Looting bodies is a form of greifing, change my mind

We should talk about the repercussions of looting bodies. If you swoop in and loot a body while a party is in a fight, it should turn you automatically purple. Right now, there is no risk of someone getting free loot. My guild doesn't want to put everyone on a KOS list just because they looted a body.

How does everyone else feel about this?

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DeeSav

laughingrav3n wrote: »

There was an instance that made me quit playing most of Saturday and I feel like here would be a good place to write about it.

Me (LV 8 Mage) and my buddy (Lv 8 Bard) were farming outside of Jovea killing mobs when another group attacked us (LV 11 Ranger) following him was a LV 6 Mage. The Ranger PK'd us, so we instinctively fought back and died a few times, sure it happens but here is where it got interesting. The LV 6 Mage was the bagman for the LV 11 Archer. He was looting our bodies, so the only way for us to get our stuff was to Flag up and kill the LV 6 at which point there was a little chance of us getting some of our stuff. But now we have Corruption and you guessed it, the LV 11 Ranger was still around to PK us, now we lost 25% of our stuff including equipped items and you guessed it the Mage was still scooping it up. ended up with almost 7k in XP debt, lost precious materials and some gear I crafted and I felt like I was robbed at gunpoint, it wasn't fun, it just made me frustrated and thinking about the hours of work down the drain with no way to fight back or attempt to get my stuff. I entirely think he should be flagged when he looted us or even better gain corruption since looting a dead player is in itself a corrupt act.

The bag man doesn't even really matter... if you lost gear from corruption you wont get it back unless they equip it, are already corrupted, and it just happens to be one of the random pieces that were dropped off them. If you are strictly speaking about materials, they only drop a % of that as well so you will never actually fully get back what was taken if they started with an empty inventory. Unfortunately It seems like you were heavily provoked and overcommitted out of frustration. Jovea has a storage and you could have just banked all your remaining materials and gave them nothing except excess corruption for the ranger after the first death.

Peeger

Honestly, I am surprised how many people DON'T loot your corpse, especially when you were there for a while and getting along and helping others. I like I have to make sure if my bag is full of glint, to go sell before hitting a harder area. The only guy I looted anything good off of was a level 20 corrupted idiot killing low levels, and they grouped up and got him. Been leaving people I am farming around, and they have been doing the same. Its nice to see the best in people and not the worst, for sure!

BackgroundDust

Caeryl wrote: »

It definitely should be adjusted. Only the killer can loot for ~5min (or kept locked for the same amount of a fully PvE death), and only after would the corpse pile unlock so anyone can loot. Gives you time to do a corpse run and it stays consistent with the looting rules everywhere else in the game.

The full loot free-for-all is fitting for Minecraft, not so much an mmo like this

This. Player's dead body should be treated same as dead mob, with the same looting mechanics. (5 mins is way too long though)

laughingrav3n wrote: »

There was an instance that made me quit playing most of Saturday and I feel like here would be a good place to write about it.

Me (LV 8 Mage) and my buddy (Lv 8 Bard) were farming outside of Jovea killing mobs when another group attacked us (LV 11 Ranger) following him was a LV 6 Mage. The Ranger PK'd us, so we instinctively fought back and died a few times, sure it happens but here is where it got interesting. The LV 6 Mage was the bagman for the LV 11 Archer. He was looting our bodies, so the only way for us to get our stuff was to Flag up and kill the LV 6 at which point there was a little chance of us getting some of our stuff. But now we have Corruption and you guessed it, the LV 11 Ranger was still around to PK us, now we lost 25% of our stuff including equipped items and you guessed it the Mage was still scooping it up. ended up with almost 7k in XP debt, lost precious materials and some gear I crafted and I felt like I was robbed at gunpoint, it wasn't fun, it just made me frustrated and thinking about the hours of work down the drain with no way to fight back or attempt to get my stuff. I entirely think he should be flagged when he looted us or even better gain corruption since looting a dead player is in itself a corrupt act.

So, the ranger killed you, they got a bit of materials but instead of trying to kill the ranger you went and killed the mage?
Honestly, you should be mad at yourselves for making this decision.

Its_Me

Andi wrote: »

I believe that looting player corpses doesn't flag you is just an oversight and not intended. Pretty sure they'll fix that eventually.

It is not an oversight. Look up the Ashes Pathfinders - Episode 121 - Vision with Steven Sharif (Ashes of Creation Podcast) where he specifically states that picking up loot does not flag a non-combatant, it is intended for now.

With that said, Steven also later stated there were a few considerations in the works for death loot including a way to improve your bag stats with interaction time where it would take longer for someone to loot your death loot AND that flagging anyone not in your guild/raid that swoops in to loot very well might be the norm down the road.

Its_Me

laughingrav3n wrote: »

The Ranger PK'd us, so we instinctively fought back and died a few times,

Looking at your complaint, it does not appear that you wanted pvp during your situation so you should have simply used the mechanics of the game by not fighting back, having the ranger go red and going right back and THEN attacking (it would not flag you attacking a red) and picking up his dropped gear when you killed him.

If the mage decided to flag on you and kill you, rinse and repeat.

Turning that player(s) red makes his gameplay difficult and the dropped gear from the higher level would very likely have been worth a lot more than whatever materials you dropped and the xp can be farmed back quickly. For now, simply play the system and when you are ready for pvp, just flag/fight when someone else does.

Caeryl

BackgroundDust wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

It definitely should be adjusted. Only the killer can loot for ~5min (or kept locked for the same amount of a fully PvE death), and only after would the corpse pile unlock so anyone can loot. Gives you time to do a corpse run and it stays consistent with the looting rules everywhere else in the game.

The full loot free-for-all is fitting for Minecraft, not so much an mmo like this

This. Player's dead body should be treated same as dead mob, with the same looting mechanics. (5 mins is way too long though)

.

In a game like Ashes with significant travel time, 5 minutes is almost too short a timer for anyone to have any chance of reclaiming their corpse drops after a PvE death (PvP kills should of course let the killer grab their stuff immediately, but only the killer)

It's also consistent with looting rules for mobs. ie the killer can loot it, but everyone else has to wait for the timer to expire before they can take whatever is left on the corpse.

SirChancelot

laughingrav3n wrote: »

There was an instance that made me quit playing most of Saturday and I feel like here would be a good place to write about it.

Me (LV 8 Mage) and my buddy (Lv 8 Bard) were farming outside of Jovea killing mobs when another group attacked us (LV 11 Ranger) following him was a LV 6 Mage. The Ranger PK'd us, so we instinctively fought back and died a few times, sure it happens but here is where it got interesting. The LV 6 Mage was the bagman for the LV 11 Archer. He was looting our bodies, so the only way for us to get our stuff was to Flag up and kill the LV 6 at which point there was a little chance of us getting some of our stuff. But now we have Corruption and you guessed it, the LV 11 Ranger was still around to PK us, now we lost 25% of our stuff including equipped items and you guessed it the Mage was still scooping it up. ended up with almost 7k in XP debt, lost precious materials and some gear I crafted and I felt like I was robbed at gunpoint, it wasn't fun, it just made me frustrated and thinking about the hours of work down the drain with no way to fight back or attempt to get my stuff. I entirely think he should be flagged when he looted us or even better gain corruption since looting a dead player is in itself a corrupt act.

Yeah
That's the kind of BS this testing is supposed to find.

Veeshan

How can it be greifing if you lost the items in the first place by your own mistake? like thats a punishment for you for dieing due to typically yours or your party actions. The player who happens to be there to loot you is not griefing however that being said i think you should still be flagged for like 30 seconds when u loot something off another player grave to allow for people retaliate in the area and now worry bout going corruption for said retaliation.

nanfoodle

I'm of the mindset that looting someone body should not be a thing in PvE. PvP it should stay as it is. I personally do not like how it stands.

Whisky

Guilds putting everyone on KOS is lol, saw that happen in L2 on a few occasions, eventually the guilds that wanted to KoS the rest of the server, ceased to exist.

Looting other bodies is NOT greifing it is however, pvp and should flag accordingly. imo ofc

ChaffyJay

Looting bodies now makes you purple thank you devs!

Noaani

ChaffyJay wrote: »

Looting bodies now makes you purple thank you devs!

Intrepid bowing down to the whiners then.

Those that are for this change have no place in ever complaining with any other change Intrepid make due to feedback.

mainedutch

ChaffyJay wrote: »

Looting bodies now makes you purple thank you devs!

Can't wait to hunt thieves in between pack pulls.

Dolyem

Not griefing, but I would say its a call for combat. So a combatant state for a bit for a revenge kill seems solid enough.

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

ChaffyJay wrote: »

Looting bodies now makes you purple thank you devs!

Intrepid bowing down to the whiners then.

Those that are for this change have no place in ever complaining with any other change Intrepid make due to feedback.

This change was already planned before threads were made (it was mentioned in his QnA over the weekend). It kind of was an obvious change to make.

Not sure why people shouldn't be able to disagree with some changes because intrepid made a small change they agreed with.

Veeshan

ChaffyJay wrote: »

We should talk about the repercussions of looting bodies. If you swoop in and loot a body while a party is in a fight, it should turn you automatically purple. Right now, there is no risk of someone getting free loot. My guild doesn't want to put everyone on a KOS list just because they looted a body.

How does everyone else feel about this?

its fixed now btw u get flagged looting other people body according to PTR patch notes today

Noaani

mcstackerson wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

ChaffyJay wrote: »

Looting bodies now makes you purple thank you devs!

Intrepid bowing down to the whiners then.

Those that are for this change have no place in ever complaining with any other change Intrepid make due to feedback.

This change was already planned before threads were made (it was mentioned in his QnA over the weekend). It kind of was an obvious change to make.

Not sure why people shouldn't be able to disagree with some changes because intrepid made a small change they agreed with.

The origin plan was to not flag for looting, this was stated years ago.

People started whining about it, so Intrepid announced they would make it flag people. They then implemented that change.

People that whine and get the game changed shouldn't complain if other people whine and get the game changed.

DeeSav

Maybe people should think about the possibility of dying less rather than trying to escape the intended consequences of it? What's the point of even dropping anything when you die if you create systems to make it more and more likely that you wont lose it? At this point I'm leaning towards just having those resources get deleted from the game. You drop nothing and have no chance of recouping those losses. Death is supposed to be more than the slight inconvenience of running back from your spawn point or waiting on a clerics cooldowns.

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

ChaffyJay wrote: »

Looting bodies now makes you purple thank you devs!

Intrepid bowing down to the whiners then.

Those that are for this change have no place in ever complaining with any other change Intrepid make due to feedback.

This change was already planned before threads were made (it was mentioned in his QnA over the weekend). It kind of was an obvious change to make.

Not sure why people shouldn't be able to disagree with some changes because intrepid made a small change they agreed with.

The origin plan was to not flag for looting, this was stated years ago.

People started whining about it, so Intrepid announced they would make it flag people. They then implemented that change.

People that whine and get the game changed shouldn't complain if other people whine and get the game changed.

They added it to the game because they thought it made sense for the game, not because people "whined".

rumshakr

I must confess. I haven't been following the game development and this was my first weekend playing. I did loot 2 bodies and received some stolen glint. After I figured out what had happened I haven't done it since. So I gave the couple of people that looted my body the benefit of the doubt.

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