Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place. So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things. I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything? Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use. He still never gave a logical reason why magic existed in the first place or what it was, and I think you’ll find he even struggled with that concept himself. It also didn’t come across the way he wanted it to and was more akin to abilities befitting the beings he created. Again it’s all just divine intervention regardless of if it was a god or a writer at the hands of it. You are literally playing a fantasy game and want a scientific logical reason for everything… then you deflect and try to bring Tolkien into it? What does that have to do with someone’s skin colour you literally make no sense, but I give up there’s no point talking to someone who’s just going to make me lose brain cells. Dolyem wrote: » To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race. Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell You are either literally contradicting yourself or have no clue what you’re talking about period. my dude...the point is even Tolkien himself believed his world would have benefited from explaining the magic of it better... Origins and explanations with details makes for better stories and lore. Otherwise you could get away with literally everything in the world youre making be gray blobs fighting gray blobs, for gray blob reasons, and gray blob ideals, all while never distinguishing between which gray blobs are the good or bad gray blobs, and which gray blobs are allies or enemies. Arguing for the sake of less story sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing and no real end goal.
Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place. So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things. I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything? Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use. He still never gave a logical reason why magic existed in the first place or what it was, and I think you’ll find he even struggled with that concept himself. It also didn’t come across the way he wanted it to and was more akin to abilities befitting the beings he created. Again it’s all just divine intervention regardless of if it was a god or a writer at the hands of it. You are literally playing a fantasy game and want a scientific logical reason for everything… then you deflect and try to bring Tolkien into it? What does that have to do with someone’s skin colour you literally make no sense, but I give up there’s no point talking to someone who’s just going to make me lose brain cells. Dolyem wrote: » To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race. Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell You are either literally contradicting yourself or have no clue what you’re talking about period.
Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place. So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things. I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything? Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use.
Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place. So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things. I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything?
Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place. So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things.
Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.
Dolyem wrote: » To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race. Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell
Dolyem wrote: » In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed. To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race. Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell
Ulderek wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Who told you that the entire race of Vaelune will have tanned/dark skin?? Kia Ora This is going a bit OT; but do you know if/think that the Nikua might have options for lighter skin and hair?
Dygz wrote: » Who told you that the entire race of Vaelune will have tanned/dark skin??
Dygz wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed. To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race. Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell In reality, Gods do not exist. On Verra, Gods do exist and the Gods truly created the inhabitants of Verra. You'll notice that Tulnar and Elves also do not exist in realit, but on Verra were also created by the Gods. "Lazy writing", ironically, is the laziest of critiques.
Gaettusk wrote: » Did someone just cite Tolkien as a justification for not fleshing out the world re: race descriptors? Lol, wake me up when people stop trying to use Tolkien as a strawman/misrepresent literature for weird MMO agendas. Or better yet, wake me up when it gets to talking about how Ashes should have barely veiled Catholic doctrine/straight up just writing a fantasy version of Genesis because that's what Tolkien did. 😂
Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Pendragxn wrote: » It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place. So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things. I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything? Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use. He still never gave a logical reason why magic existed in the first place or what it was, and I think you’ll find he even struggled with that concept himself. It also didn’t come across the way he wanted it to and was more akin to abilities befitting the beings he created. Again it’s all just divine intervention regardless of if it was a god or a writer at the hands of it. You are literally playing a fantasy game and want a scientific logical reason for everything… then you deflect and try to bring Tolkien into it? What does that have to do with someone’s skin colour you literally make no sense, but I give up there’s no point talking to someone who’s just going to make me lose brain cells. Dolyem wrote: » To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race. Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell You are either literally contradicting yourself or have no clue what you’re talking about period. my dude...the point is even Tolkien himself believed his world would have benefited from explaining the magic of it better... Origins and explanations with details makes for better stories and lore. Otherwise you could get away with literally everything in the world youre making be gray blobs fighting gray blobs, for gray blob reasons, and gray blob ideals, all while never distinguishing between which gray blobs are the good or bad gray blobs, and which gray blobs are allies or enemies. Arguing for the sake of less story sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing and no real end goal. I think you just need to use your imagination more and keep an open mind, I mean people don't always fight over just skin colour it’s usually outside factors, such as religion, politics and power even being afraid of what they don’t know. Again it’s a fantasy world as well as game so having logical explanations for everything when we can’t even explain our own true existence irl doesn’t make sense. People are allowed to have mixed skin colours or traits regardless of where they’re from in-game, and like I said if you can explain the logic or origin of magic to me then fine. However until that point it will all just be godly divine intervention in order to explain this fantasy world. I wouldn’t paint everything by so black and white as you are as that’s not how things work. You are returning through a portal into a magical land besieged by corruption bad energy, and you fight against this bad energy as an opposing force or potentially good energy. The difference between good or evil is just two opposing energies however how do you judge someone to be good or evil that’s based on perception plus your understanding. Everyone has a different perception, motivation or understandings so until you realise that you can’t paint everything black, white or grey.
Caeryl wrote: » Verra hasn't been inhabited by any of these races for a long, long time. Whether the variation has always been there, or only occurred after the apocalypse that sent them running off to another world, doesn't really matter. .
Dolyem wrote: » How is it a lazy critique? If the extent of your explanation of something is "just because", there isn't exactly a plethora of things to critique.
Dygz wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » How is it a lazy critique? If the extent of your explanation of something is "just because", there isn't exactly a plethora of things to critique. The explanation is not "just because". The explanation is that in this High Magic Fantasy setting Gods created people with the appearances They wanted - it's not "just natural biology" as it is in real life. "Lazy writing" is typically the critique of someone who just doesn't like the explanations given.
Gaettusk wrote: » Also, the Tulnar lore counters your "the Gods made it so" argument, in addition to the numerous in-game examples of evolutionary biology,genetics in taming/breeding, etc. It's not often one sees others taking a Creationism stance in a world of blatant evolution,but here we are.It's almost as ludicrous as one claiming that "bad writing" isn't valid literary criticism; it is, in fact, foundational to the field.
Dygz wrote: » Gaettusk wrote: » Also, the Tulnar lore counters your "the Gods made it so" argument, in addition to the numerous in-game examples of evolutionary biology,genetics in taming/breeding, etc. It's not often one sees others taking a Creationism stance in a world of blatant evolution,but here we are.It's almost as ludicrous as one claiming that "bad writing" isn't valid literary criticism; it is, in fact, foundational to the field. Evolution and Creationism co-exist in High Magic Fantasy settings. No one stated that Creationism inherently negates Evolution. The Creation of the Tulnar is not absent influence of magic and the Gods. And... we're done.
Gaettusk wrote: » Dygz wrote: » Gaettusk wrote: » Also, the Tulnar lore counters your "the Gods made it so" argument, in addition to the numerous in-game examples of evolutionary biology,genetics in taming/breeding, etc. It's not often one sees others taking a Creationism stance in a world of blatant evolution,but here we are.It's almost as ludicrous as one claiming that "bad writing" isn't valid literary criticism; it is, in fact, foundational to the field. Evolution and Creationism co-exist in High Magic Fantasy settings. No one stated that Creationism inherently negates Evolution. The Creation of the Tulnar is not absent influence of magic and the Gods. And... we're done. I'd tuck tail and run with that cop-out too. Evolution and Creationism coexist in the real world, too; they added in acceptance of evolution as an afterthought in various derivatives. Also, the Gods in Ashes didn't create the Tulnar biodiversity, the Tulnar did. Which begs the question really: why did the Gods other the Others for their desire to pervert the creation of the Gods, but the Tulnar who did the same are treated kindly? Also, I see why you pivoted to "just because" again; that 'but it's magic' fail back for illogical, inconsistent writing is a powerful drug; akin to the people who complain about dark-skinned races being evil or orcs being irl representations of certain groups—basically, people who bring their irl baggage to fantasy discussions to derail criticism. It's high fantasy, not high magic btw.
Dolyem wrote: » Personal opinion... the art looks like recent 5e DND art....and that isnt a compliment.
Dolyem wrote: » Still not hearing good reasons to not go in-depth with the lore. For some reason your only arguments is it isnt necessary, yet not one negative has been pitched for "more details in lore".
