Tank gameplay feedback (PvE)

I've only played for this weekend and the pre alpha 2 test at thursday.
but I've played A LOT of hours during said days - only got to level 14, so my opinions will probably change.
Only talking PvE

- Solo play is rough, I'm not sure if we need a buff, solo content is definitely doable as a tank, it just takes a long time duo to:
1: Low sustaine (Easiest fix would be buffing Shake it off by either reducing the cooldown or increasing the heal)
2: Low damage (An easy fix could just be nerfing the grit damage nerf we have by enabling it. But I found that enabling grit when playing solo is just not worth it, so I'd lean more towards a % damage increase for the tank instead. Either would work)

I don't think we're in desperate need for a buff, but I can see why many people complain about solo play for a tank.

With that being said, kiting with the shortbow is a great piece of advice I can give to players who struggle with the tank, you can avoid being hit by most mobs unless they have dashes or... are ranged, obviously.
Use trips when they reach you and keep kiting.

Mostly helps with solo mobs though and we struggle with multiple mobs or when there's casters involved, which might just be intended, but i'll give the feedback anyway.

- For group play I think the tank is in a really good spot.
The early levels can be a bit rough in terms of tankiness, but when you get the gear slots filled and reach level 12, the tank feels amazing to play.

- Our damage abilities cost a lot of mana, I'd personally like to see them being reduced in price.

- The tankiness is great and we have a good amount of crowd control.

- We have useful and meaningful abilities.

I really enjoy the tank, it's very fun

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Podgnil

Victard wrote: »

I've only played for this weekend and the pre alpha 2 test at thursday.
but I've played A LOT of hours during said days - only got to level 14, so my opinions will probably change.
Only talking PvE

- Solo play is rough, I'm not sure if we need a buff, solo content is definitely doable as a tank, it just takes a long time duo to:
1: Low sustaine (Easiest fix would be buffing Shake it off by either reducing the cooldown or increasing the heal)
2: Low damage (An easy fix could just be nerfing the grit damage nerf we have by enabling it. But I found that enabling grit when playing solo is just not worth it, so I'd lean more towards a % damage increase for the tank instead. Either would work)

I don't think we're in desperate need for a buff, but I can see why many people complain about solo play for a tank.

With that being said, kiting with the shortbow is a great piece of advice I can give to players who struggle with the tank, you can avoid being hit by most mobs unless they have dashes or... are ranged, obviously.
Use trips when they reach you and keep kiting.

Mostly helps with solo mobs though and we struggle with multiple mobs or when there's casters involved, which might just be intended, but i'll give the feedback anyway.

- For group play I think the tank is in a really good spot.
The early levels can be a bit rough in terms of tankiness, but when you get the gear slots filled and reach level 12, the tank feels amazing to play.

- Our damage abilities cost a lot of mana, I'd personally like to see them being reduced in price.

- The tankiness is great and we have a good amount of crowd control.

- We have useful and meaningful abilities.

I really enjoy the tank, it's very fun

I sincerely don’t understand such complaints; the tank copes well with its role as a group defender who takes damage. And to take a Character whose role is to protect your group without having a group and then say that he is weak solo... Moreover, there will be subclasses in which you can certainly get more damage if you want to go into an independent combat unit, while the baby lvls, the classes have not yet really opened up, and will only open up with the addition of second specializations.

Ludullu

I haven't gone above lvl7 cause I got fucked by the Death Walls twice and then ddos hit, but I loved soloing as a tank and I kinda disagree with almost all suggestions here.

I want the dmg to remain somewhat low (although Pulverize is massive and feels incredible). And you can heal up fairly quickly with a few rations, which would also keep you at permanent full mana, so you can just burst every mob down. I was usually killing 2-4 mobs and then healing up. Overall pace felt great.

Supports (and tank is a support) should not have dps. This is a party game, not a solo one. I already dislike that Clerics can both heal and kill. I don't want Tanks to be as soloable as that (ideally clerics would get nerfed as well).

RocketFarmer

My opinion is each archetype should excel at one thing and be capable of doing other things but be less efficient.

Which is why grouping is the most efficient. Solo is least efficient.

So far I think they have the Tank in a pretty nice sweet spot. Sure there will be tweaks when they make adjustments later, but right now it feels about right.

There is in a way a gap between levels 6-10 where the questing isn’t really there and you aren’t quite yet there to join your node and play more of a community role. Doesn’t really matter which archetype. Which is why I think the better strategy is to team up around level 6 as you head out of Lionhold with your first set of gear. Level 10 matters because of gear, and then I think from there the fun begins. Level 12 for tank is where they start to shine.

Now a disadvantage with pick up groups this past weekend was server reliability. I had grouped for a bit and felt the event had petered out (fewer goblins than the previous time I ran it). So I told the group I had to leave and literally a minute later it crashed. Explains where the goblins went. But that experience makes it harder for a pick up group; you just don’t know when they’ll be back, or you, or the whole server. I found myself playing all three US servers with multiple characters on each.

Secondary archetypes don’t come into the picture until much later, so telling someone they can pick a subclass isn’t even an argument. It simply doesn’t exist. Might as well tell the player to go team up with Firebrand.

Now what I’d call a bit of a grind is the gathering, processing and crafting. Each being progressively longer to level than the previous. Plus not having the economy features in place make it extremely inefficient. The real irony was on Saturday I had the option of play testing or going bass fishing (best lakes where I live). So obviously I picked the game, went out to a node to pick up something to do, and ended up getting assigned a task to catch bass in the Riverlands. Feedback: need to assign a weight to fish. A fish is a fish, but an 8 lb bass is a something else. So with 10 bass in about an hour, plus a crapload of blue gill, the experience is on easy mode compared to the real thing. All that said, the professions are a real time sink.

SirChancelot

Ludullu wrote: »

I haven't gone above lvl7 cause I got fucked by the Death Walls twice and then ddos hit, but I loved soloing as a tank and I kinda disagree with almost all suggestions here.

I want the dmg to remain somewhat low (although Pulverize is massive and feels incredible). And you can heal up fairly quickly with a few rations, which would also keep you at permanent full mana, so you can just burst every mob down. I was usually killing 2-4 mobs and then healing up. Overall pace felt great.

Supports (and tank is a support) should not have dps. This is a party game, not a solo one. I already dislike that Clerics can both heal and kill. I don't want Tanks to be as soloable as that (ideally clerics would get nerfed as well).

I get what you're saying, and I agree that group content needs to have a balanced group... But I also feel like any character should be able to leave town and go do some solo content too. I shouldn't have to bring a party if I want to go fight some goblins and basic gathering. I shouldn't need a babysitter to go do what is designed as a soloplayer quest line.

Yes a tank built to tank should do less damage than a DPS, but they still should be able to go around alone.

@Victard personally, I feel like a lot of your concerns will be addressed when secondary archetypes are introduced. A tank/cleric for example will have the self-sustain you are looking for.

iccer

I haven't played the alpha, but I have to disagree with some points made here (not necessarily with the OP).

Every class absolutely needs to be able to do stuff solo. Obviously support classes should never be on the same level as non support classes.

The "it's a group game" idea is okay for actual group content, where you care about your party composition, because you are facing difficult encounters (whether it's bosses, OW dungeons, or something similar). But not everything needs to be group content.
Leveling certainly shouldn't be group content, and it should be doable solo by anyone. I can't imagine logging in, and not being to level up, because I'm not in a group 24-7. I shouldn't need to look for a group just to go around and do some regular quests, and to kill some regular mobs out in the world.
Sure, if I do it, I might have an easier time, and I might be able to do open-world dungeons while at that, to make my leveling faster, but it shouldn't be a requirement, and solo players shouldn't be absolutely fucked, because they are not in a group.
I don't know whether that is the case or not currently, but I'm just not a fan of this argument, or rather how it's presented.

If I'm a member of a guild or a family, I cannot expect to always play at the same time as everyone else. I might log in and play in the morning, where not many people are on. Just like I can log in late at night, where again, they might not be online. I shouldn't get punished for that, by having a miserable experience playing solo. I should absolutely be able to do my own stuff, level up, gather, grind some mobs, etc. and when more people are on, I can group up with them to do content together, whether open-world dungeons, events, caravans, or something else.

Anyways, back on track.

Tanks should have lower damage, but higher survivability. With secondary archetypes, hopefully you can spec into more offensive options, where you can deal some more damage. Obviously, such builds might not be as useful in group settings, where you are required to tank stuff and support allies. And that's why build diversity is important, so even within the same class, you can still switch a few abilities and passives, in order to change how your class plays, just like how it's important that you can somewhat easily switch your secondary archetype.

What I will say is, that playing with just 1-3 abilities for hours looked incredibly boring. I get that you want to have slower leveling, but using just 1-2 abilities to kill mobs, which takes ages, doesn't look fun at all. In the first 3-5 hours, players should already have around 5 abilities unlocked, and then after that I don't care how long it takes to unlock the next ability.
You'll have many players straight up quitting the game because they're going to be bored to death in the first couple of hours.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

But I also feel like any character should be able to leave town and go do some solo content too.

But that's exactly what I did for ~20h in A2 as a solo tank. I farmed mobs, did some general gathering and some questing. Had a hell of time.

You just can't expect this to be as smooth or as quick of an experience as party leveling would be (not saying you specifically expect this). And I'm fully sure I'll be able to solo level up to 10 just fine. It'll simply take waaay longer than it does a party.

Dps tank build deal with mobs fairly quickly. This was my main combo
https://www.twitch.tv/ludullu/clip/WonderfulWimpyHeronKippa-P_IqhNkZrCiShSge

Garrtok

Just wear a 2 handed sword when you're solo. I did a lot of damage. It's an easy fix.

Avernik

I played tank solo on the Sunday prior to the DDoS attack. I made it to level 7 and most of it was using the bow with snare. And it actually went pretty fast. I also equipped the great sword to block and attack if mobs got too close.

The only thing I think they could do to help out players who wants to actually tank at the lower levels is perhaps add some heavy armor to the loot tables. The tank is missing mitigation at lower levels and since their dps is lower they take a beating if they are trying to melee. Two or three pieces of heavy armor in the loot table would help some until you can save up enough silver to buy from the vendor.

MarkRed

Reposting this from my general A2 Phase 2 post

I'm a tank main for as long as I can remember, from EQ to Lotro, Aion, Rift, WoW and everything else in between, I always play a Tank as my first and main character.

Tank here on AoC feels very... uninspiring to say the least. I didn't have too much of a chance to test other classes in the 4 days I did play (Phase 1 Tester here), but of the ones I saw and played, Tank felt undeniably the worst to play.

It didn't have the tankiness, damage or CC to deal with near on level mobs alone or even with the support of groups at times, and it often devolved into kiting in circles and occasionally turning back to hit to ensure you have aggro. Only when I was fighting below level mobs while over geared in greens and blues, could I solo anything without running in fear.

I'm aware that AoC is not designed to be a solo game, but everyone else in my group and my own limited testing with other classes showed that the Tank was the only class in the game without the ability to reliably solo enemies. It could've been my build, or my gear, or my strategy, but it's a pretty consistent point of view that I'm hearing among other testers as well. BUT since every other class in the game can reliably solo to some degree, I would love to see Tank get some buffs, or every other class get nerfed. The latter seems rather lame and a lot harder to pull off.

I'm holding out until I get to see secondary class augments before just abandoning the class entirely, but Tank NEEDS some love.

Blocking shouldn't end your attack chain.
Blocking felt very gummy, as in when my shield was visibly up on my screen, it took another .5s-1s for any hit to register that I was actually blocking. (The Guarding buff didn't appear, nor did the damage state I was blocking)
Perhaps innate buffs to blocking specifically for the Tank. Less Stamina drain, more DR from blocking, reflect damage on successful blocking or any number of things.
Tank's Single Target Taunt was incredibly unreliable, and only grew to be entirely unreliable when any form of lag was present.
The Aggro given on the initial pulling of a mob seems way too high, sometimes I would end up doing 1000+ ACTUAL damage in my chain (3000+ Threat) and still be unable to pull aggro from a mob who was only missing 2000 HP.
Nerf Intimidating Aura. Pound for pound it is the best skill for threat that Tank has. It does on average, five times more aggro per .5s tick, than other skills do per use because it scales with HP. Additionally I'm unaware of if it applies it's effective threat damage to an enemy's mitigations, either way it is still incredibly over tuned.

SmileGurney

I wish Intrepid took some inspirations from how tanks feel in the Warhammer: Return of Reckoning. Tanks there offer multiple slightly different playstyles, some lean towards group utility, tankiness, others towards slightly more dps and 2 handed weapons. There are few unique class mechanics also, like Ironbreaker's Grudge system.

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