Alt-Friendliness

Hey there!

I know, the game's lvling speed is supposed to be slow (and I like that), which makes it alt-unfriendly (I don't like that). To make it a bit easier on alts, I'd suggest having reputation etc to be carried over, and maybe have all your characters share a bank. In DAoC, you shared your cash even across characters of different realms, and that was in 2001 in an RvR setting, so I'm sure it'll work for AoC, too.

This will make sharing gear between characters easier, too, and why shouldn't it? It's me playing, I'm the same player, and this would make it a bit easier on me without removing the grind to 50 (clvl and crafts).

Shared bank would work with local banking, so you wouldn't be able to exploit the system.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Carlisle

The idea of the game is to rely in a community and need other players to make a final product/crafting etc, make it easier would go against the games pillar

nanfoodle

I did EQ1 and DAoC from launch. Ashes will be as friendly as your old school MMO. It's 100hrs to 25 and some have done it in 30hrs. So 200hr for your main exp path. If everything is optional maybe 60-100hrs. No one knows how long it will take to max your crafting and side exp, like religion, background etc. I have 3 raid chairs in EQ1 and 3 accounts filled with alts. I will be rolling two chars in Ashes.

ruxa

Carlisle wrote: »

The idea of the game is to rely in a community and need other players to make a final product/crafting etc, make it easier would go against the games pillar

This 100%

It really ruins that important of element of being locked into a community or by geography, thereby giving a lot more meaning to the gear and the community itself. I don't think prioritizing "alt-friendliness" is the right way to go about it.

Andi

What are you guys even talking about? Definitely not the same thing I meant when I wrote it up

"Relying on others": Yes, that's a thing that needs to be in there. Relying on people for groups to do PVE or PVP, relying on other crafters for your own craft (have them craft components you need).

What I'm asking for is alt-friendliness, as in: share the inventory, share maybe things like reputation.

You'd still rely on others to do literally anything in the game, but you won't have to do everything on every character from scratch, even things that don't directly advance your character's power.

Maybe you can't see this yet, because the feature isn't in yet, but let me tell you, nothing feels quite as bad as having 2 or 3 characters and doing the same faction stuff etc for every char, or unlocking the same glam/transmog. "Per character" is just in some games to waste the players' time, as a gating mechanism.

Dolyem

Nah, Ashes is meant to be a bit more hardcore by design. New character, New you. And cross character storage allows for cross continent material transfers so thats a hell no.

Pyrolol

Old school MMO is not alt friendly but alt (put in the time and effort). I personally don’t mind the 1 character feel, it’s giving me that 2007 vibe again 😂

ruxa

Andi wrote: »

What are you guys even talking about? Definitely not the same thing I meant when I wrote it up

"Relying on others": Yes, that's a thing that needs to be in there. Relying on people for groups to do PVE or PVP, relying on other crafters for your own craft (have them craft components you need).

What I'm asking for is alt-friendliness, as in: share the inventory, share maybe things like reputation.

You'd still rely on others to do literally anything in the game, but you won't have to do everything on every character from scratch, even things that don't directly advance your character's power.

Maybe you can't see this yet, because the feature isn't in yet, but let me tell you, nothing feels quite as bad as having 2 or 3 characters and doing the same faction stuff etc for every char, or unlocking the same glam/transmog. "Per character" is just in some games to waste the players' time, as a gating mechanism.

Hey buddy you ignored why shared inventory is bad, you cant ignore and then repeat it.

When it comes to reputation, that's more reasonable since it doesnt have impact on the game like shared inventory does, and we know it does

Andi

Well then nuke the shared inventory thing, but keep the reputation

I'm an altoholic and will definitely play more than one character. The grind doesn't scare me off - I was a Lineage 2 addict for long enough to be hardened. But reputations are not something that's fun to grind.

Vhaeyne

I feel like alts should be just as much work as mains and there should be no way to transfer gear without having to mule it through another player.

The reason being Is that alts allow you to get around restrictions set on having one character.

Otherwise this would be a Final Fantasy MMO where everyone can learn everything on one character.

If you can use Alts to get around game mechanics. It should not be convenient at a minimum.

Depraved

Andi wrote: »

What are you guys even talking about? Definitely not the same thing I meant when I wrote it up

"Relying on others": Yes, that's a thing that needs to be in there. Relying on people for groups to do PVE or PVP, relying on other crafters for your own craft (have them craft components you need).

What I'm asking for is alt-friendliness, as in: share the inventory, share maybe things like reputation.

You'd still rely on others to do literally anything in the game, but you won't have to do everything on every character from scratch, even things that don't directly advance your character's power.

Maybe you can't see this yet, because the feature isn't in yet, but let me tell you, nothing feels quite as bad as having 2 or 3 characters and doing the same faction stuff etc for every char, or unlocking the same glam/transmog. "Per character" is just in some games to waste the players' time, as a gating mechanism.

I get your point but ashes isn't about doing dailies and grinding reputation. the "rep" you can grind is th enode currency. you just complete missions and buy stuff. you could simply get the mats on your main and transfer them to your alt and complete the mission with your alt. not sharing the currency also prevents people from just farming everything faster with their high level char (for non mats missions) and gearing alts faster than they would normally be able to.

i like the idea of a shared warehouse though, but it has pros and cons. shared inventory means less hoarding for players, but means easier transfer of things and using alts as storage. not sharing the inventory means harder items transfer but you can basically have more storage space, but you can lose more during a node siege, and it will be harder to just transfer everything out to another node before the siege.

GetClapped

Been reading through a lot of comments from some players and it looks like this game (because of it's community) is heading STRAIGHT head first into the same mistakes every single other MMO that has failed did.

Every single response from you folks is to Keep it hardcore, keep things hard, ignore feedback "nothing is wrong" "this is the way it's supposed to be" etc etc etc.

I've got a newsflash for most of you, the hardcore types? The elitism coming from most of you? you are like 1-10% of MMO gamers out there. If you think this game is going "to be a hit" with the way it's currently designed? that's a strong no, it won't be. all of you are in for a rude awakening as well if things stay the way it is.

players just simply will NOT play the game.

Myself included, I love alts, i love having lots of them. Want to know why? one of the main reasons why is because AGAIN (because of the community) it's impossible to balance classes, and there always OP classes and incredibly weak classes. When players come to the forums to complain about it? folks like ALL of you say "this is fine" , so most of us go play another class. if that experience is going to be dreadful and not fun? then we won't play the game. it's very simple.

Hinotori

GetClapped wrote: »

Been reading through a lot of comments from some players and it looks like this game (because of it's community) is heading STRAIGHT head first into the same mistakes every single other MMO that has failed did.

Every single response from you folks is to Keep it hardcore, keep things hard, ignore feedback "nothing is wrong" "this is the way it's supposed to be" etc etc etc.

I've got a newsflash for most of you, the hardcore types? The elitism coming from most of you? you are like 1-10% of MMO gamers out there. If you think this game is going "to be a hit" with the way it's currently designed? that's a strong no, it won't be. all of you are in for a rude awakening as well if things stay the way it is.

players just simply will NOT play the game.

Myself included, I love alts, i love having lots of them. Want to know why? one of the main reasons why is because AGAIN (because of the community) it's impossible to balance classes, and there always OP classes and incredibly weak classes. When players come to the forums to complain about it? folks like ALL of you say "this is fine" , so most of us go play another class. if that experience is going to be dreadful and not fun? then we won't play the game. it's very simple.

You act like the games going to stop you making an alt character. If you want an alt then make an alt.

Dygz

Andi wrote: »

What I'm asking for is alt-friendliness, as in: share the inventory, share maybe things like reputation.

You'd still rely on others to do literally anything in the game, but you won't have to do everything on every character from scratch, even things that don't directly advance your character's power.

That is "gamer friendly"; not alt friendly.
Ashes is an RPG - which means each alt is a separate, distinct character who needs to earn their own xp and reputations.
If your characters want to trade items to each other for free - they can do so.

Dygz

GetClapped wrote: »

I've got a newsflash for most of you, the hardcore types? The elitism coming from most of you? you are like 1-10% of MMO gamers out there. If you think this game is going "to be a hit" with the way it's currently designed? that's a strong no, it won't be. all of you are in for a rude awakening as well if things stay the way it is.

players just simply will NOT play the game.

Myself included, I love alts, i love having lots of them. Want to know why? one of the main reasons why is because AGAIN (because of the community) it's impossible to balance classes, and there always OP classes and incredibly weak classes. When players come to the forums to complain about it? folks like ALL of you say "this is fine" , so most of us go play another class. if that experience is going to be dreadful and not fun? then we won't play the game. it's very simple.

I mean... the target audience for Ashes is gamers who enjoy PvP and Hardcore Challenge gameplay.
And, yeah, I agree that is a niche audience for MMORPGs. But, that audience will also tell you that there are plenty of other games for players who prefer MMORPGs with more Casual gameplay and very, very few games designed to support the Ashes target audience.

Arya_Yeshe

shared bank is the bare minimum. Intrepid should be proactively implementing this feature, rather than waiting for players to request it

Vhaeyne

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

shared bank is the bare minimum. Intrepid should be proactively implementing this feature, rather than waiting for players to request it

I really really don't think a shared bank is good for the game.

I think Intepic should proactively speak out against this feature.

It allows people abuse the loot tables of lower level mobs and this bypass a part of the economy that new players should be dominating.

If you stop getting drops from low level mobs because you are high level. And you can just roll a new toon and tweak it. You are both stealing mobs from low level players and hurting the economy for low level players.

This is just the first problem off the top of my head. I am sure more creative players will come up with more ways to abuse shared storage.

Andi

Dygz wrote: »

Andi wrote: »

What I'm asking for is alt-friendliness, as in: share the inventory, share maybe things like reputation.

You'd still rely on others to do literally anything in the game, but you won't have to do everything on every character from scratch, even things that don't directly advance your character's power.

That is "gamer friendly"; not alt friendly.
Ashes is an RPG - which means each alt is a separate, distinct character who needs to earn their own xp and reputations.
If your characters want to trade items to each other for free - they can do so.

Well yes, of course, alt-friendly translates directly to player-friendly, and is obviously completely opposed to roleplay. But then, so are other things in the game, like attaching your 2handed sword to your back in one fluid motion with invisible Velcro.

It all always depends on how far you want to move the sliders to find a balance that works well with your game. The reason I suggested a shared bank, for example, was for convenience. To be able to exchange items you already earned in game to an alt. The reason I suggested reputation earned to be shared between your characters is so you don't have to do the same reputation grind several times, so the rep would stick with you, the player, and not the character.

I completely understand where you're coming from, but in some cases, I'd err on the side of playability over immersion.

Let's look at something else: bought outfits in the store. Will Intrepid keep those as "per character" and therefore reduce their value? Or will an unlocked or bought cosmetic also be available to your alts?

Alt-friendliness promotes replayability. Even in games with a slow grind, having alts for different purposes is just fun and helps the longevity. And if I make, say, an alt on the other side of the world, all the shared inventory and reputation won't do much for me (since storage is local). Unlocked cosmetic slots, though, will increase my enjoyment, no matter which character I play.

I'd also ask anyone reading this thread not to consider the features I mentioned, but alt-friendliness in general. I'm not married to any specific feature (well, except for unlocked cosmetic slots). Whether bank space is shared or not will not decide whether I play AoC, or how many alts I'll have. But I think it's important to raise awareness of the topic, as it's important and can do much for player retention.

mainedutch

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

shared bank is the bare minimum. Intrepid should be proactively implementing this feature, rather than waiting for players to request it

They should absolutely not implement this feature. If you can't handle making a new character, don't do it. Simple as that. The game's not meant to be easy, and if you don't enjoy that, why play?

Andi

mainedutch wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

shared bank is the bare minimum. Intrepid should be proactively implementing this feature, rather than waiting for players to request it

They should absolutely not implement this feature. If you can't handle making a new character, don't do it. Simple as that. The game's not meant to be easy, and if you don't enjoy that, why play?

Meh. I know you didn't reply to me, but I'll comment on this, anyway. Telling someone "if you don't like it, don't make an alt" is basically the same as "if you don't like the game, don't play it" - which for one comes across as very condescending; and then, it implies that everything is set in stone. From every appearance Steven made, though, I was under the impression that feedback is exactly what they want from us.

Btw, I know you're not usually the grumpy type.

Dygz

Andi wrote: »

Well yes, of course, alt-friendly translates directly to player-friendly, and is obviously completely opposed to roleplay. But then, so are other things in the game, like attaching your 2handed sword to your back in one fluid motion with invisible Velcro.

What???

Andi wrote: »

It all always depends on how far you want to move the sliders to find a balance that works well with your game. The reason I suggested a shared bank, for example, was for convenience. To be able to exchange items you already earned in game to an alt. The reason I suggested reputation earned to be shared between your characters is so you don't have to do the same reputation grind several times, so the rep would stick with you, the player, and not the character.

I have no clue what you're really trying to say here.
Obviously, you want more convenience - despite Steven saying vehemently that Ashes is not convenience game.
In an RPG, character xp, personality and reputaion should be separate from OOC player stuff.

Andi wrote: »

I completely understand where you're coming from, but in some cases, I'd err on the side of playability over immersion.

Yep. Lots of gamers prefer to remove as many RPG components as they can because they don't care about RP. Of course... Ashes already does little to support RP. RPers have left this community in droves, so not really gonna matter much.
I'm still gonna advocate to support RP in an MMORPG, though.

Andi wrote: »

Let's look at something else: bought outfits in the store. Will Intrepid keep those as "per character" and therefore reduce their value? Or will an unlocked or bought cosmetic also be available to your alts?

If your character wants to trade stuff with another character - that should be fine.
There's no reason why your characters should not be able to mail or trade with each other. That's not the same thing as sharing rep or xp.
Theoretically, there could be open world Storage where characters can share items - that should not be restricted to alts. I would expect there might be permissions on that kind of storage - especially if it's Guild or Freehold Storage.
Cosmetics bought outside of the game should be share among alts because Characters don't purchase those items - players purchase those items. Again, in-game, your characters should be able to trade items with other characters (including alts) for free - if they wish.

Andi wrote: »

Alt-friendliness promotes replayability. Even in games with a slow grind, having alts for different purposes is just fun and helps the longevity. And if I make, say, an alt on the other side of the world, all the shared inventory and reputation won't do much for me (since storage is local). Unlocked cosmetic slots, though, will increase my enjoyment, no matter which character I play.

In an RPG, "replayability" should mean that each character starts from scratch, has different interests and different experiences and earns different reputations.
You are asking for Ashes to be "gamer friendly". Alt-friendly is allowing each acount to have 5+ alts and for there to be a method such as mail for characters to be able to trade items rather than dropping items on the ground and having those dropped items disappear before your alt can log in to retrieve it.

Child Item