Noaani wrote: » Kilion wrote: » Dunno, possibly. I am not exactly sure how US banking services operate and how such penalty measurements are taken exactly, but I would think that this ban is something the financial institution (over which we transact with Intrepid) would be the one having to enforce the ban. You are working on the assumption that gold sellers use a bank. For the most part, they use single use, pre paid cards. Intrepid can go out of their way to ban the card, but that card was only ever going to be used on that one account anyway.
Kilion wrote: » Dunno, possibly. I am not exactly sure how US banking services operate and how such penalty measurements are taken exactly, but I would think that this ban is something the financial institution (over which we transact with Intrepid) would be the one having to enforce the ban.
Noaani wrote: » Bots are different. Players can see bots, but bots are not gold sellers. Bots are much easier to deal with than gold sellers.
Noaani wrote: » Live GM's are so incredibly inefficient that this is simply not their reason for existing. The nature of account bans in an MMORPG is that they happen infrequently, but with many at a time. This is the way it has to happen, for a number of reasons. What live GM's do is they provide players with an amount of assurance that the developer is doing something in the middle of those ban waves. In a game like WoW, live GM's ban an account at a time. The people out the back doing the real work ban tens of thousands of accounts at a time. So yeah, a serious discussion about actually trying to keep cheating, botting or RMT out of an MMORPG really shouldn't be talking about live GM's - they are an ineffective tool that exit as a means of showing face.
Kilion wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Kilion wrote: » Dunno, possibly. I am not exactly sure how US banking services operate and how such penalty measurements are taken exactly, but I would think that this ban is something the financial institution (over which we transact with Intrepid) would be the one having to enforce the ban. You are working on the assumption that gold sellers use a bank. For the most part, they use single use, pre paid cards. Intrepid can go out of their way to ban the card, but that card was only ever going to be used on that one account anyway. Gotta be honest here: I don't know what a prepaid card is. But since it seems to be a fairly well established financial product, Intrepid could decide to not accept payment through these in the first place, right? Or to still require a registered bank account to be accepted into the game. I'm out of my wheelhouse here, but to me this doesn't sound like a very common method to pay your subscription fee.
Noaani wrote: » Bots are different. Players can see bots, but bots are not gold sellers. Bots are much easier to deal with than gold sellers. Agreed, bots and gold sellers ought to be spotted through different means. But why would dealing with a gold seller be more difficult? Because they use third party applications to communicate?
Noaani wrote: » Live GM's are so incredibly inefficient that this is simply not their reason for existing. The nature of account bans in an MMORPG is that they happen infrequently, but with many at a time. This is the way it has to happen, for a number of reasons. What live GM's do is they provide players with an amount of assurance that the developer is doing something in the middle of those ban waves. In a game like WoW, live GM's ban an account at a time. The people out the back doing the real work ban tens of thousands of accounts at a time. So yeah, a serious discussion about actually trying to keep cheating, botting or RMT out of an MMORPG really shouldn't be talking about live GM's - they are an ineffective tool that exit as a means of showing face. I am serious, which is why I see them as part of the solution. Not the entire solution, part of it. An automated system wont be able to accurately identify them every time, in such cases having a live GM help with the investigation can be a step towards making things clear. As for waves of banning: There is no need to do it in a wave unless the technology has made a jump forward in identifying illegal activities and uncovers a lot of gold sellers or bots at once.
Noaani wrote: » These products are fairly well established in many parts of the world. I can buy a pre-paid single use credit card from my local supermarket - similar to how some people would buy a Steam card. Many players from many parts of the world use this kind of card for all online purchases as an additional form of security.
Noaani wrote: » Keep in mind, gold sellers have decades of experience in making their activities go unseen.
Noaani wrote: » They really aren't a part of that solution. They have their place, but that place isn't being a real force against cheating, botting or RMT. They are there for the rest of the players in the game - and quite honestly that is what they have always been there for. Their original purpose 20+ years ago was to run in game events and such. Honestly, they aren't worth being a part of this conversation. As to why bans happen in waves - why they have to happen in waves. Imagine you are running a business that is selling gold, selling or operation a cheat, or some other neferious thing. Everything is fine, things are running how you want. Then, one day, accounts start getting banned. Just a few, so no major issues - but you obviously need to do something about it. So, you figure out what the game developer changed, and you alter your software/systems so that they can no longer catch your activities. You then just go on about your way. However, if the developers wait for a few months, gather information on all the account that are using what ever neferious activities you are providing, and then ban all of them at once, you have no way at all of knowing when they detected your activity, and thus no idea at all how they were detecting it. Thus, it is in all of our best interests that account bans happen in waves.
Caracarn wrote: » Greetings all. ... if Intrepid Studios want to make this ultimate RPG MMO then it needs to be clean from gold selling and real consequences for those trying to cheat or break gamerules.
Caracarn wrote: » Another thing about economy. As I understand this will be a key element for the whole game and there will not be one auction house where people sit all day controlling the market. How will Intrepid prevent hic-ups when live so the economy wont be destroyed?
BlackBrony wrote: » There is no point in fighting gold sellers because there still be one. It's just like the DPS meters, you can't stop people from having one. Better to put resources where it matters.
Kilion wrote: » Noaani wrote: » These products are fairly well established in many parts of the world. I can buy a pre-paid single use credit card from my local supermarket - similar to how some people would buy a Steam card. Many players from many parts of the world use this kind of card for all online purchases as an additional form of security. But they might not be made available for payment options, if they cause an influx of gold sellers. Might be a lead to finding a solution.
And digital security companies as well as gaming companies have an equal amount of experience. With Intrepid having had some pretty seasoned staff members, I assume they are not going into this entirely green.
