Prosperity vs Demise

What direction would you like to see your server take?

Prosperity in Ashes is going to take collective effort. Would you like to see your guild take a more PVE approach conquering the game? Creating a spot on the map from PVE content and developing alliances with neighbouring players. Potentially with alliances among all the different areas; allowing for guilds to travel to all PVE content and collect goods to build their spot on the map. All guilds would have access to an abundance of goods to create the best wares and progress through the highest PVE content. Using the castles sieges and colosseums as war games of course. Politics would play a larger role on a server like this; though rules are made to be broken.

Demise in Ashes will come in the form of PvP or lack of goods. Would you like to see your guild be involved more in PvP and conquering map? Attacking your neighbouring players will have benefits in the way of spoils and land. Also potentially shrinking the area of the game you will have access to and making the collection of goods challenging. War among players will be expensive. Not only will it damage the person you’re attacking but your equipment decays as well. Having the goods to create a head of steam for a war effort will take time. A server like this would be chaos; where some people would thrive.

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Depraved

Chaliux wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

how does that work?

Because there are 3 factions and depending on the hardcore players within the faction and their online activity/availability (so grinding, contributing) regions where dominated from that faction. On both severs I've played that was (by accident?) purple, the Syndicate.

Example picture (from a website, no screenshot from me).

That was no fun for Covenant and Marauder players.

Or maybe Covenant dominated?

Depeding on luck during server choice, it was an ugly gaming experience.

Whatever Ashes designed to avoid this, it should be avoided and it needs developer intervention (with mechanics, systems, designs) to decrease this domination risk (or to have possibilities to solve the issue once domination starts). The more balanced a realm is, the better it is for the overal game and community health.

no developer intervention pls.

what I mean is, territory sieges are fair giths. its a 50 vs 50 instanced fight. you don't need to fight 50 vs 1000, just 50 vs 50. even if the enemy do more quest and attack more often, you could win 50 vs 50...unless they were better, you know.

anyways, in nw it didn't matter too much if a faction had all the territories since they couldn't stop the other factions to do anything to progress their chars.

Flanker

The more challenging and difficult it is, the more I enjoy it

Ungohil

Flanker wrote: »

The more challenging and difficult it is, the more I enjoy it

So you should play a soulslike game?

Dripyula

Chaliux wrote: »

Both, only one part of content is boring.
PvX!

Whatever it will be, I doubt it will be good for Ashes health if players cannot choose.
Maybe it is just the times we are living in but I believe to notice a big part of the overall global playerbase not being interested in forced PvP anymore.
Which "PvX" pretty much is.

Reason why I think that?
Witnessed behaviour in World of Warcraft, League of Legends and Sea of Thieves.
In all three games PvP is very toxic due to its either mandatory nature to get certain rewards and League being an exclusive PvP game, at least as far as I know only from watching, is universally known in the internet for being a toxic game.

I believe that we have lived long enough now in a videogame culture that there are a lot of people who are tired of so called "competitive elements".
And if Ashes will not offer this part of the demographic, which seems very big at the very least, a pure PvE server model, they might not join the game.
Wether or not Intrepit is willing and able to tank that financially, who knows?

World of Warcraft:
Professional PvP even among random grouped instance PvP, has completely deteriorated since... pfffff... "Cataclysm" first released? I stopped playing in "The Burning Crusade" already but I have seen Aszkalon play a few expansions later and oh god, was this a s°°°show.
The unwillingness to organize shows the overall evaluation of PvP in general.
The amount of people willing to organize is as many as those who are not willing.

Sea of Thieves:
Every few updates it feels like it is a battle from the developers against the players, to lure or force them into more PvP and the ever unwilling, broad part of the SoT playerbase, always finding new ways to avoid it.
Or participate only for the least necessary time to get some kind of achievement/reward and then never joining those interactions ever again.

A telling story. In SoT I am or was a PvX player and it was good as long as Rare did not exaggerate the PvP for too much, which they inevitably did. And since then it feels like the game's friendly population took a nosedive.
And all that is left are the usual addicts, simps, whales and people still in the conflict phase between either letting the game go and leave, but still playing and undecided.

And in general when all is finished & done, every weapon used, every cannonball shot, every dagger thrown, every curse used and every treasure stolen... what is left is the generall & overall atmosphere of the game.
Which is lacking in ways that Ashes probably never will.
But I hope the overall ambience will hopefully not be this toxic mixture that PvX brings with it like in SoT.

A rancid, annoyed grunting whenever you see another playership nearby and notice it also stays suspiciously close no matter where you sail off to.
And somehow always tries to stay in between you and the next nearest outpost.
... and then I lower my rowboat full of treasure, sneak off and their plotting never works.

But it can be pretty annoying and exhausting.
Especially when people are so loaded like I am, with 20 million gold and more doubloons than I can ever spend and I know the only reason these people do it, is truly because they are griefers and wanna enjoy the disappointment or rage of someone else.
And if there is no real incentive in a game to do this except for ruining another players day, then my respect is gone and not existent anymore.

I do hope that does not happen in Ashes and the Node-guilds will somehow "get along".
And that no Cringelords can hold a server in a chokehold for who knows how long?
F°°° I did it again.
This became a "concern post" didn't it?

Dayum. ^^

Pendragxn

It’s a simple fix you just have PvX zones that are forced flag PvP. The PvE’s have the choice not to go into those zones it’s risk vs reward you want better stuff you risk getting PK’d. Obviously in the game you will have the choice to do PvE or PvP anyways but not having PvX is a bad design especially in a competitive MMO. I can see there being a lot of PvP/PvX around caravans and transporting it makes sense though, and if you just want to transport safely without any risk you might as well go play an economy simulator to just farm currency all day.

I’m not saying PvP environments don’t get toxic however that’s just the competitive nature of the players. Also I can make an economy as a ganker or by hijacking caravans getting the loot it’s just the circle of life. I’m not ganking or PK’ing someone to grief them it’s an opportunity to make money while doing something I enjoy. However I feel like transporting safely is kind of your job to organise a group transport with your guild or friends or hire mercenaries if you’ve got so much money to transport. I don’t blame the PvP or PvX player they’re just doing what’s in their nature and what they enjoy which is also a big part of the experience, community and player base.

I’ve experienced the edgelord cringe myself when one group dominates the whole server it can be unfair yes. However hopefully there is some balance or sense of the community or players to come together to fight this kind of thing to group up. Having a villain that the whole server can be against is not necessarily a bad thing it creates content but everyone is too afraid to oppose them. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and do the same tactics to the enemy that they’re doing to you, and as the saying goes the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Githal

Dripyula wrote: »

Chaliux wrote: »

Both, only one part of content is boring.
PvX!

Whatever it will be, I doubt it will be good for Ashes health if players cannot choose.
Maybe it is just the times we are living in but I believe to notice a big part of the overall global playerbase not being interested in forced PvP anymore.
Which "PvX" pretty much is.

Reason why I think that?
Witnessed behaviour in World of Warcraft, League of Legends and Sea of Thieves.
In all three games PvP is very toxic due to its either mandatory nature to get certain rewards and League being an exclusive PvP game, at least as far as I know only from watching, is universally known in the internet for being a toxic game.

I believe that we have lived long enough now in a videogame culture that there are a lot of people who are tired of so called "competitive elements".
And if Ashes will not offer this part of the demographic, which seems very big at the very least, a pure PvE server model, they might not join the game.
Wether or not Intrepit is willing and able to tank that financially, who knows?

World of Warcraft:
Professional PvP even among random grouped instance PvP, has completely deteriorated since... pfffff... "Cataclysm" first released? I stopped playing in "The Burning Crusade" already but I have seen Aszkalon play a few expansions later and oh god, was this a s°°°show.
The unwillingness to organize shows the overall evaluation of PvP in general.
The amount of people willing to organize is as many as those who are not willing.

I do hope that does not happen in Ashes and the Node-guilds will somehow "get along".
And that no Cringelords can hold a server in a chokehold for who knows how long?
F°°° I did it again.
This became a "concern post" didn't it?
Dayum. ^^

There are some big miscalculations here in your comment.
The players in WOW are not engaging in PvP because THE PVP THERE SUCK! Yes WOTLK expansion was the last where the pvp was actually good, fun, engaging, tactical, skill based, diverse.... By Cataclism it became much worse. and every next expansion is making it even worse.

In League of legends - no one argues that the players are not toxic. BUT... did you ever ask yourself why is this? The answer is quit simple actually. Its because you play with RANDOM players that you cant do anything about. you cant kick them from group, you cant leave the game, you are just stuck with those players for 30-40 min. There are mods where you choose the players you play with, and even if they are not your real life friends, the toxicity is much much much less. And even if there is someone toxic you can just kick him from the group.

I have never played Sea of Thieves. So i wont comment on it at all.

And 1 last thing. The PVE model WoW has is the most boring sh*t ever. Like Blizard releases new expansion. You get the 10 levels to cap for 1 day. After this you do the same dungeons and raids over and over and over and over again. Like the first 2-3 times you do them its fun. After this you engage in some Mythic+ where the same dungeon feels bit different, which again keeps it somewhat interesting for another few runs. And then what? you do the dungeon for the 83th time. you know the place and count of every mob in the dungeon. You playing like a robot to increase your best time of the run with 1 sec.
So if you like this sort of mindless grind, then you gotta come in love with AOC PvX dynamic model.

koltovince

Knotti wrote: »

What direction would you like to see your server take?

Demise in Ashes will come in the form of PvP or lack of goods. Would you like to see your guild be involved more in PvP and conquering map? Attacking your neighboring players will have benefits in the way of spoils and land. Also potentially shrinking the area of the game you will have access to and making the collection of goods challenging. War among players will be expensive. Not only will it damage the person you’re attacking but your equipment decays as well. Having the goods to create a head of steam for a war effort will take time. A server like this would be chaos; where some people would thrive.

I have an example from my NW experience about PVP bringing prosperous. Didn't know this before my guild picked a server but apparently an infamous racist streamer and his community picked our server and a specific faction (I think yellow) and this caused a coalition of various players working together to always attack the yellow faction. Prosperity came in the form of PVP because players worked together to fight the guild. Players would build up the purple and green towns with solid control instead of the battleground areas because the yellow faction would always max all taxes and never build anything. Any time the players PVP'd the yellow faction to control an area, it actively brought prosperity to the area when they won.

As for the direction I would like, given I would have no control over the way it goes, I would hope for a server open to bartering before deciding to murder each other. Guild politics would add spice to the game instead of just big guilds zerging without care.

Flanker

Chaliux wrote: »

So you should play a soulslike game?

Theoretically - yeah. Practically, I don't really like/play single-player games with a couple of rare exceptions that exist because solely because of my nostalgia

Knotti

Managing a governance among a coalition of guilds will be a very fortifying and lucrative. So is conquering the land around you; though spreading your production out and increasing lands while being on the offensive can have its downfalls. PVP will always exist. Pirates and mercenaries are always going to be roaming around. There will always be guild disputes that escalate. But something that will empower you greatly is to network and trade with other people to get the goods and benefit from the content in their area of the game. I’m not saying that everyone has to be totally kumbaya; just partially. If the server norm is to attack and ask questions later, it won’t be nonfunctional or unfruitful; perhaps it will be the most progressive server. But as I see it a server with a more collective overall effort throughout (most but obviously not all) will most likely create greater empires.

Ungohil

Flanker wrote: »

Chaliux wrote: »

So you should play a soulslike game?

Theoretically - yeah. Practically, I don't really like/play single-player games with a couple of rare exceptions that exist because solely because of my nostalgia

Offtopic: Understandable. The first cut is the deepest, usually. Your cut was L2 from teenager (?) until mid/end of 20? So, fully understandable (or did I get your „nostalgia“ wrong?)

I love fantasy RPGs, both singleplayer and multiplayer (the main aspect is the type of game and setting, not the social one, thats secondary for me, as I would not play a game I dont like in setting but my friends would do, that alone wouldnt convince me to waste my rare time). I‘ve played nearly all (popular, well known, good) Singleplayer Fantasy RPGs during the point where I started to play on PCs, and that was up from the point they were available for private use, my father bought one family pc that time, and it was placed in the living room for all of us.

Otr

Knotti wrote: »

What direction would you like to see your server take?

Demise

Aszkalon

Githal wrote: »

The players in WOW are not engaging in PvP because THE PVP THERE SUCK! Yes WOTLK expansion was the last where the pvp was actually good, fun, engaging, tactical, skill based, diverse.... By Cataclism it became much worse. and every next expansion is making it even worse.

Accurate actually.

These Days and since many Years already by now - > PvP is mostly a stupid Stun-Festival. In Eight to Nine out of Ten Encounters with Enemy Players on a BG, i am immediately showered with Stuns,

leaving me at 50% to 30% HP most of the time by the Moment i can move again, forcing me effectively to do my very best trying to retreat somewhat, to prolong my Opponents wasting their time with me before i die.

Sometimes i get saved by allied Players who actually remember they can heal me.

When You " WIN Battlegrounds " by putting up a complete Shitshow instead of actual "Fights" like many Years ago -> you just have no Choice but to notice how things took a heavy turn for the worse.

Githal wrote: »

In League of legends - no one argues that the players are not toxic. BUT... did you ever ask yourself why is this? The answer is quit simple actually. Its because you play with RANDOM players that you cant do anything about. you cant kick them from group, you cant leave the game, you are just stuck with those players for 30-40 min. There are mods where you choose the players you play with, and even if they are not your real life friends, the toxicity is much much much less.

A Game which must be significantly modded to be Fun, is the Mistake in itself. But i am happy for LoL Players who can do that. Actually everyone should have these Options to modify their Game.

Githal wrote: »

I have never played Sea of Thieves. So i wont comment on it at all.

Long Story short -> was still mostly nice around 3 Years ago.

Then,
became more and more toxic as Time went on -> and the last Three, Four, Five Updates or so -> there came mostly only Contents patched into the Game -> which fueled the toxic Part of the Game so that the ("mostly toxic") PvP-Community is more motivated to play the Game.

One of the few, coolest Things to unlock -> were LITERALLY locked behind Hours of Hours of HOURS of engaging in toxic, cringe - and Unnerving, pesky - and tedious Matches.

Yes. Looking at the Hourglass Mode/Warmode. Getting the Ghost- and Skeleton-Curse is barely worth it, when You are put up for many Hours against disgusting Kids between Eight to Twelve Years who tell You over their Hotmics that You can s°°° their D°°°s because they are pissed when they can not kill You for Allegiance like a helpless NPC.

Seriously, this Game has the most revolting People playing PvP.

Githal wrote: »

And 1 last thing. The PVE model WoW has is the most boring sh*t ever. Like Blizard releases new expansion. You get the 10 levels to cap for 1 day.

You play to fast if You really do the new 10 Levels in a Day.

But even if we stretch it to a Week or so -> it is still kinda short. Yes.

Githal wrote: »

After this you do the same dungeons and raids over and over and over and over again. Like the first 2-3 times you do them its fun. After this you engage in some Mythic+ where the same dungeon feels bit different, which again keeps it somewhat interesting for another few runs.

And then what?

you do the dungeon for the 83th time. you know the place and count of every mob in the dungeon. You playing like a robot to increase your best time of the run with 1 sec.

So if you like this sort of mindless grind, then you gotta come in love with AOC PvX dynamic model.

Are You sure Ashes of Creation will be exactly like doing WoW Instance Runs and so on ? Because whenever i know one thing about Open World PvP with many Players,

then it is the fact that your Experience can always be vastly different and fresh. The Room for change and different Experiences is just there.

Of Course it would be kinda tedious if You are faced " Every - single - Day - again " with the same Group of try-hards, up to "toxic Try-hards", who try to subdue You and your Allies and your Node Day and Day again -> with the same, tiny Group that is just not up to the Task.

And that for some magical BS-Reason -> they think if they just keep long enough at it, you might cave in.

which usually never happens.

Never happened in Planetside Two. Why should it happen in Ashes of Creation ?

Otr

Note: I voted for Demise because the way how Prosperity was presented.
Risk vs Reward needs to be present. And resource scarcity.

Knotti

Both will be present on every server. It’s a question of whether the server will spin like a top or topple like Jenga. Resource consumption will create scarcity; highly developed areas will offer that.

Aszkalon

Otr wrote: »

Note: I voted for Demise because the way how Prosperity was presented.
Risk vs Reward needs to be present. And resource scarcity.

And hence,

the only way this Game can and should be played, is : - - - - - > there will be Prosperity AND Demise around !!

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