CROW3 wrote: » Serukkq wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Try it and see how it goes. 🤷♂️ Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players. Come and take it! 😈 I mean, I applaud the moxy, but red players will have increasingly reduced stats, and will have a chance to drop their equipped gear. You can charge in very bravely, and die very quickly.
Serukkq wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Try it and see how it goes. 🤷♂️ Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players. Come and take it! 😈
CROW3 wrote: » Try it and see how it goes. 🤷♂️ Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players.
daveywavey wrote: » draugris wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Hi there, Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Thanks Well, it´s actually funny reading this. Tbh I don´t believe you, you don´t want to be competitive, you just want to win, which is fine, but please don´t call it competition. Haha yeah, becoming Corrupted isn't about "competition", cos it's just them killing somebody that isn't fighting back. There's no competition there.
draugris wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Hi there, Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Thanks Well, it´s actually funny reading this. Tbh I don´t believe you, you don´t want to be competitive, you just want to win, which is fine, but please don´t call it competition.
Serukka wrote: » Hi there, Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Thanks
Githal wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Githal wrote: » The design behind the corruption is that you get reward from killing a green guy that you know he has a lot materials for example which you can steal. and the risk is becoming red. It is not designed to live as a red player. There is no reward in staying red all the time. Staying red is the risk. Losing your gear, harsher death punishment i agree with it all. Do you agree however that you also should be nerfed combat wise? I feel like that is a bit lame. Good question. While i understand the logic behind this nerfing. Which is so a camper cant kill you 80. I dont think that nerfing should be the way it is done. Like If Bounty hunting is earning big rewards, If someone is camping you, all you will need to do is wait 20 min, and there will be bounty hunter that is here to claim the camper head. so ye.. i also think the nerfing is lame.
Serukka wrote: » Githal wrote: » The design behind the corruption is that you get reward from killing a green guy that you know he has a lot materials for example which you can steal. and the risk is becoming red. It is not designed to live as a red player. There is no reward in staying red all the time. Staying red is the risk. Losing your gear, harsher death punishment i agree with it all. Do you agree however that you also should be nerfed combat wise? I feel like that is a bit lame.
Githal wrote: » The design behind the corruption is that you get reward from killing a green guy that you know he has a lot materials for example which you can steal. and the risk is becoming red. It is not designed to live as a red player. There is no reward in staying red all the time. Staying red is the risk.
Otr wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Much of the push back above is about individuals griefing greens as a ‘bad guy.’ I’m more concerned about large guilds just mopping the field of any greens not in their guild. That scale of griefing will cause mass attrition of the pve player segment, and Ashes will be relegated to an MO2-esque existence. The corruption system is the weight bearing beam holding up the PvX house. You may not get to live your best life as an rp criminal, but that may come at trade-off of hundreds of players sticking around. I can’t even guess how many subsystems will need to be in place to constantly adjust the pendulum of corruption over time. Steven's gamble is that there is a middle way between PvP and PvE and many players will like it. With the MO2 player count, a singe server with 85 nodes cannot function. Balancing will be decided by the data gathered during Alpha 2.
CROW3 wrote: » Much of the push back above is about individuals griefing greens as a ‘bad guy.’ I’m more concerned about large guilds just mopping the field of any greens not in their guild. That scale of griefing will cause mass attrition of the pve player segment, and Ashes will be relegated to an MO2-esque existence. The corruption system is the weight bearing beam holding up the PvX house. You may not get to live your best life as an rp criminal, but that may come at trade-off of hundreds of players sticking around. I can’t even guess how many subsystems will need to be in place to constantly adjust the pendulum of corruption over time.
Serukka wrote: » Dying as a red player
Slipree wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Hi there, I know the game is a lot wider in scope than PvP. However I always enjoyed PvP in any game, especially if there is a risk/reward factor involved. Not just killing each other over and over again and the only punishment being waiting a few seconds to be able to respawn. Hence I always gravitate towards mmo’s with the light or heavy focus on PvP. This game has a PvX philosophy. From reading I gather the punishment/reward for becoming red currently I dont think PvP will be frequent outside of event. Do you think if chosen, a red path, will it actually be viable? Can I live somewhere? Should it even be viable? Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Personally I hope that towards the end game red playstyle will be a viable option. Where you and your friends can become elite red bandits that live for the thrill of a good fight. I also know there are other games that cater more towards this ‘need’ or ‘playstyle’ But just wanted to hear what other people think. I mostly read negative or adverse opinions towards PvP in this community. While I personally would advocate for more of it. Thanks i just started checking out the forums/bought alpha 2 myself, and I have noticed the same. For a game that promotes pvp, it seems a lot of the player base is not about that life. At least that is the impression i get from the forums. there are some who argue in our favor, but most do not. seems a pretty big disconnect. most are asking the devs to change arbitrary things to fit whatever flavor, or larp they are going for. for example, if you are red, and are attacked by a green player, they do not flag to you and to defend yourself you take more punishment. Also any CC will not work on that green player. this does the opposite of promote open world pvp. it is not how a pvx game should operate imo. you wont be able to trade i hear as well....not sure if thats an in game mechanic or not, but if you are in a clan and your clan cannot even trade you, seems silly at best. what if your whole clan wanted to be red? seems this is care bear light to me.
Serukka wrote: » Hi there, I know the game is a lot wider in scope than PvP. However I always enjoyed PvP in any game, especially if there is a risk/reward factor involved. Not just killing each other over and over again and the only punishment being waiting a few seconds to be able to respawn. Hence I always gravitate towards mmo’s with the light or heavy focus on PvP. This game has a PvX philosophy. From reading I gather the punishment/reward for becoming red currently I dont think PvP will be frequent outside of event. Do you think if chosen, a red path, will it actually be viable? Can I live somewhere? Should it even be viable? Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Personally I hope that towards the end game red playstyle will be a viable option. Where you and your friends can become elite red bandits that live for the thrill of a good fight. I also know there are other games that cater more towards this ‘need’ or ‘playstyle’ But just wanted to hear what other people think. I mostly read negative or adverse opinions towards PvP in this community. While I personally would advocate for more of it. Thanks
Slipree wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Serukkq wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Try it and see how it goes. 🤷♂️ Keep in mind it’s the only way you can drop gear tonothwr players. Come and take it! 😈 I mean, I applaud the moxy, but red players will have increasingly reduced stats, and will have a chance to drop their equipped gear. You can charge in very bravely, and die very quickly. imo game should be full loot. otherwise a player crafting driven economy doesnt work. items need to be lootable and have limited durability. this isnt an mmo where you grind a set of gear and wear it forever, or until the new expansion that makes it obsolete. More ultima online, and less world of warcraft.
Aszkalon wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Dying as a red player Fixed the Title. Jokes aside. " Living " as a red Player means You are probably being hunted all the time -> until your Corruption wears off. If a single Kill (Murder) can for Example let you being flagged for half an Hour, then OHOHOHO boooiii You better have Allies or can ride fast and are well-known with the Terrain. Because " dying " as a Red Player means You are probably losing more Ressources than You got from murdering a green Player.
Caeryl wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Dying as a red player Fixed the Title. Jokes aside. " Living " as a red Player means You are probably being hunted all the time -> until your Corruption wears off. If a single Kill (Murder) can for Example let you being flagged for half an Hour, then OHOHOHO boooiii You better have Allies or can ride fast and are well-known with the Terrain. Because " dying " as a Red Player means You are probably losing more Ressources than You got from murdering a green Player. Nah, even if you were on a murder spree 100 PKs in, you always end up ahead in resources from where you started due to it only dropping percentages, rather than flat amounts. If start with 0 resources or glint, kill 1 green holding 100 leather and 100 glint, I get ~25 leather and ~25 glint. Maybe I kill 10 greens and get over 200 of each, which is the point where Steven is planning for reds to really feel that combat nerf. Even if someone kills me dead after the 1 PK, I'm still not losing all of what I nabbed off the green I killed. The only big loss is the exp debt, which can then be worked off without worry because now I'm also green again, and I'm up a handful of resources I otherwise wouldn't have. Aka, a high level gatherer who can get the rare things most players can't is probably a juicy PK target even if you plan on dying after, because you don't have to level that Gathering line to loot something rare off their body, and unless it rounds up when determining items dropped, you'll always have one or two of the rare things still in your pocket when you die. Now, of course high level Gatherers will almost certainly turn to beat your head in if given the chance when you interrupt their farming to try and take their rare stuff, because it's valuable and worth protecting, but even in that case it's still worth trying your luck for the good stuff.
Slipree wrote: » Otr wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » Much of the push back above is about individuals griefing greens as a ‘bad guy.’ I’m more concerned about large guilds just mopping the field of any greens not in their guild. That scale of griefing will cause mass attrition of the pve player segment, and Ashes will be relegated to an MO2-esque existence. The corruption system is the weight bearing beam holding up the PvX house. You may not get to live your best life as an rp criminal, but that may come at trade-off of hundreds of players sticking around. I can’t even guess how many subsystems will need to be in place to constantly adjust the pendulum of corruption over time. Steven's gamble is that there is a middle way between PvP and PvE and many players will like it. With the MO2 player count, a singe server with 85 nodes cannot function. Balancing will be decided by the data gathered during Alpha 2. imo he's just going to alienate both sides. we all know which side has the more people, hence all games eventually cave to the almighty $$$$. hopefully we will get a couple of months of decent pvp before the inevitable happens.
Depraved wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Dying as a red player Fixed the Title. Jokes aside. " Living " as a red Player means You are probably being hunted all the time -> until your Corruption wears off. If a single Kill (Murder) can for Example let you being flagged for half an Hour, then OHOHOHO boooiii You better have Allies or can ride fast and are well-known with the Terrain. Because " dying " as a Red Player means You are probably losing more Ressources than You got from murdering a green Player. Nah, even if you were on a murder spree 100 PKs in, you always end up ahead in resources from where you started due to it only dropping percentages, rather than flat amounts. If start with 0 resources or glint, kill 1 green holding 100 leather and 100 glint, I get ~25 leather and ~25 glint. Maybe I kill 10 greens and get over 200 of each, which is the point where Steven is planning for reds to really feel that combat nerf. Even if someone kills me dead after the 1 PK, I'm still not losing all of what I nabbed off the green I killed. The only big loss is the exp debt, which can then be worked off without worry because now I'm also green again, and I'm up a handful of resources I otherwise wouldn't have. Aka, a high level gatherer who can get the rare things most players can't is probably a juicy PK target even if you plan on dying after, because you don't have to level that Gathering line to loot something rare off their body, and unless it rounds up when determining items dropped, you'll always have one or two of the rare things still in your pocket when you die. Now, of course high level Gatherers will almost certainly turn to beat your head in if given the chance when you interrupt their farming to try and take their rare stuff, because it's valuable and worth protecting, but even in that case it's still worth trying your luck for the good stuff. you will drop your gear which is worth more than the resources. also, the percentage could go up with more corruption up to 100% or 99%
nanfoodle wrote: » Read the first two pages of this thread. I get you like PKing and that's a role you can fill but advancement will be limited. You will be the enemy. When you turn red, a dot will show up on the map of where you are. People will have skill lines that make PK easier to kill. You will be debuffed for every green you kill. Soon enough a level 1 will solo you like a spider on a log. People will hunt you because your an easy kill that's full of loot. You will drop 4x more glint and crafting supplies. On top of that gear. If you want to be a PK, hunt purples. That will win you gains. Edit: I loth the idea of PKing people who flag green. They had made it clear they don't want to PvP. Wanting to hunt players that don't want to PvP. Should be punished fully. I will hunt PKers without impunity.
Caeryl wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Dying as a red player Fixed the Title. Jokes aside. " Living " as a red Player means You are probably being hunted all the time -> until your Corruption wears off. If a single Kill (Murder) can for Example let you being flagged for half an Hour, then OHOHOHO boooiii You better have Allies or can ride fast and are well-known with the Terrain. Because " dying " as a Red Player means You are probably losing more Ressources than You got from murdering a green Player. Nah, even if you were on a murder spree 100 PKs in, you always end up ahead in resources from where you started due to it only dropping percentages, rather than flat amounts. If start with 0 resources or glint, kill 1 green holding 100 leather and 100 glint, I get ~25 leather and ~25 glint. Maybe I kill 10 greens and get over 200 of each, which is the point where Steven is planning for reds to really feel that combat nerf. Even if someone kills me dead after the 1 PK, I'm still not losing all of what I nabbed off the green I killed. The only big loss is the exp debt, which can then be worked off without worry because now I'm also green again, and I'm up a handful of resources I otherwise wouldn't have. Aka, a high level gatherer who can get the rare things most players can't is probably a juicy PK target even if you plan on dying after, because you don't have to level that Gathering line to loot something rare off their body, and unless it rounds up when determining items dropped, you'll always have one or two of the rare things still in your pocket when you die. Now, of course high level Gatherers will almost certainly turn to beat your head in if given the chance when you interrupt their farming to try and take their rare stuff, because it's valuable and worth protecting, but even in that case it's still worth trying your luck for the good stuff. you will drop your gear which is worth more than the resources. also, the percentage could go up with more corruption up to 100% or 99% You might drop gear, but it's not likely at just one PK unless you have a deep history of PK that would start your corruption penalties off higher. Also, if you plan on PKing semi-often, you'd have an alternate gear setup that isn't so difficult to replace on the chance you drop something. PK doesn't require exceptionally good gear (since the other player by definition isn't fighting back), so wearing something BiS for some solo resource theft would fall under the 'idiocy and poor planning' scenario that deserves to get punished.
Caeryl wrote: »
Depraved wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » Serukka wrote: » Dying as a red player Fixed the Title. Jokes aside. " Living " as a red Player means You are probably being hunted all the time -> until your Corruption wears off. If a single Kill (Murder) can for Example let you being flagged for half an Hour, then OHOHOHO boooiii You better have Allies or can ride fast and are well-known with the Terrain. Because " dying " as a Red Player means You are probably losing more Ressources than You got from murdering a green Player. Nah, even if you were on a murder spree 100 PKs in, you always end up ahead in resources from where you started due to it only dropping percentages, rather than flat amounts. If start with 0 resources or glint, kill 1 green holding 100 leather and 100 glint, I get ~25 leather and ~25 glint. Maybe I kill 10 greens and get over 200 of each, which is the point where Steven is planning for reds to really feel that combat nerf. Even if someone kills me dead after the 1 PK, I'm still not losing all of what I nabbed off the green I killed. The only big loss is the exp debt, which can then be worked off without worry because now I'm also green again, and I'm up a handful of resources I otherwise wouldn't have. Aka, a high level gatherer who can get the rare things most players can't is probably a juicy PK target even if you plan on dying after, because you don't have to level that Gathering line to loot something rare off their body, and unless it rounds up when determining items dropped, you'll always have one or two of the rare things still in your pocket when you die. Now, of course high level Gatherers will almost certainly turn to beat your head in if given the chance when you interrupt their farming to try and take their rare stuff, because it's valuable and worth protecting, but even in that case it's still worth trying your luck for the good stuff. you will drop your gear which is worth more than the resources. also, the percentage could go up with more corruption up to 100% or 99% You might drop gear, but it's not likely at just one PK unless you have a deep history of PK that would start your corruption penalties off higher. Also, if you plan on PKing semi-often, you'd have an alternate gear setup that isn't so difficult to replace on the chance you drop something. PK doesn't require exceptionally good gear (since the other player by definition isn't fighting back), so wearing something BiS for some solo resource theft would fall under the 'idiocy and poor planning' scenario that deserves to get punished. if you are in crap gear, the other guy could just kill you? you cant predict when someone will retaliate or not. a strategy you could use, however, would be that you wear the crap gear and you have a friend or two with you. your target wont flag or he will die 2/3 vs 1
Aszkalon wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Don't forget that your " Gear " can drop as well when You get killed as a corrupted Player ... ...
Slipree wrote: » Punishing pvp because of griefers won’t work. Griefers always find ways to grief. They work around systems, not in spite of them. Being red should be hard, but you should be able to defend yourself regardless. Not flagging when attacking a red player, and not being able to be cc’d is bad mechanics.
Caeryl wrote: » Slipree wrote: » Punishing pvp because of griefers won’t work. Griefers always find ways to grief. They work around systems, not in spite of them. Being red should be hard, but you should be able to defend yourself regardless. Not flagging when attacking a red player, and not being able to be cc’d is bad mechanics. It's not punishing PvP, just PK Those systems exist as they do for a reason. Non-combatants being immune to player-sourced CC is in place because it's proven a problem to allow it in other games that use a similar system. I don't have the links on hand, but you can find videos of lockdown kills on greens that gave them no chance to flag up or escape, which is something they don't want to have as an option in Ashes. After all, if a green is running away, then you've achieved the goal that PK would accomplish, which is getting them out of an area you want to lay claim on. There's no mechanical difference between trying to CC a green to keep them from running away, and trying to CC them out of 'self-defense' as a red. There's no way to prevent one but allow another, and so neither are allowed. Edit: Ultimately it's on you to improve your skill and adapt to the rules of the game
