bunch of ad-ons to play without people nagging me about it.
instantly killed my interest in the game. if a game can't be bothered supply the tools needed to play itself then it's not worthy of my time and effort.
it's also not fun to have most of my screen taken up by ad-on windows and tabs instead of just watching the fight and the mechanics.
Comments
A: L2 > The server numbers got lower overall, there were only the long term players, it was too much of a climb and duration for new players to catchup to enjoy time with the veteran players.. and players started to try out new games..
B: ESO > Became a grind and more an individual game without so much purpose
C: Conan > Lack of players
E: New World > Still play, but feels like a solo game with pug group play.. not much need, want or benefit from being in a guild or community
In theory, the nodes (hubs) should create bustling social spaces and activities, reducing the risk of servers feeling deserted as populations fluctuate as these will be a scaling number of centralizing activity points.
Hope that when a server gets lower, that with less overall nodes but the ones remaining still populus.
Moreover, the game's adaptive scaling mechanism appears to ensure that regardless of server size, players can always find areas that match their preferred level of activity and engagement. This dynamic approach mimics real-world population dynamics, allowing players to experience everything from bustling metropolises to serene countryside retreats and everywhere in-between within the game world.
I see this also hopefully working for those that are pvp centric and those pvp adverse. Distant nodes likely different in personality.
By prioritizing community building and adaptability, Ashes of Creation hopefully provides a more sustainable and engaging MMO experience than what is on the market at the moment, that evolves alongside its player base, evolving a world that always feels alive and full of opportunities.
Should that be so, then:
Endgame issues. Mainly a situation where I am a part of a guild. I help the guild level and get gear, then when the guild reaches around the second or third to top tier in endgame, I am cut off and told to take a hike so they can bring their close friends that have not be doing the heavy lifting.
The one thing I like about the achievement system is I can show my experience and that I have walked the walk, no matter how many former guildies bad mouth me.
Runescape - I did many of the quests, reached high-ish skill levels. I quit as it felt like my time wasn't respected, and the best way to progress was pay to win. The time to progress balance was great a low levels, and diminished at higher.
New World - I quit at lvl 59, when majority of the Territories at high level were owned by other factions. They purposely didn't put missions up to replenish their Town Board. There were no alternate quests, and grinding was the only options. It immediate sucked the fun out of it for me, I logged out and never returned.
Retail WOW - I'm on a break at the moment, but largely the hamster wheel grinding of M+ and Raiding has now gotten old. New content, new item levels, near gearing, all to be wiped for a rinse repeat. It's fun when new, but gets old quickly. Also I enjoy open world content, which is generally limited to more so Rep grinds.
ESO/Guild Wars - Hit max level/did the story, found it a bit hard to get into group content. This one's more so on me, but as a newbie to these games, the systems were a little overwhelming. I'll revisit at some stage.
Final Fantasy - the MSQ felt like a chore, with mainly dialogue quests and limited combat. It was a nice distraction for a while.
Well aware of that, Noaani.
It is just - > after like +Ten Years of watching different Video Game Companies do all the same -> meaning changing the Game and/or the Terms of Service, or Rules, or whatever you would call it,
to the Extent that People can call it " under false pretenses " - > resulting in most of the Gamerbase leaving and then the Game dies an ugly, slow Death,
it is just that this gets SOOOO. OOOLLLD. and tedious to watch. I am so goddamn tired to see the same shit repeating itself over and over again.
And while it is not all Video Games but just a handful of them which actually did that,
( including Planetside II ),
it gets REALLY OLD real fast, if this happens to One or several Videogames you actually enjoyed playing a lot. When you actually get your Fun ruined for good, only because a few Developers can't get the Greed-Stick out of their Asses,
it hurts a lot. And that Trust is never coming back. You are usually done then with the Company for good. I advise Everyone involved to keep a healthy Grudge as in never spending Money again to the Companies concerned.
I mean - > sure, if People WANT to get taken the piss on and getting exploited for their Money and swindled into buying a Product that is in the End completely different than what they paid for,
then People can do that. Everyone is free to get scammed willingly. (lol)
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Keep in mind - the game you are primarily complaining about has now been live for 10 years, and has an anual revenue of eight million dollars from 200k monthly users (as of 2020).
The game did not die that ugly, slow death you are talking about.
All the changes that you are complaining about did was make you not play it, many others still do.
Sure, you are tired of it happening - but that is literally the nature of online games; they change over time. You complain that they change, others complain that they do not.
At the end of the day, it is the function of the company that makes/publishes the games in question to make money. If a change to the game is what they think will make the most money, then that is what will happen.
You started your post off by saying you understand, and yet here are illustrating that you do not understand.
As far as I am concerned, you are more than welcome to be angry, sad, upset, pissed off - what ever - about the things you are talking about, even if the games you are talking about never had that death you claim.
However, if you are going to have any of the above emotions, be sure and know whose fault they are. They are not the fault of game developers - many of them are doing what is required of them to keep their job, and may hate the changes even more than you do. It is not the fault of their bosses either - they are in the same situation.
It is also not the fault of the CEO of the company, they have that legal obligation to make as much money as they can.
The fault lies in shareholders. Blame them when you rant about it, not developers.
Also, people aren't getting scammed - at least not by the companies in question. If you go in to any service assuming it will be the same forever, an argument could be made that you are scamming yourself. It is a part of the agreement of every online game I have played that the gameplay experience may change - so the developers changing the gameplay experience is not them scamming you.
Again, keep that in mind with your next rant about this - them doing something they said they may do is not them scamming you.
" Yet ".
The Game i mean (Planetside II) has not died "yet". It is however barely more than a Corpse, when the Servers are so empty that the Games' System doesn't even unlock the full Continent/s on which the Players are on.
Is getting scammed also "just the Nature of online games" ?
Because i know not all VideoGame Developers change their Game into a different Product after Release and after cashing in nice Customer-Purchases.
Even if it means losing Trust of Customers forever which they threw under the Bus, huh ? I mean, okay. You are right. I am not even trying to argue against this. People can do with their Games they developed whatever they want.
Just hoping over here that VideoGamers will not forget it, when being taken the piss on like nothing else. For Example, apparently "Helldivers II" has done something very similar - just in another way.
Could be that "PC"-Gamer will remember this Company which made the Game. And not in a good way.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Good News then ... ...
... ... apparently People " CAN " make shitty Companies - for Example Ubisoft - pay, for - well - being shitty.
And be it even an just a tiny Iota in this Sea and Ocean of Retaliations and Punishments that the paying Customer Base can hand out against whole Companies.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
The main aspect that kept me playing for so many years beyond the spells is the customization and they implemented a True Resurrection mechanic. Essentially, once you reach max level you could go back to level 1 and keep a small piece of power form each class, race, iconic, or epic destiny. You could do each one 3 times.
In most MMOs PVP is unplayable, because you get steamrolled by whales, high schoolers and unemployed people.
This is why I played GW2 for the longest period of time. Even with orange armor and 1 set of legendary weapons I could beat people decked up with legendaries, using only skill and a good build.
The basic gear in structured arena PVP is also a pretty awesome approach to solve this problem.
SWG: I ran out of things that I wanted to do and wasn't willing to put the effort into force sensitive or jedi.
WoW: Played from essentially the BWL patch until the content drought at the end of Wrath. I did come back for Cata, but it was too different and many friends started playing Rift and Aeon and I don't remember what else.
SWTOR: Launch player. Endgame was lacking and the non-open world and single player feel to leveling was terrible for me. I did not play long at all. If there's any game on this list I wished I'd played more it's probably this one. But when I quit, I had nothing to do besides pvp grind.
GW2: Combat was too simple and endgame pve was too easy and grindy feeling. I found the pvp less engaging than WoW or SWTOR, which is funny because it was considered the game for pvpers back then.
Wildstar: Launch player. Ummm...yeah. The world at launch really had that WoW feel to it, but nothing was good at endgame. The idea behind the crafting system was good, but the stat system made it suck. I had rolled a Warrior to tank, and it was incapable of tanking raids. A lifetime of jumping puzzles wasn't my.thing either. I decided the game wasn't for me before it even fell off.
TESO: I started playing real late into the game, like a tear or more. Cyrodiil eventually got boring. The PVE wasn't good enough to hold my attention. The combat never sat well with me. It felt better than New World for sure, but the animation canceling felt like more of a gimmick than how combat should be.
New World: I made it to level 42 and the swamp zone. The combat is just really bad and it took me that long to figure out that it never gets better.
WoW - played off/on left when it became more of a job to log in rather than fun. Gave up on PvP once they started taking rewards away just because I had to take time off. Also got annoyed with PvP due to lack of consequences for attacking just to be annoying and interrupting other's game play.
Misc others, most came down to either, content locked behind achievements not worth the time (Too reliant on RNG and camping) or started relying too much on gambling (purchased loot boxes) to attain upgrades. Also, being in groups that speed run content when I much prefer exploring and figuring out alternate ways to accomplish goals.
I don't mind grinding to an extent nor long time investments as long as progress isn't impossible. Best experiences I had was taking 3+ hours to cross from Kunark to Qeynos and on to Odus for monk quests using unreliable feign death skills to avoid death. It's often quite fun to discover new and innovative ways to die.
You totally won the Internet or at least this Forum for a Day with your Comment. I felt so much Truth in it. Take my Life. Also nice Warhammer40K-like Name.
I must admit,
in for Example Worst of Warcraft,
you had to be - and STILL have to be -> an absolute "No-Lifer" regarding your Reallife, if you want to actually stand a real Chance against most People in PvP.
And even then, sometimes a Pre-Made Group usually massacres your own Raid mostly made out of Casuals and the whole Match is a lost cause from Second One.
I like it when Preparation, Knowledge and Investment into your Character can give you an actually nice Chance even if are still somewhat noticeably weaker.
It gives a Person the Feeling that you don't waste your time in a completely fruitless Effort when doing for Example PvP.
And that You don't have to play +5 to +8 Hours Everyday. Because Reallife is a bi~aaaaXxX sometimes and will never allow anyone to invest so much time into your beloved MMO Character.
I miss the Time when MMO's were always fun for awhile. And without the constant Need for new Expansions and Contents all the time. When the whole Game was satisfying.
I know that the World of constant Change - the World of Verra - will be able to rekindle this Feeling. You will always have something to do - but you don't need to force yourself.
However you will need to invest "somewhat" time if you want to get your Node and Guild/s somewhere.
Damn i am aware i kinda hijacked the Point of this Topic.
Again.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
It was supposed to be 1 character per realm, but they couldn't/wouldn't really enforce it. The best they could do is ban IPs from VPN servers and try to monitor. Eventually they gave up and stopped banning people.
I hated controlling a bunch of characters at once, I'd rather just pay attention to one. A lot of people followed the rules with a kind of honor system, but of course people would cheat and you would get owned by dupes in town recording your movements, multiboxers 1 shot backstabbing with 4 thieves.
Eventually I just got tired of constantly being outmatched and i didn't want to do what it takes to win.
Fail game, but PVP was a rush for sure.
Quit for WoW since it was more polished/combat was smoother was also where i devoped my taste for PvP
WoW
Quit WoW when they removed the MMO feeling (added way to many conviences/chores) and became more single player lobby experience with daily quests chores (Some time during WoLK) PvE became braid dead easy too with add ons
Played league and killed time in that until 2009 when darkfall came out in 2009
-Played darkfall for 2 years until devs kinda failed that game with poor decission and slow development time
played FF14 after that for about 9 months, quit due to lack of PvP and PvE was easy at the time (might be harder now not sure)
Twiddled my thumbs in league and other minor titles till 2013 where i played darkfall unholy wars for a year or so before same issues as darkfall had
Pretty much had nothing worth playing that was memorable up until crowfall early access (2019 i think) which was fun played however devs made poor decisions (listen only to the big zerg guild) and than they release the game to early no whgere near completed due to lack of fund and that game died shortly afterwards
which i moved to new world which was kinda terrible game however was the only game realy that offered some kinda of pvp however quit that due to lack of open world pvp
and since then been twiddling my thumbs waiting for something else
SWTOR's "Hero" game-engine seems as though it makes a long and difficult process for new content to be created/added. Also, it was too "WoW" in that a large part of the game was repeating content you already did. It was also too alt-reliant, and the end-game of SWTOR just seemed like it was to collect all the cash-shop items via directly buying or trading for them, then using IRL money so you could summon them to your many, many alts.
I *LOVED* Star Wars: Galaxies, but they shut it down. I was there at the lights-out party. Thankfully, the SWG: Legends emulator came up in 2016, and I've mostly been there, since. No p2w, no cash shop, and new content from all-volunteer devs.
It's more like a better version of the game, than what/how the live-version ended!
Time limits on pvp content most stupid thing I've ever seen in mmoprg. Even more stupid than lootboxes
Since WoW was my only MMO which I ever played seriously, this is the only aspect in most of these posts which I can relate and react to.
To say the expectation subverting thing... I actually like a player lobby experience.
That is if people define this with this "living & breathing world" in which you see many players run around and do things beside your own character.
Having to play with others is a good thing but only by choice. And in that sense WoW did everything right.
No I think what truly killed WoW for many people is that grinds have always gotten more & more numerous in general and their lenght never truly shrinks, no matter how many DECADES long they exist.
And this in itself feels condescending I think.
Some of the contents in WoW had to shrink inevitably cause it became too blatantly obvious that the starting point got tinier & tinier in the distance, for those who grinded regularly.
And then a new player can see the Mt.Everest in front of them and then 6 more Mt.Everets stacked on top of that thing cause... why not?
Intimidating, demotivating.
Followed up by...
... yeaaaaaah, the absolute worst sin in any MMO. TIMELIMITED things.
Ultimately these result in mostly toxic and negative feelings.
Cause the amount of people missing out will always grow in contrast to those who haven't missed out.
All just for the ego a few water drops of players who might as well be invisible, a meager chosen few, who can never stand out in the vast sea of players which they are a part of.
With the occassional few people ever so often realizing that they have missed out on stuff cuz it was timelimited and then they fall into eternal frustration because of it.
Frustration that is maybe the goal (?) and gleefully observed with spite (?) by those who haven't missed out?
People can claim this is not the case.
But I know my gamer-kind.
Many are not motivated by positive behaviour and feelings.
Everquest- I will never forgive soe for deleting my characters while i was on deployment serving in the US Navy. That made me quit for over 2 years. I came back and quit again and stayed gone.
Everquest 2 was my home for almost 4 years i quit the game when it went free to play and I had to subscribe to use or wear my hard earned raid gear. again F u smedley you corporate sycophant.
LOTRO- My account got hacked and i was never able to recover it. Made me switch from yahoo to gmail for my game accounts due to that security issue.
AOC - just a garbage game never played retail i was turned off during beta.
WoW - never played retail wow still havent have only played private servers.
Wildstar - was wildly fun to play leveling up too bad the endgame was so poorly made that the game failed.
Rift - cool concept game that was absolutely ruined with pay to win monitization.
Guildwars 2 - The cool mounts and open world are great so much to explore love the discovery and map completionist content. PVP is pointless. Storyline quest chains are fun.
SWTOR- was a great game till they added free to play and the poorly implemented monitization model during that time made me just log out and never return.
Vanguard - played many many hours till my world first guild engaged the world boss dragon and broke the game. RIP
SWG - Will never forgive John Smedley or SOE for shutting down SWG
Runes of magic F RNG systems and p2w bs
Black desert Online Screw you Pearl abyss and your p2w game MMO Cancer at its finest.
Embers adrift - seems fun but hardly anyone plays it. kinda sad
Monsters and memories _ wanna try it but not sure my aging brain can handle not having a map and having to find stuff in a populated world again (resurrected EQ imho) love the nostalgia vibes.
Pantheon Rise of the fallen - still in beta can be fun but seems to be a very tribal game. Met quite a few min/maxer mentality people while playing.. I want to play a game to have fun. If its a job with unnecessary grinding to just play the game I'm out. They need to balance needful progression with **** busywork. Alchemy is ridiculously complex is just one example of what im talking about here.
Again like a previous poster I just wanna be able to play a decent game before my body gives out.
Cheers,
Calicobard
Good News for You probably, James.
I remembered your Comment here when i saw this Video. Apparently Lineage Two Players have a good Number of Reasons why they will love Ashes of Creation.
May the Copium-Gods bless us once more.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
From Beta to Close!
Ride or die!
Planes of Power was when Sony really started to put the training wheels on the game, and it only got progressively worse with each additional expansion after that. I stopped playing EQ because Sony kept insisting on adding more and more training wheels to the game.
I never got into WoW or EQ2 because from my limited trial experience those are basically training wheels with pretty pictures taped on. I did try quite a few others over the years, could never really stick with any of them though. Truth be told I’ve never really found any game that held my interest like EQ did, if I had to pick one game that did or at least came close I would say it would have been Ark Survival Evolved pre Scorched Earth expansion.
Why did I leave other MMO’s after EQ?
Because they could not compare to early EQ. Basically, they all have training wheels on to some various degree. Most players now a days have come to expect to have access to those training wheels. Some players will say it’s progress or that it helps streamline the game to make it more fun. All I can say to that is, don’t bother trying to convince me with your excuses. I have personally experienced how great and fun it was before those things. Nothing you can or will say will ever convince me that training wheels make games better. I know I'm in the minority on thinking this, get over me not agreeing with you. I know I’ll most likely never be able to get away from most if not all of the training wheels again, but I have hopes that Ashes will still be fun.
For those too young to remember the old days, and what I mean by training wheels here are some of the more common examples.
Easy access to fast travel – Fast travel in general outside of a class specific perk or spell, that does not mean give every class a fast travel button. The world is large, the world is beautiful. Experience it, explore it, don’t skip it with fast travel.
Instanced dungeons or zones – I have never seen these done in any sort of way that could be considered competent. I do however like what I’m seeing so far about the plans for these in Ashes.
Instant player trade over any distance – this includes in game mail if it’s a thing if you can send items AND it does not require to go to a mailbox or some such specific location to collect and send.
Mini Maps – Personally I feel any map is a training wheel, but some games have of done a decent job with world only maps. I do agree that Ashes will need a good world map with updated information displayed on it.
Anything Finders – outside of a class specific skill or ability like a ranger track ability. If it’s a class ability it’s a perk of the class otherwise if something is leading you by the nose to whatever you are looking for it’s a training wheel.
In game guides – as in telling you your level X go hunt here or go gather over there
Hired Minions – class specific pets like necromancers have are fine as they are perks of the class, cosmetic pets that do nothing are fine, the training wheels are on when that hired minion starts healing you or killing for you.
Ya I would still be playing DAoC if they upgraded the engine too!
Guild Wars 2 - Because the game is fundamentally shallow and lacked any real depth or long term progression. The lack of a trinity made combat turn into meaningless slap fights. Everything just kind of blurs together after awhile.
FF14 - Haven't really quit it, so much as I go on long extended pauses. Only really play in short bursts to catch up on the story. Besides story and dungeons, not a lot to do to keep me interested.
Yeah for sure xD Lineage 2 influence in Ashes is pretty blunt. Not only having Lineage 2 inspirations but also having Archeage Inspirations which is also a game that took inspirations from Lineage 2.
Lineage 2 players will mostly few at home in Ashes.
Aren't we all sinners?
The story became less grounded: The narrative escalated from regional, political struggles to cosmic-level threats, which felt disconnected from the world’s original, more relatable conflicts. Good example: Early expansions like Wrath of the Lich King, where the focus was on a single, deeply personal threat (Arthas) who had ties to major lore characters. Bad example: Later expansions like Shadowlands, where the story moves into a metaphysical realm and deals with gods and cosmic entities, which feel abstract and distant.
Gearmill and endless grind: Multiple dungeon difficulties, including Mythic+ with endless scaling, turned the game into a constant gear grind. Good example: The original raid system, where there was one difficulty level and gear progression was tied to completing content at your own pace. Bad example: Mythic+ dungeons, where players must run the same content over and over at increasing difficulty levels to keep up with gear progression.
Titanforging: Titanforging introduced random gear upgrades, making progression feel like a lottery rather than a steady, earned process. Good example: In earlier expansions, you knew what gear would drop from a boss, and progression was clear and predictable. Bad example: Titanforging, where your gear might or might not receive a random bonus upgrade, causing frustration for players who didn’t get the “lucky” drop.
Leveling has become an afterthought: Leveling used to be a core experience, but it’s now reduced to a chore you need to complete to get to the endgame. Good example: In Classic WoW, leveling was a slower, meaningful process, with quests that encouraged exploration and learning about the world. Bad example: Modern expansions where leveling is streamlined and fast-tracked, with little thought given to immersion or story along the way.
Invalidation of old content: Each expansion renders old content obsolete, discouraging players from revisiting past dungeons and zones. Good example: Guild Wars 2, where older content scales with the player’s level, keeping it relevant and challenging. Bad example: In WoW, once a new expansion launches, entire zones and raids from previous expansions are abandoned because the gear and challenges are no longer relevant.
Flying mounts trivialize world travel: Flying mounts allow players to bypass the challenges of the world, making it feel smaller and less dangerous. Good example: Zones in The Burning Crusade where flying was earned after a long journey and had specific zones designed around the need for flight. Bad example: Warlords of Draenor, where flying was initially locked and then eventually unlocked, allowing players to skip all content and challenges below them, making the world feel trivial.
Class homogenization: Classes have lost their unique identities as abilities and roles have become more similar. Good example: In Vanilla WoW, classes had distinct roles—paladins were strong at healing, warriors were the go-to tanks, and each class had its niche. Bad example: In modern expansions, most classes have access to similar abilities (e.g., AoE attacks and self-healing), making them feel less unique.
No more mana management: Mana management used to be an important aspect of gameplay for certain classes, adding a layer of strategy. Good example: In Classic WoW, healers and casters had to carefully manage their mana in long fights, making decisions about when to use expensive spells. Bad example: In modern WoW, mana regeneration and resource management are trivialized, with few situations requiring careful planning.
Overabundance of AoE attacks: Every class having access to AoE abilities reduces the importance of tactical play. Good example: In Burning Crusade, AoE abilities were rare and powerful, used in specific situations and requiring careful positioning. Bad example: In modern WoW, almost every class has AoE abilities as part of their main rotation, making crowd control and positioning less relevant.
Stat inflation: Over time, the numbers for health, damage, and stats have grown excessively large, making progression feel bloated. Good example: Earlier expansions, where stats were smaller and each piece of gear’s impact was clear and meaningful. Bad example: In modern expansions, where numbers like DPS and health values have become astronomical, making them feel abstract and disconnected from player experience.
Removal of weaknesses and resistances: The removal of elemental resistances simplified gameplay, reducing customization and strategic depth. Good example: In Classic WoW, resistances played a big role in certain fights, like gearing for fire resistance in Molten Core. Bad example: Modern expansions where resistances have been almost entirely removed, reducing the need for specialized gear or preparation for specific encounters.
On-rails gameplay: The game feels more structured and linear, guiding players along a set path rather than encouraging exploration. Good example: Earlier expansions where players could wander the world freely and stumble upon hidden quests or secret areas. Bad example: Modern expansions where quest markers and linear story progression guide players from one objective to the next, removing the sense of discovery.
Lack of player housing: Despite the game’s deep world-building, the lack of player housing limits personalization and expression. Good example: Final Fantasy XIV and The Elder Scrolls Online, where players can build and customize their own homes, adding personal touches to the game world. Bad example: The lack of player housing in WoW leaves players with little opportunity to make their mark or personalize their experience.
Lack of fun, random items: The game used to have more quirky, random items that brought unexpected joy to gameplay. Good example: Items like the Dead Branch in Ragnarok Online, which would summon random monsters, adding unpredictability to the game. Bad example: Modern WoW, where most items are optimized for stats, with little room for items that have fun or strange effects.
Cookie-cutter design: Gear and builds have become more standardized, leaving less room for creativity and experimentation. Good example: In earlier expansions, players could experiment with unusual builds, like hybrid melee/caster setups. Bad example: Modern expansions push players toward optimized, meta builds, reducing the freedom to try unconventional gear combinations or playstyles.
Lack of meaningful social interaction: The ease of finding groups through automated tools has reduced the need for meaningful social interactions. Good example: In early expansions, finding groups for dungeons required communication and teamwork, often leading to lasting friendships. Bad example: Automated group finders in modern games, where players can run entire dungeons without saying a single word to their group.
Overemphasis on endgame content: The focus on endgame raiding and dungeons has sidelined other aspects of the game, like exploration or crafting. Good example: Games like RuneScape, where crafting, exploration, and social activities are just as important as combat. Bad example: Modern WoW, where most content outside of dungeons and raids feels secondary or irrelevant once a player reaches max level.
Predictable, formulaic content updates: Expansions and patches follow a predictable formula, reducing the excitement of new releases. Good example: Games that introduce new and unexpected mechanics or challenges with each expansion, like Guild Wars 2’s living world updates. Bad example: WoW expansions that consistently follow the pattern of adding new zones, dungeons, and raids without truly innovative content.
Instant gratification mentality: Modern game systems often prioritize quick, easy rewards over long-term challenges. Good example: Games that reward players with rare, prestigious items for completing difficult, time-consuming content. Bad example: Modern systems where players can obtain powerful gear through daily or weekly chores, removing the sense of accomplishment from earning rewards.
Loss of risk and reward dynamics: The reduction of penalties for failure has diminished the tension and stakes of gameplay. Good example: Earlier MMOs where death meant losing experience, or even dropping valuable items, adding real risk to gameplay. Bad example: Modern WoW, where death has little consequence, and players are simply sent back to the nearest graveyard with no real loss.
Streamlined professions and crafting: Crafting systems have been simplified, removing much of the depth and meaning from professions. Good example: In earlier expansions, crafting could create powerful and unique gear, with a player-driven economy. Bad example: Modern expansions where crafted gear is often inferior to dungeon or raid drops, and professions feel like an afterthought.
Loss of exploration: The game has lost much of its sense of discovery and exploration, as everything is marked on the map. Good example: Games like Breath of the Wild, where exploration is rewarded and players are encouraged to roam freely. Bad example: Modern MMOs where quests are laid out in a linear fashion, with markers showing exactly where to go, removing the need to explore on your own.
Overemphasis on min-maxing: The focus on optimizing character builds has reduced creativity in how players approach the game. Good example: Games that allow for a wide range of viable builds and playstyles, encouraging experimentation. Bad example: Modern WoW, where the community heavily pushes optimized builds and players are discouraged from trying unconventional setups.
Repetitive dailies and chores: Daily quests and tasks have become repetitive, turning gameplay into a routine rather than an adventure. Good example: Games that mix up daily tasks with random, dynamic events or challenges to keep the experience fresh. Bad example: Games that rely heavily on repetitive daily quests that offer little variety, causing burnout among players.
Less focus on role-playing and immersion: As the game has prioritized mechanics and efficiency, role-playing and immersion have taken a back seat. Good example: Roleplaying-focused servers and systems that encourage deep immersion, like those in The Elder Scrolls Online. Bad example: Modern WoW, where the focus on min-maxing and meta progression overshadows the narrative and immersive aspects of the game.
PvP becoming secondary: PvP content has been sidelined, with overly balanced systems reducing the excitement and stakes of player combat. Good example: Open-world PvP in earlier expansions, where players fought for control of zones and had real consequences for winning or losing. Bad example: Modern PvP, where arenas and battlegrounds feel like isolated, over-balanced minigames with little impact on the world at large.
instantly killed my interest in the game. if a game can't be bothered supply the tools needed to play itself then it's not worthy of my time and effort.
it's also not fun to have most of my screen taken up by ad-on windows and tabs instead of just watching the fight and the mechanics.