Endgame PvP transition

Question for the community and maby Devs

I've run in this in retail WoWs and a private servers.
While in open world PvP it has become impossibly hard to see an players powerlevel at a glance. Due to transmogs, you cant rely on their character model to give you an indication.
While leveling, you can look at their level and decide if its worth the risk to fight someone higher than you or if you should run/be cautious.
A same level fight is usually fair and the gear differences are most of the time negligible.
Reaching max level you are suddenly thrown into a completely different scenario. You are the bottom of the barrel in power level and if the game has been persising for some time, almost noone else is percentage wise.
The only reliable thing for seeing if you could even realistically take someone on, was to compare their HP to mine. Yet HP are different for mage/tank/whatever. Klicking them and inspecting their gear is not feasable in hectic scenarios like beeing ganked.

Whats a good way to indicate powerlevel differences in PvP at max level?

The large range of power that max lvl gear has makes it so you almost cant win a fight against someone with BiS gear. No matter how much you try to outplay. Thats not a problem in my eyes, they have earned that power. I just want a chance to run. The increased draw distance of AoC compared to other games will help, since you can scout reliable.

I might suggest seeing the elite indicators that NPCs have.
1 star (a little over your gear level)
2 star (significantly over your gear level)
3 star (the equivalent of a mob that has a skull for its lvl in wow)
All relative to your power.

Having this would give fresh max lvl characters the tools to pick fair fights and gear up in the process, while avoiding getting goomba stomped into the ground every time they take a fight.

This prevents some frustration, one of the main quit reasons of pvp.
Newly max characters should have a pvp scene too i beleve and they should have the tools to seek it out.

PS: I dont like pvp specific gear, any ideas on how to design a more flexable system for gear?

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Taleof2Cities

Pendragxn wrote: »

In my opinion, a color-coded system for name tags has generally worked well. The concept is straightforward: green signifies a low threat, yellow or orange indicates moderate danger, and red or purple points to a high-level risk. This makes it easy to quickly assess someone’s threat level at a glance.

Threat assessment should be done by the player and not the game in my opinion.

Color-coding (if done right) makes the player’s decision way too easy.

Caeryl

Pendragxn wrote: »

In my opinion, a color-coded system for name tags has generally worked well. The concept is straightforward: green signifies a low threat, yellow or orange indicates moderate danger, and red or purple points to a high-level risk. This makes it easy to quickly assess someone’s threat level at a glance.

That works for PvE mobs, but for other players? I'd rather people have to screw around and find out if they choose to be combative.

Arya_Yeshe

Not knowing what are you up against is fine, lots of new contents and gameplay styles will come up from this, for example:
-level max guy gears up with the cheapest gear and go bait fights against against him

If you got no clue if you want to take a fight, just set your flag to green and try to figure out the other guy

Nightmarelol

I think you need to take into account having “BIS” gear isn’t always the “best”. The reason I say this since you’ve taken the WoW approach, sometimes I swap out gear or trinkets depends on the stats I need. Say for example a 600 ilvl Shoulders has Crit/Verse on it, but instead id run a 580 ilvl Shoulders which has Haste/Mastery and say a Proc (Gain a absorb shield or do extra damage) or its part of a Tier Set, which for my Spec works out much better for me then the Crit/Verse and No Proc/Non Tier Set. So yes you might see a player with high end gear, but if it’s not the stats he needs you could probably go toe-to-toe and beat that guy. Then again where do we draw the line on this because me wearing that lower ilvl gear might mean a person will jump me thinking I don’t have much gear on, but cause of the stats on it and a Proc on it or Tier Set (2/4 Set) I end up winning this duel?

Noaani

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Pendragxn wrote: »

In my opinion, a color-coded system for name tags has generally worked well. The concept is straightforward: green signifies a low threat, yellow or orange indicates moderate danger, and red or purple points to a high-level risk. This makes it easy to quickly assess someone’s threat level at a glance.

Threat assessment should be done by the player and not the game in my opinion.

Color-coding (if done right) makes the player’s decision way too easy.

Players should have all the information they need to make an informed decision.

The difficulty in an encounter should not be found in the decision whether to take it on or not. That should be an easy decision to make.

Kilion

This is just a feeling I have but I could imagine that Intrepid will do 2 things in this regard.
One would be the absence of a broadly accessible vertical gear progression that will set apart max level players to the extent that they VASTLY overpower other max level players.
The other is that social gameplay might encompass for players to find out about the strongest players, guilds etc of their server to assess their competition, so that when you see Ultrahaxxor420 of the "Badass Guild" you know, these are PvP freaks with the gear and skill to outperform most on the server.

daveywavey

Azherae wrote: »

But the point isn't really to know if you will win or not.

It's to let you know (in certain games) that you are so outclassed in basic relative power that you should approach it entirely differently rather than trying to just adapt.

Similar to realizing that you're in the wrong area because the mobs are too strong.

Being able to tell the difference between 'oh that's practically a legendary hero around here, I stand no chance' and 'wait this person's build dunks on mine' is kind of important, isn't it?

Risk vs Reward, though, right?

If you get to find out everybody you're going to destroy, that removes the Risk part. If you don't know whether the guy you're wanting to attack is a black-belt martial artist or a guy with brittle bone syndrome, that introduces an element of risk that you wouldn't have had if they'd both been wearing t-shirts saying: "I'm with Black-Belt" and "I'm with Brittle-Bone".

IustinusShiva

From the wiki;
The nameplate will show the actual armour type and the grade of their gear.

Azherae

daveywavey wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

But the point isn't really to know if you will win or not.

It's to let you know (in certain games) that you are so outclassed in basic relative power that you should approach it entirely differently rather than trying to just adapt.

Similar to realizing that you're in the wrong area because the mobs are too strong.

Being able to tell the difference between 'oh that's practically a legendary hero around here, I stand no chance' and 'wait this person's build dunks on mine' is kind of important, isn't it?

Risk vs Reward, though, right?

If you get to find out everybody you're going to destroy, that removes the Risk part. If you don't know whether the guy you're wanting to attack is a black-belt martial artist or a guy with brittle bone syndrome, that introduces an element of risk that you wouldn't have had if they'd both been wearing t-shirts saying: "I'm with Black-Belt" and "I'm with Brittle-Bone".

I actually don't care if it shows everyone 'supposedly even or below you' as the same, and the system is just a 'warning level' for those above.

Also, I'd expect the majority of time this was used, to be by people who are deciding if to try fighting back, in which case it's less about that.

I don't find 'Risk Vs Reward' to be a compelling argument for this, but I'm not the target audience of Ashes so that is likely to be the main reason for that.

Aszkalon

Azherae wrote: »

The ability to attack someone, see their star level come up and realize they're no match for me, and not continue the attack, would be great for me.

I see You are not just any PvP'er, Azherae. You are a PvP'er of merit. As expected.

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