Noaani wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Noaani wrote: » However, the notion that guild will ever be considered less important than node is simply not a factor of game design. It isn't something Steven has control over. Well, you have your vision of the game, and I have mine. All i am asking for are the tools to help make the node community strong. They implemented the guild stuff already, so clearly that is their priority. Again, they will come. However, it isn't a "vision for the game" to say that people will prioritize their guild over their node. I mean, even your arguments go against people putting their node first. If you have a choice between losing your guild or your node, a new node will always be easier to find than a new guild.
Xeeg wrote: » Noaani wrote: » However, the notion that guild will ever be considered less important than node is simply not a factor of game design. It isn't something Steven has control over. Well, you have your vision of the game, and I have mine. All i am asking for are the tools to help make the node community strong. They implemented the guild stuff already, so clearly that is their priority.
Noaani wrote: » However, the notion that guild will ever be considered less important than node is simply not a factor of game design. It isn't something Steven has control over.
Noaani wrote: » That is what a real guild is. It is real connections with the people behind the characters. Nodes aren't that. Nodes can never be that. Steven doesn't understand what guilds are because he has never been a part of a real guild. He looks at guilds as being about characters, and what use they are to him in furthering his in game goals (he has said many times that he is essentially a complete dick in games).
Xeeg wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Noaani wrote: » However, the notion that guild will ever be considered less important than node is simply not a factor of game design. It isn't something Steven has control over. Well, you have your vision of the game, and I have mine. All i am asking for are the tools to help make the node community strong. They implemented the guild stuff already, so clearly that is their priority. Again, they will come. However, it isn't a "vision for the game" to say that people will prioritize their guild over their node. I mean, even your arguments go against people putting their node first. If you have a choice between losing your guild or your node, a new node will always be easier to find than a new guild. I just left my guild.
Noaani wrote: » That is what a real guild is. It is real connections with the people behind the characters. Nodes aren't that. Nodes can never be that. Steven doesn't understand what guilds are because he has never been a part of a real guild. He looks at guilds as being about characters, and what use they are to him in furthering his in game goals (he has said many times that he is essentially a complete dick in games). No one is stopping you from having whatever relationships you want in life. We are talking about game systems here. What game systems are there to promote node relationships and what systems are there to promote guild relationships. Sounds like you had your guild long before Ashes of Creation so it doesn't seem like they need to do alot on their end to support that end of things. Call it a guild, call it a gang, call it a group of people who share a game tag, have their own chat, and some game perks... The "guild" system is lower ranking than the "node" system as far as the game design is concerned. That's the point.
zalvati0n wrote: » I'm torn. On one hand, I love the traditional structure of guilds. On the other the idea of note citizenship is kind of diminished as it is right now. Node chat would be a great addition in my opinion.
Andi wrote: » Guilds are a staple of MMOs, but what if they didn't exist? Instead you had nodes taking their place, so you'd have to all join the same node if you wanted a common chat and other social tools, and joining/leaving would be on the individual instead of the organisation. This would lead to much drama and to mega guilds imploding left and right, and to people finding new friends simply by liking the same node/environment. They'd never met others if not for the node. This sounds like a very interesting approach to me. Or just keep both systems; this is probably what they intend to do.
Noaani wrote: » Xeeg wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Do you honestly want a game where the social structure no one has any oversight in regards to membership is the one that takes precedence over the social structure where you can indeed oversee that membership? I'd personally put precedence on people that I am in a guild with because I like them, rather than people I am in a node with because they decided to join the metropolis I helped build. It's the vision that Steven outlined, it's the vision that I want to see implemented.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Affiliations I know it's what he said, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing, kr a possible thing. You put this notion to most MMO players - explain to them the open nature of joining a node and the closed nature of joining a guild, then tell them the games designer had the intention of trying to make people look at node citizenship as their primary social construct - and watch them laugh. 5he fact that so many people are already in the guild they intent to be playing Ashes in, and the notion that nodes are designed to be temporary rather than permanant, and the whole thing really is just a joke. Just because Steven said it, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Xeeg wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Do you honestly want a game where the social structure no one has any oversight in regards to membership is the one that takes precedence over the social structure where you can indeed oversee that membership? I'd personally put precedence on people that I am in a guild with because I like them, rather than people I am in a node with because they decided to join the metropolis I helped build. It's the vision that Steven outlined, it's the vision that I want to see implemented.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Affiliations
Noaani wrote: » Do you honestly want a game where the social structure no one has any oversight in regards to membership is the one that takes precedence over the social structure where you can indeed oversee that membership? I'd personally put precedence on people that I am in a guild with because I like them, rather than people I am in a node with because they decided to join the metropolis I helped build.
ruxa wrote: » your argument is "guilds should be prioritized because people join based on certain commonalities and desires"
No, my argument is that people will prioritize guilds because nodes are designed to be temporary, where as guilds often outlast the game. Other things such as the entry criteria in to each add to my point, but are not central factors. I am also not talking about what should or should not be prioritized by Intrepid.
ruxa wrote: » No, my argument is that people will prioritize guilds because nodes are designed to be temporary, where as guilds often outlast the game. Other things such as the entry criteria in to each add to my point, but are not central factors. I am also not talking about what should or should not be prioritized by Intrepid. well in that case it's totally fine if not preferable to incentivize node nationality over guild nationality
