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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
See you say that but the game is doing 99% of what I want it to do, and the 1% isn't unreasonable for a PvP game to have.
The game isn't offering you any content that you want.
That is 99% of what a game needs to do.
So, the game is doing 1% of what you want, not 99%.
If this game was doing 99% of what you want (I am somewhat suspect about your knowledge of how percent works), you wouldn't need to be here asking if there is a problem for your gameplay style.
1. General mob grinding
2. World events
3. General questing/commissions
4. Solo pking
5. Bounty hunting
6. Fishing
7. Gathering
8. Crafting
9. Treasure hunting
10. Node wars, guild wars too really, if you choose to and/or are allowed to be solo. Guild wars obviously only if you are a "solo" player who just so happens to be in a guild. Node sieges...maybe. Not sure how exactly those work yet, and who can get in, whether solo or not.
11. Caravans, inasmuch as the system's design ends up encouraging players to spontaneously defend or attack nearby caravans. We've heard of solo caravans, and there's mules too. Still lots unclear here, but there are indications that solos will be able to participate
12. Exploration/scouting/spying
13. General trading/auction house play/personal player stalls/traveling merchant
14. Lootwhore. Go to hotspots where people die often either to pve or pvp fights breaking out, and just loot people. Only possible because the game is designed in a way that allows it to be something you can do. No guildies on? Only an hour to play anyway? Head to the hotspot and lootwhore. Laugh at the chaos and shenanigans later irl when you log off. A bit unsavory, but can be lots of fun doing it to people who deserve it. Which is most people. Because they'd do it to you. See how that works. On the flip side, be a traveling/patrolling noble knight for your node or other areas. Intervene in fights where you think an injustice is happening. Yes, you can do this solo. Eat some salmon, get the omega 3's going, so you can make good decisions on which fights to take and which not to. It's very doable. Again, only possible in the game because the game allows that freedom for things to happen.
15. Achievement hunting/pet and mount collecting/housing(even if only an apartment, a bit of crop farming, decorating maybe)/religious and social organization progression.
Interesting quote from the wiki about "social organizations."
"Social organizations cater for solo players who don't wish to engage in guild-oriented organizations."
Ironic heh. But there ya go.
You said 50% play solo. You would just have to bring them into your guild by describing your goal. Then the server would be for you and people like you.
Find others to play with.
Edit: Still no answer after having it requoted twice is wildly blatant.
And I want to ask again, if this is not enough, if it isn't meaningful, what else do you want to be added? @AirborneBerserker @Chaliux
Again, for me, this is probably enough stuff to do in between group content. But then again, I wouldn't be against more meaningful solo content being added (as long as it doesn't substract from group content).
I can definitely argue how out of those 15 things, most aren't really meaningful content, but it's still going to take some time to do, and you can do this stuff every day, while you are not doing group content.
Besides, a lot of these activities will earn you some gold, so you can use that gold to buy better gear, meaning you are still at least progressing. Obviously not at the same rate as someone who's doing better group content, who's in a guild, who's hardcore, etc. but still progressing, rather than doing stuff but staying at the same place.
That has nothing to do with it. I have no underlying motivation to stop other people from having fun with this game.
It is not about stopping them but helping them.
Your post is a complaint that solo players have a problem.
And you also say 50% are solo players.
So you can solve their problem and gather them all onto a server. Then you can play as you want.
Ashes is literally built on the notion that people will do exactly this.
Only if the players ignore that part of the game loop is sudden contesting of their attainments. If someone hates that... well... you can't go into a thermal spring and complain that the water is too hot.
Most of the very bloated points (just to artificially reach 15... bit ridiculous) are mainly gap fillers, that's a more suitable wording.
Serveral mentioned topics are group content or not to mention as "content". Some don't provide rewards, so the reason for doing it can be groundless.
- General mob grinding
This is not "content" to slay pigs and crocodiles in the open world, it's just a gap filler. Counting it as "content" is unreasonable.
Never did that in my 20y MMO playing to be honest. Not meaningful. It's only done if no real content is provided, it's only done to fill gaps, it's a workaround, no content.
- World events
Seems to be mainly group content or which solo world event is meant by that?
Solo world events would be fine - it's meant in terms of (solo) questing then (point 1 below).
Firebrand is a world event, but no solo content, so not counting. Nothing to do as solo there - as we've already got explained from some experts here.
1. General questing/commissions
Sure, that's real content, first point. Playing pve against npcs with rewards (everybody gets the rewards by finishing the quest, exp/items/whatever), by "default" in a MMO game. If it can be done solo depends on the quest design and has relation to the non-combatant / corruption system. If you are alone and just want to quest a bit (as non-combatant) you still are in trouble due to group pvp happening.
2. Solo pking
Playing pvp in a pvp game - yes, of course, that's content and can be done solo, as long as other solo players are running around. Valid point, incluse rewards (loot, exp).
- Bounty hunting
Perhaps true, but it's a feature, no "content". It's on the same level as "solo pking" (so same point, it's a cluster), because it's all about playing pvp against another player (in this case: a corrupted one), but it remains pking. If it is worth it to do this alone is unclear. So, it's a feature, no content.
3. Gathering (like Fishing) and Crafting
That's a cluster, but pve content. It's "default" in every serious MMO. Valid point and meaningful (rewards, progress). If you argue around "mob farming", than it's in this cluster at "gathering" (because you mobs farming is no content, but "gathering" materials or whatever for the next content-step (crafting) is needed. So if in any way, "mob grinding" is within this cluster and no single content point.
- Treasure hunting (combined with "exploring/scouting/spying")
Exploring or scouting is no "content", it's a playing style. It's running around in the world. If you run around and tell somebody about what's happening out there and provide information about other groups/guilds running around that's not content, omg. If counting it like this every feature and personal playing style starts to be "content".
Which treasures are hunt? That is a feature than.
With this logic you can put "pet riding" as content, because it can be done solo. Or slashing weapons against the same pig over hours (if weapons level in exp by killing mobs). But weapon skills are a feature and no content.
- Node wars, guild wars
That's no solo content, you have to do this as guild or group if it should be meaningful, it's designed around groups. To quest for a node is content (that's within point 1), or to provide gathered materials (I assume this will be like in New World) for your node (that's within point 1 as well already - questing at town board)
- Caravans
That's definitely group content and designed around it. The expection that only one enemy is escorting the caravan leads to "solo pk'ing", already within point 2.
4 General trading/auction house play/personal player stalls/traveling merchant
Academic discussion, whether this is are just features (default ones on other MMOs) or "content". In my understanding it's no content, it's a feature, but let's be nice - point 4.
- Lootwhore.
No idea why this should be called "content", it's player behaviour/playsytle and if, it would already be within the point "PK-ing/pvp-ing" (point 2).
5 Achievement hunting/pet and mount collecting/housing (even if only an apartment, a bit of crop farming, decorating maybe)/religious and social organization progression
Achievements are not content, they are a result of abouve mentioned content or features.
Housing yes, but how meaningful that will be has to be checked before.
What's "religious progression" - what content is done hereby?
I'm ok that this can be count as no. 5.
Anyway - test phase(s) will answer, what really can be done in a meaningful way with appropriate rewards if player time and performance is invested - independent from being in a group (unit) or not.
Moreover, most of the above mentioned points are valid, if you are pvp-flagged, so you did a conscious decision about this and therefore can't complain about other groups (or solo players) attacking you. But it's not valid if you are not pvp flagged, so non-combatant. Because if you only want to go fishing but one out of an eight man group just attacks you, it's not meaningful and just wasting your invested time. The one currupted perhaps got an issue, but there are 7 more to go attacking you. No fishing, no content, no fun. And you can't avoid this, so your meaningful content is transferred to a waste of time.
Nothing more exciting then playing a game designed as multiplayer alllllllllll by your lil lonesome. And then whining cause you Your scared of the keyboard.
Oh wait no, looking for page 10 on why MMO'S should not exist and everything should be solo player.
You cannot play in groups 24/7, and in this game (by design and systems) you will lack meaningful, rewarding solo content and you are wasting your time due to getting no choice at which time you want to play solo content, because you can be attacked at every time from other groups and not only other solo players. It's the combination of both here. And just adding to an existing group running around that "accept" you (think about a caravan and you pass their way) will not happen, you show up, you are dead. It's only wasting your time, there will be no progress at all.
If you would have the experience of pvp servers and pve servers, so both, you would understand this point of view. There you get what you decided by your own, so have a real choice within the game. You can have 3 characters on pve servers and 3 different ones on pvp servers and you will have meaningful content with all consequences you decided by your own during that situation. No other player or design can change your decision. You are the only one who can do that, by yourself.
How can you not play in groups 24/7 and how have I never had this problem? This sounds like a solo player mentality where they don't find a guild that fits them. Either playing with a tiny friend group and relying on them to be on, or doesn't care to build strong connections with people and just has random small groups around that are inconsistent.
Pretty much there is no excuse for not finding a group that fits your play time when you need to group, on top of having multiple groups around at different play times. This includes morning, mid day, night, or 3am.
I've been playing MMOs since over 20years in guilds (in diferrent positions, in different size of guilds, in pve guilds, in pvp progress guilds). But playing solo has nothing to do with being in a guild. I dont understand how you cannot understand this, to be honest. 24/7 always in gropu means thats a guild of unemployed guys or what do you want to tell me? I never was in guilds with unemployed people, by contrast, in guilds, were real life is prior and therefore even with 100 members there are situations were you log in and it's not suitable and not desired to play as group, because solo play is preferred. And that's not even an issue, as long as it is intended and desired and suits to the current situation, day, playing time, goal to achieve this evening.
The big question is: Why should you always only, at every second being online, play in groups? Playing massive multiplayer does not mean to play together every second of the game for 10 years, but it states, that you see, interact, play together, along side (or against) with/other players. With our without a group, with our without guild members being online. You are fishing for 1h. Why the hell should this done with a 8 man group? You log in and there are already two groups active, so you cannot join a group this evening, and this situation just happens. So you play solo this evening - what's the problem? There shouldn't be a problem as long as the game offers meaningful, rewarding choices that support this solo situations and are not wasting your time because other groups are just pvp-ing you down every second of your playtime.
You are serious, right?
I am not interested in zoning other people out from having fun with this game.
There is nothing in the design that prevents Soloers from engaging in meaningful and rewarding content.
You do not have to join a group to participate in Caravan attack/defense or Node Sieges or Node Wars. There's even stuff in Dungeons that players can Solo.
Ashes is high Risk for PvP. But, Groups are not going to want to gain Corruption and raise their PK Scores to kill Soloers for no compelling reason.
If you try to attack a Caravan Solo, when no other Attackers are around, you will probably be dead.
Better to join the Defense of the Caravan, if there are no other Attackers.
If you choose Defense for the Caravan, it will be impossible for the other players on Defense to kill you.
That describes someone who is dead; not unemployed.
That really makes no sense.
A player can spend most of their time playing in Groups even when they are not playing with Guild members.
A player can also be in a Guild and spend most of their time Soloing.
Obviously, people will Solo sometimes.
Ashes allows for all of that.
Why is that a question??
Solo if you want to Solo.
If you only have an hour to play, you might not have time to find and form a group and complete a Quest or run a Dungeon - probably better to Solo. Ashes allows players to do that.
There is no problem with Soloing for hours if that's what you want to do. If you like to Group, but your Guildies are busy and you have the time... go to a Tavern or check out some local Freeholds and/or Open World Housing. Look for a Caravan raid. If you're in a Guild, you can probably find a mini-Castle Siege/Caravan.
If your Guild owns a Castle, there will be Siege prep.
Ashes has high Risk for PvP. Sure, maybe if you're Soloing a Dungeon other groups might kill all rivals on sight, but... seems unlikely a Group will bother with PKing a Solo player if you're just doing Solo stuff - because a Soloer really won't be able to compete with them for loot.
There is stuff to do solo but all the good stuff requires a group as it should be.
If you can't find meaningful content that is a you problem not an Intrepid problem.
Stated from the start to be a Multiplayer game.
Do you play stuff like Monopoly by yourself as?
You know for those times you want to play monopoly but your friend is busy.
Kind of weird that your first response is people are unemployed because they are up late, even then it had no real merit of the conversation besides you seeming to be looking down on other people weirdly. Regardless of reason if people are on, they are on to group with there should be no reason or excuse you have to not find a group that is playing around when you want to play. You are trying to make up a weird excuse right now.
I will say it again if you are looking for groups of people to play with you can find a guild THERE IS NO EXCUSE to be comparing about not having people to group with. That should be impossible, that would be you making up excuses since you are too damn stubborn.
There is no reason you have to be in a group if you don't want to, I'm just making it clear WHEN YOU WANT TO GROUP, You will be able to get a group so long as you have a goo guild that matches your play time and they have enough members to support multiple times of day.
You are trying to simply just double down but factually having played mmorpgs myself for years, if i tried to find a group i could get a group. Now a days it is much easier with how connected people are even more so. If you are failing to find a group you are not int he right guild or not trying hard enough. As I've had 0 issue having a group in my guild unless the mmorpg was dead.
This is why you now will make up weird arguments like fishing and being in a group, saying people don't have jobs so you don't play with them (weird ass take), etc. Do better and find a guild now that has enough players in it to support you needing groups at off times of the day.
Granted you talking about people aren't on at weird hours and not playing with jobless people, should means u should have 0 issue finding a guild that has people at prime time when you are clearly playing. So im kind of sensing bs coming from somewhere from you right now. As its not 24/7 on finding a group its just prime time for you lmfao.
I didn't say that, iccer said that, you misquoted. I pretty much agree with it though. Because what is content and what is meaningful is somewhat subjective. So he can definitely argue, anyone can. Not looking to litigate a supreme court case on what is content, what is meaningful, or even what a solo player is.
But I was responding to this:
Examples of plenty to do. I have about 0 desire to debate what is and what isn't a "content type." Because I've been here long enough and have seen how ridiculous those conversations get. Everyone has a different definition. But examples of "plenty to do" was a layup.
It seems because we're on completely different pages than each other, most of both of our posts are moot in regards to each other, so no need to respond to most of yours. But in the context of what I was writing about, "plenty to do," I didn't bloat anything. If anything, I condensed, adding multiple entries to a single bullet point. I could have kept going too, past 15.
I'll leave it to you and whoever to argue about what is meaningful content. I am an mmorpg player with a definite pvp leaning focus. My definition of what is content and what is meaningful is going to be wildly different than yours.
That said though, my greatest accomplishments, my most exhilarating moments, pound for pound the most fun I've ever had in an mmo, have all come playing solo. This coming from someone who has been in some very top tier guilds, in some cases the best pvpers/pvers on a server by miles.
And nevertheless I've had the most fun solo. There's just something about it being just you, left to your own wits, no one in the background blabbing about what color dog they saw today. No one to turn to, no one to run to, success or failure is all on you. I love it. Group play is great, a very close second in many cases, and not something I'd ever forsake. But solo play is a drug. And if you do it long enough, with an aim to get better at it, you get very good at it. So some of your rebuttals about pvp and if theres 8 players attacking you while you're fishing, or solo pking not being worth it unless it's only against other solos. I disagree with those premises. That's the point, the challenge. That's what makes it fun, for me. Whether pve or pvp, being solo, being outnumbered, outgunned, and winning anyway. Or not.
All that to say, I am a solo player. I'm both really, group and solo. But I may be more of a solo player than group. I think your issues are with the game itself. I might agree with you on some of it, or at the very least sympathize with you on it. But I'm not really worried about there not being plenty to do as a solo. My advice to other solo players would be to embrace your solo playstyle, be very good at it, use it for it's full worth when you either feel like soloing, or are forced to solo because none of your friends are on. But get a group/guild of some sort going too. In Ashes it will be more important than the average mmo. It is purposefully designed that way.
Especially if you are solo out there, then it's mainly risk (and no reward, but loss).
Sure, 24/7 is meant as expression to deliver the message, but whatever.
But, depending on where you life, unemployed is quite close to dead, so..
Exaclty, that's what I'm talking about. Players will definitly play solo, depending on the circumstances. It's a lie and impossible that you play in groups permanently. That even makes no sense to go fishing with 8 man in your group, for instance.
Correct - that's what I'm saying. It makes no sense to always group just because the game is group-based. There must be and hopefully is meaningful solo content available to play like this if you desire it or if circumstances doesnt allow something else in this particulat moment/situation.
If you can affort a dungeon, group. If you can affort a 5 man group for a group-quest, do it.
Sometimes you want, sometimes you have no choice. But what is important, it must offer progression and rewards. Just playing solo for getting killed 2h long or getting no reward/progress/items is pointless, players will not do it then and thus will leave, which overall will decrease realm population which overall will damage the game.
It's enough that is is possible that the group can do it - if those group players decide to kill the solo player (even with non-combatant), they will do. They are probably 8 man, they have no issue. What if it is done briefly before the go into a instanced dungeon? Who cares about corruption than? The risk is only at the solo player (+ no reward, but waste in time). It's coincidence for the non-combantant solo player whether he get's attacked or not so can do his meaningful solo content or not. It's bit different for the pvp flagged player, as he did a completely other choice before, is wants to be a combatant and offers his readiness for pvp and his readiness to lose time and (bit) progress.
1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13, and 15 are all basic things you would expect to be in an MMORPG, and constitute neither solo or group content but, necessary dressing for an MMORPG.
2 and 9 are just PK bait. People will all gravitate towards these and PKers will realize this and lie in wait.
10 and 11 are explicitly group based content and saying you can do that is like me saying well you can do MC with 4 level 30 characters. Sure you CAN do it but its kind of pointless and you wont get anything out of it.
4 and 5 aren't really feasible due the consequences of PKing and how long it will take solo players to get geared. 5 leans on 4 so if 4 cant be don't then neither can 5.
14 is a terrible Idea you are more likely to die then to gain anything that could be gained elsewhere more easily.
I'm counting Scouting and Spying as something separate because those are both methods of intelligence gathering while you could do these they are class locked and most guilds will have one of their own members do this, so Solo people that run in guilds.
There is another thing not mentioned here which is the plan to implement instanced battlegrounds during node sieges. I have played that game, I don't want to get farmed as I spawn at a graveyard for 15 mins by fully geared players in a guild.
Be sure to tell that to the people that join 6 months after launch.
Never said something different. Just said it's pointless if there is NO reward or no meaningful reward. If you invest, non-combatant, 3h solo for 20 glint and 10 leather (only examples...) and you will die 20 times in between it's pointless.
No, it must be offered and must be rewarded with sense. That's job of the game to offer choices, the player just decides. If no choice is provided (because you are forced to play or do it like the "design" dictates you, than for sure it's their problem and responsiblity.
Good thing. But within multiple players playing online in real time in the same world you can (and should still be able) to play solo. Strange, but in real world, where multiple humans live, you seriously can do stuff alone. Sounds strange, but that happens. if you desire you do stuff alone, do it alone as long as it makes sense. Your not a social problem case or behaviorally disturbing at the same time.
Sure, I love playing board games, we have counless of them at home which we play as family or with friend on chilled evenings with a nice BBQ pool party at our house and a suitable caribbean rum.
But that's a wrong comparison. Monopoly is an instanced group play with framework of rules and it's only for excatly those players that are in it and play together within that ruleset and same goal.
What you want so say is: You have sparetime and you can play monopoly with frieds or you can swim in your pool in the garden, if your friends have no time or if they just started to play Monopoly and you are just too late (that's no pity, it just happens). There is nothing bad on this situation, but it's a real one. Sure, your friends can stop playing Monopoly, but if you are a good friend by yourself, you will leave them playing monopoly and just try to find someting for your own.
The last aspect missing here is: Swimming in the pool (progress: muscles/health, reward: cooling) should not be disturbed by the neighbor coming into your pool and getting a dagger into your back. Because your goal ist: Swimming.
I won't have to.
As you said new players coming in will have new players coming in to play with.....plus the added benefit of all the other players already there to play with.
They do have a choice.
Find others to play with or go do solo stuff.
When you are in a guild do you only play with people in your guild? Or do you find groups of people not in your guild to do stuff with when your guildies are not available and you want to go do group stuff?
Still not understanding why this is so challenging.
Yes because that is what anyone has said at this point.
So the level 10 players are supposed to group with level 50 players? Good plan.
May I ask you how many (and which) MMO you've played so far?