World boss and greater loot drop idea/discussion

Credit to [Amnesty] Chialde for putting this idea up in discord.
"When a raid defeats a Raid or world boss, they collect the boss loot. Afterwards their gatherers are able to extract resources from both the boss itself (Chopping the boss into pieces) and materials found across the boss arena (These only spawn once the boss has been defeated) . The resources gathered from the bosses remains are too large for players to transport back to town via their inventory. however they can be placed into large crates, making a guild wishing to fully benefit from the boss bring a caravan for material transportation. Once back at town players can use refining station to extract additional resources from the boss (if the boss was red dragon players could extract extra scales/meat/alchemy agent etc), these are not unique materials, they are the same materials the boss dropped, just in larger quantity.

Once a boss has been defeated they drop a trophy (head/claw/eyeball) This trophy has a rapid decay timer (3-5 mins). unless it is placed on a caravan this caravan drastically increases the duration that a trophy lasts (Caravan quality dictates trophy duration). Players can then escort this caravan back into town, where it can be placed upon a trophy pole granting all players within the node a unique boss buff for a duration, and citizens of the node receive an additional buff called Town pride (increase to health/mana/exp but only while within nodes region). If the boss that is defeated is a world boss then the buff applies to all players within the nodes zone of influence (as well as the Town pride buff). "

The primary idea being that as we saw with Firebrand for example - dropping full items or dropping just mats is a pretty tame way to include the crafters in the process.

This gives gatherers quite a significant level of integration in a raid even if they are not part of the raid itself while not being particularly crazy in the scope creep department.

This would effectively change a raid from focusing on just killing the boss and collecting its drops and crafting-> to killing the boss, gathering its and nearby mats, transporting via caravan then processing them and finally crafting them. The system sounds very immersive while still sticking to the core design philosophy of IS.

Thoughts? Counter ideas? I think in particular the first part of the idea about the boss mats has tons of value.

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Caeryl

Chialde wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Chialde wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Chialde wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Voxtrium wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Very much in favor of gatherer systems over the tiny amount of gear loot from World Bosses, but caravans can only launch from a town so it’d have to be some other system if there’s gonna be a decay feature.

I believe caravans can be launched from anywhere it just takes more time to launch the further from a node u are

Their current design plan is to only let it launch from a specific building in a node and I haven't heard any rumors to the contrary, so any decayable trophy loot would have to be lugged back manually by an induvial before the expiration.

When you destroy a caravan, you can create a new one right there to take all the loot, we saw as much during the pvp caravan stream
Not sure if it was locked to only after destroying a caravan, but they did wait like 5 minutes for the caravan to arrive

That's not creating it right there though, you're calling it up from the nearest town where you've already set one up, hence that wait time based on distance from the node. So while a rapid decay sounds interesting, it wouldn't work out due to caravans not arriving/spawning quickly at the dungeon area (which I wouldn't want them to, to be clear. Wouldn't be good for the spying/plotting systems they want when it could be done on a whim). I'm also pretty sure it'll just be for successful Caravan attacks, since as far as I could tell the cargo was loaded up before the original Caravan actually launched from town.

I'd much rather a generous timer (15 minutes or so) and it require a manual trek back to the node the player wants to buff up, at risk of dropping on death.

The decay timers were just a idea, it would obviously need balancing

There wasn’t any indication on wether the new caravan to collect from the looted one, and the crates were on the ground until the new caravan finished setting up

I based it more on the first caravan video where we saw the caravan being loaded up before the team went out of town to call to it to launch from the town, and I can’t remember if there was any UI system brought up for placing the cargo of a defeated caravan into that empty one they called from town.

Still think the gather from everything in the boss arena, including the boss to fill a caravan would be the best way to make raiding and world bosses more satisfying and have a risk/reward

Need/greed on random shit items each boss kill is boring and if it’s gear, well then there is no risk on getting it back to the node to sell/ breakdown/wear, since it can’t be dropped on death

Voxtrium

Caeryl wrote: »

Still think the gather from everything in the boss arena, including the boss to fill a caravan would be the best way to make raiding and world bosses more satisfying and have a risk/reward

Need/greed on random shit items each boss kill is boring and if it’s gear, well then there is no risk on getting it back to the node to sell/ breakdown/wear, since it can’t be dropped on death

On this we definitely agree. I think Steven’s comment about Hunters not having any interaction with the dragon is a huge backpedal. It started as ‘you’ll want to bring Gatherers to get the best drops’ to ‘Hunters will just be hunting specific mobs and get nothing extra from world bosses’[/quote]

This is the primary point I wanted to be considered, I feel like bosses should include more than just a greed pickup system. Especially with how much effort has gone into making all of the systems intertwined to begin with, this model follows much of their design philosophy and adds a good element to the game imo.

Caeryl

Voxtrium wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

Still think the gather from everything in the boss arena, including the boss to fill a caravan would be the best way to make raiding and world bosses more satisfying and have a risk/reward

Need/greed on random shit items each boss kill is boring and if it’s gear, well then there is no risk on getting it back to the node to sell/ breakdown/wear, since it can’t be dropped on death

On this we definitely agree. I think Steven’s comment about Hunters not having any interaction with the dragon is a huge backpedal. It started as ‘you’ll want to bring Gatherers to get the best drops’ to ‘Hunters will just be hunting specific mobs and get nothing extra from world bosses’

This is the primary point I wanted to be considered, I feel like bosses should include more than just a greed pickup system. Especially with how much effort has gone into making all of the systems intertwined to begin with, this model follows much of their design philosophy and adds a good element to the game imo.

Yeah. At the loot pull there was a very distinct feeling of ‘Where’s the rest of it?’

No dragon hide? No scales? No horns? No heart? Where’s the interdependency with crafters that was hyped up? A giant corpse is sitting on the ground and all we’re pulling from it is a couple bits of gear (that we were told was going to be a rare occurrence at first, and is now ‘you can expect it to drop from world bosses’)

Syblitrh

Also, i was expecting that heroic gear would have at least some extra unique stat traits, to really make it worth, and not be just a step to the next boss in the lvl progression. Is not always about the final numbers which raises the basic character attributes.
Some games gives a special trigger effect on the weapon related to the boss you killed. Some gives an extra effect which is linked to a specific skill, an extra colored attribute outside the basic attributes, etc. I know that fight was more a proof of concept, but i hope the stats on high tier gear or uniques, will get some unique traits rather than just a + number in the char attributes. It also contributes in making unique builds because of unique traits that a gear can have. It's a mmorpg in the end, not ark survival with basic attributes.
Also some text description on how the item was obtained, which gives you a moment of joy, " obtained by slaying the Devouring Flame ". Just enough to not feel bland, item1, item 2.

ps. this is feedback

Voeltz

This is how I imagined it would work minus the caravan part and fast decay. A 5 minute decay IMO would be bad though, it should have a normal despawn rate whatever that equates to in Ashes. Reason being lets say an opposing party or multiple wait and attack you right after the boss goes down to try and steal the resources (which would be a valid strategy), but the fight lasts so long that the corpse despawns before anyone can harvest anything. I think a longer despawn time is better because it gives more time to the primary group to gather the resources and transport them and also opens the potential for scavenger parties to come in after they're gone and get some of the scraps.

Second part I'll mention is about needing a caravan to transport. While it's not a bad idea, I don't necessarily agree it should be required 100% of the time. I would say only for raid bosses since they are so massive, not regular bosses and even then give players the option to use mules as well.

Lastly, I'll throw my own ideas into the pot that compliment it. I believe there should be different kinds of bosses that require different gatherers. For example a giant rock golem raid boss requires miners to gather the resources when downed, or a giant Ent that requires lumberjacking and/or herbalism. Additional rare resources could spawn throughout the boss area and/or dungeon that match the theme of the boss. Then there can be humanoid bosses that do not have anything for gatherers to get, but they have other things to compensate like additional item drops, increased rarity drops, gold/glint, recipes, or they just drop the unique materials and players roll on them.

akabear

I like the idea of having occasional special events where the loot from a particular boss becomes exceptionally valuable. During these events, not only is the loot abundant and distributed across all participants, but the twist is that whoever picks up the loot becomes flagged for PvP (Player versus Player). This flagging lasts until they successfully return to town.

The challenge would be that anyone carrying this loot becomes a target for other players, creating tension and excitement. If another player defeats the loot carrier, they can pick up the loot, but in doing so, they too become flagged and must carry it back to town.

This dynamic would encourage risk-taking, strategy, and teamwork as players would have to defend their valuable cargo from others while trying to safely deliver it to town.

It adds an extra layer of thrill, making these events both high-stakes and rewarding.

And you would have to trust who you fight with!

PS: maybe even pickup up multiple others look increases the value of the one you have! Then last man standing back to town!

Arya_Yeshe

I like a lot this idea overall about bringing a caravan for salvaging the boss parts and resources around the boss, but I do not like the trophy decay idea. Good shit!

Also, having the boss's corpse there would allow ninja salvaging from non-raiders and people who behave like vultures to show up and just like vultures they could ninja salvage materials, this would create drama and fights that are good things for the game.

It's best for the raiders if they calculate the ammount of time they will need to finish the boss and then summon the caravan before the boss dies, if they fail to kill the boss in time an the caravan arrives then the boss could also destroy the caravan, creating even more drama which is good for the game

Would be fantastic if the immediate area around the corpse could flag everybody for PvP, creating more fights and more drama that are good things for the game.

Chialde

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Would be fantastic if the immediate area around the corpse could flag everybody for PvP, creating more fights and more drama that are good things for the game.

Caravans are already a free pvp zone

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