Big Guilds Take Over

Hello everyone!

i've been having this one thing in mind for long while now and since we're close to Alpha 2 and later on the launch of the game i think it's fair to see people's opinions and POVs regarding this particular matter.

What do you think about mega guilds/streamer/youtuber guilds doing a complete take over on a server? baring in mind the possibly for ruining the node or the general experience like some other games that released over the recent years

with all honesty this may or may not ruin the experience for people. since these guilds tend to sometimes be toxic or just a bunch of in game trolls or just because they're "celebs" they get away from most things.

even smaller guilds end up being over shadowed in all events and they get nothing for participation or winning until they either join the bigger ones or quit playing.

so yeah. i can't help but wonder about such thing. am i the only one thinking about these things here?
i also have a few possible solutions for such thing if the devs ever want to know or have already an implemented system for such thing

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CROW3

Hm… i think Freeholds will play a major factor. It’s very hard to get a freehold, so Freehold owners will have the most incentive to stabilize their node. Most effective way is to have everyone in the node organized and focused on defending the node from attacking nodes. The more angst about losing your home the more energy invested in expanding the guild to keep a strong defense.

I think this will lead to long periods of mega guilds controlling a node, but I don’t think a single mega guild will control a server - because humans.

Githal

CROW3 wrote: »

Hm… i think Freeholds will play a major factor. It’s very hard to get a freehold, so Freehold owners will have the most incentive to stabilize their node. Most effective way is to have everyone in the node organized and focused on defending the node from attacking nodes. The more angst about losing your home the more energy invested in expanding the guild to keep a strong defense.

I think this will lead to long periods of mega guilds controlling a node, but I don’t think a single mega guild will control a server - because humans.

Ye no one thinks 1 guild will control the server. The Map is too big for this.
The problem at hand is multiple zergs controlling the server.

CROW3

Githal wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Hm… i think Freeholds will play a major factor. It’s very hard to get a freehold, so Freehold owners will have the most incentive to stabilize their node. Most effective way is to have everyone in the node organized and focused on defending the node from attacking nodes. The more angst about losing your home the more energy invested in expanding the guild to keep a strong defense.

I think this will lead to long periods of mega guilds controlling a node, but I don’t think a single mega guild will control a server - because humans.

Ye no one thinks 1 guild will control the server. The Map is too big for this.
The problem at hand is multiple zergs controlling the server.

From everything I’ve heard & seen during development - multiple massive guilds controlling nodes and duking it out is a desired, designed outcome by Intrepid.

Nickthefoxable

CROW3 wrote: »

Hm… i think Freeholds will play a major factor. It’s very hard to get a freehold, so Freehold owners will have the most incentive to stabilize their node. Most effective way is to have everyone in the node organized and focused on defending the node from attacking nodes. The more angst about losing your home the more energy invested in expanding the guild to keep a strong defense.

I think this will lead to long periods of mega guilds controlling a node, but I don’t think a single mega guild will control a server - because humans.

100%, power will change hands as players experience burnout, ADHD brain to other games, etc. I do believe Node conflict will become a Factions game. Individual guilds should have impact, and I hope Intrepid insures they do. But I have experienced in numerous times once a faction is formed, the only way to compete is to make a stronger, smarter faction but then who stops them? Hence, calling it a factions game.

This game places a heavy emphasis on socialization. Solo play may be possible but is not the intended route. If you hang out in smaller groups you'll need to make deals, use diplomacy, or rise in power. It's apart of the core game play loop it seems.

Nickthefoxable

This game wont be for everyone. With the game intrinsically being a Node/Faction system, power is king. social skills are needed to claim the highest seats. If you aren't cut out for that position, find someone who is and tag along with them. If you intend to play the game against the way its built and be in the minority, you will have to make you own fun (which is possible) and deal with the repercussions and drawbacks

Nickthefoxable

Nickthefoxable wrote: »

This game wont be for everyone. With the game intrinsically being a Node/Faction system, power is king. social skills are needed to claim the highest seats. If you aren't cut out for that position, find someone who is and tag along with them. If you intend to play the game against the way its built and be in the minority, you will have to make you own fun (which is possible) and deal with the repercussions and drawbacks

I personally do both, build up my own faction starting small. enjoying the slow growth. Become a sizable threat on the server, and then advertise the guild, powerspike, and take claim to something for a time. after I've had my fill managing everything I go back to casual game play

Slipree

Zerg guilds are usually bad players, and loot piñatas. You should be excited for Zerg groups. Just farm the outskirts of them. Poke the beehive, draw them out, separate them due to some classes/players better at mobility, then spring your ambush, kill some, and repeat.

Make a mercenary clan of good pvpers that can be hired to show up and help other clans fight Zerg’s as well.

Taleof2Cities

Slipree wrote: »

Just farm the outskirts of them. Poke the beehive, draw them out, separate them due to some classes/players better at mobility, then spring your ambush, kill some, and repeat.

You can do that on any server, Slipree … regardless of whether the server is controlled by a mega-guild, zerg guild, or no guild at all.

The topic of the thread is the detriment that a mega-guild would place (if any) on smaller guilds and solo players … such as node politics and events.

Fantmx

Megaguilds and guild alliances are part of the design.

This would fall into the risk vs reward category.

Githal

Slipree wrote: »

Zerg guilds are usually bad players, and loot piñatas. You should be excited for Zerg groups. Just farm the outskirts of them. Poke the beehive, draw them out, separate them due to some classes/players better at mobility, then spring your ambush, kill some, and repeat.

Make a mercenary clan of good pvpers that can be hired to show up and help other clans fight Zerg’s as well.

You have no idea what you are talking about right? Never played vs zerg group?
In AOC especially, you will try to draw the zerg, and you will find out there are 150 rogues behind you that will oneshot your whole group before you even react. There is the Tank class Pull ability that the moment you get in range and he pull you into the zerg you are dead.

But guess people should experience it first before they come to my opinion that zerg should be removed from the game. The result of lack of vision is talking bs...

If you want to feel what playing vs zerg is- go play Throne and liberty. Dont join zerg group and try to get ANY objective with a small group. (Hint: after dozens of unsuccessful attempts you will end up farming daily quests and pvp disabled events only till you quit the game after few days)

Githal

Fantmx wrote: »

Megaguilds and guild alliances are part of the design.

This would fall into the risk vs reward category.

And what is the risk there?

Sathrago

this might not go over well but I feel like they should make it so that alliance members are not safe from alliance member aoe damage. What this does is reduce the amount of zerging they can potentially do. Cant exactly throw a wad of aoes into an enemy if your allies just pushed in, now can you? I mean you can but I dont think they will be allies for much longer.

I would only do this for aoes creating a pseudo friendly fire atmosphere that makes it so that alliances will more than likely spread their zone of influence making them easier to engage with, and requires a much larger amount of coordination to pull off alliance group objectives.

This would actually also encourage the devs to make aoes deadlier and more impactful. meaning smaller groups do not have to worry about alliance members dying in the crossfire, and can focus on doing large area damage to the zerging mega guilds.

Azherae

Githal wrote: »

Fantmx wrote: »

Megaguilds and guild alliances are part of the design.

This would fall into the risk vs reward category.

And what is the risk there?

For any individual guild member, it is technically the risk of not getting any direct material reward at all, for a longer time.

Ashes does not simply hand out additional meaningful loot simply for participation, so it lowers the chance of any specific person getting something they want.

As long as the overall chance of outsiders/smaller guilds getting something instead of the big guild isn't zero (basically, no true monopolization of content), then the guild members are risking slower growth in a particular aspect of the game.

Godbrithil

I have major concerns about that as well. There are some guilds that host well over 1k players. It will be hard to compete against something like that, whether in open PvP, node wars, or even node elections.

Zehlan

People want smaller guilds to unite against a zerg this can work but usually foolish because you will lack the coordination/experience of a mega guilds although this tactic would be good for eliminating nodes. The great thing about zergs even smaller ones is you hear about them long before they can get anywhere. The smart thing is to move out of the way unless it cannot be helped again node warfare because zergs are about rolling people and if they don't get action they will disappear quite quickly. Don't try to play a mega guilds game!

Small guilds need to use small tactics avoid the zerg, attack their caravans, make raids into their territory strip their resources so they don't grow back for a long time forcing them to spread out thinning their numbers as they get further away from home making their groups more manageable and evening the odds. Good diplomacy will be important so will spying. A tactic i use is to friend every player in an enemy guild and find out when their members mainly play and when almost no one is online attack their infrastructure. You can also use hacks for their comms see who is online and what not if you really looking to get an edge that was huge in EvE. I believe if i remember correctly from worst to best for comms security was discord , ventrilo , teamspeak , mumble for anybody worried about that, I sure would be.

You will never stop big guilds from forming it's human nature to ask intrepid to punish big guilds is unfair and selfish. It is also in people's nature to gang up against someone bigger! In DAoC it was always the two smaller realms vs the big one and it was constantly changing who was the big one. Even New World had big guilds and it quite quickly turned into organized smaller guilds attacking beating them back. I do agree it makes me nervous with 1k guilds but until I get some playtime in and see how some things work i am not going to stress over it.

brenvy

Should be interesting

Veeshan

The larger world size will have some push back on what a large zerg can actually do i feel.

Currently from the word of people in A2 it takes like 45 minutes to go from one side of the riverland to the other via mount so realistically a zergs effectiveness will somewhat break down the further they go from there home node.
I think you will see zergs exert power probaly 30 minutes trip their node the guild calls home it definetly wont be as world wide as modern MMO with instant travel everywhere. Like you kill somone on the outskirts of their "territory" it will take awhile for them to be able to hunt down that area.

RedLeader1

I have said this on a few threads, when this concern has been raised, there is no indication yet that "As many as possible" is the optimum number of citizens in a node. And if they are not all members of the same node then they may not be able to participate in key events such as node wars.

If there is node overcrowding, housing may be excessively expensive, services may have long queues, and consumption of goods may exceed production, or raw material supply. Because it is a PvX game it may not be ALL about the PvP battle, the environment may matter even in PvP.

If you put 1K on a single node, I doubt 500 of them will be doing much in the way of PvE, and even in PvP given that there is player collision, are they going to get anywhere near a fight, it will take about 20minutes to get them all through a doorway!?

Korela

Azherae wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

Fantmx wrote: »

Megaguilds and guild alliances are part of the design.

This would fall into the risk vs reward category.

And what is the risk there?

For any individual guild member, it is technically the risk of not getting any direct material reward at all, for a longer time.

Ashes does not simply hand out additional meaningful loot simply for participation, so it lowers the chance of any specific person getting something they want.

As long as the overall chance of outsiders/smaller guilds getting something instead of the big guild isn't zero (basically, no true monopolization of content), then the guild members are risking slower growth in a particular aspect of the game.

The zerg receives rare loot --> the zerg leader arranges an auction for this loot between the zerglings --> the highest bidder gets the loot, and the bid is divided equally among the zerglings.
If the average bet share over the time of participation in an event with rare loot is equal to or greater than the other income of the zergling over the same time, the zergling will be happy to participate in such events. Given the low chance of losing, this can be considered an almost guaranteed profit. I saw this idea implemented in practice (from the opposite side) in L2 in battles for epic jewelry.
I just wanted to share my experience and hear your thoughts on this matter

Belluccii

Sipping Coffee While Looking At The Forum Unfold From A Discussion To A Revolutionary Army

Good. Good. It seems that you guys are a bunch of glorious OG MMO players. And with all honesty i really do believe that zergs need to be overthrown which dividing them works best. if all 5 leaders want the same thing they will fight over it. so we can have them deal with their own problems while you chip away their borders.

in the otherhand i believe since we're all on the same page on how we see things and want things, it would be nice to gather together and be in one guild. but highly unlikely considering the different servers we'd be in.

as for a solution i thought of regarding zergs and mega guilds. i think limiting guild members should a starting point to dividing them. second, alliances need to have a time limit, a reason for the alliance and a fee. something's gonna cost something. third, giving smaller guilds enough power as a collective to ruin mega guild EVEN if they're in the same faction. you can't rule over the server as zerg or mega guild without expecting consequences to your actions. fourth, GM limited involvement to put ruin to the balance of the world (depending if there's a team of D&D and WH40k Game Masters to help develop some major crisis/event).

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