Where and how to PVP

I was thinking to myself why going with a flaging system for the pvp ? Why not a faction system ? Flaging system turn you into a criminel if you want to pvp, sure the reward can be worth it but in the end i don't want to get punish for doing pvp in a pvp game. Faction base pvp is best for me and also prevent the guys who kill noobs freshly logged in the game because the factions would not spawn there characters at the same place. In archeage it was faction base it was great (Add Pirate faction aswell why not ?) In wow back in the days Faction base and open world pvp was great. Other option is you keep this flagging system (just anable it at lvl 5 maybe ?) but you add faction pvp on top of that like if i declare this guilde as hostile then i can freely pvp with them without being punish for it. Or maybe this religion is hostile to this religion. Pvp can be motivated by a lot of things but in the end some player me included just want to pvp because they like it and faction base pvp accomplish that where criminal based system doesn't.

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mainedutch

Githal wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

Losing 4 items is brutal enough.
The point is that killing without griefing should not give any penalties at all, and you should not get corruption at all for it.

LMFAO
"Criminal activity should have no consequences..."
Trolls gonna troll.

I would agree that the thing that happened to Asmond was sort of criminal act.
But i dont agree that killing green player in order to gain access to rare gathering resources or farming spot or some other sort of in game opportunity should make you criminal.

Just ask yourself how many thousands of people were killed by the USA in order for the country to get access to Petrol.

The way the corruption system works now is too convenient for green players to get all farm spots and no one to be able to remove them from there. This should not be the case at all. If you want the best spot - fight for it.
If you dont want to PVP then find some low quality farm spot where no one will kill you at

PS: Start thinking and listening to what other people have to say before calling them names. Coz guess what this makes you if you dont...

It's crazy you're using invading other countries to try and defend your answer as if that's not an awful thing.

Nonetheless, I agree that only (and only) your first non-consensual kill should come with maybe an experience decrease. I don't think you should get so hindered and drop gear on your first kill. Anything after that should 100% come with epic consequences.

SmileGurney

In my experience faction based pvp by itself is too rigid and leads to even more faction imbalances, and that even if you have more than 2 factions. I have seen this in WoW, Warhammer Online, Planetside 2 etc etc. Maybe some old timers from the DAoC times can pitch in how well that worked there with 3 factions. I heard some good, but also some mixed opinions.

Anyway this aspect isn't changing in AoC for sure.

Githal

mainedutch wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

Losing 4 items is brutal enough.
The point is that killing without griefing should not give any penalties at all, and you should not get corruption at all for it.

LMFAO
"Criminal activity should have no consequences..."
Trolls gonna troll.

I would agree that the thing that happened to Asmond was sort of criminal act.
But i dont agree that killing green player in order to gain access to rare gathering resources or farming spot or some other sort of in game opportunity should make you criminal.

Just ask yourself how many thousands of people were killed by the USA in order for the country to get access to Petrol.

The way the corruption system works now is too convenient for green players to get all farm spots and no one to be able to remove them from there. This should not be the case at all. If you want the best spot - fight for it.
If you dont want to PVP then find some low quality farm spot where no one will kill you at

PS: Start thinking and listening to what other people have to say before calling them names. Coz guess what this makes you if you dont...

It's crazy you're using invading other countries to try and defend your answer as if that's not an awful thing.

Nonetheless, I agree that only (and only) your first non-consensual kill should come with maybe an experience decrease. I don't think you should get so hindered and drop gear on your first kill. Anything after that should 100% come with epic consequences.

Where did i say that this is not awful? Ofc its awful. But did they get penalty for this? No. Why? Because they make it in the form of WAR or "helping a country that is in war with other country". In the end they get what they want and there is no consequences at all.

I think the solution will require to be a lot more complicated than this. Like the areas should be distributed a "PVP Threat" to them. Like The Spawn location of the FIrebrand is S tier threat. Meaning that You will have to kill the same guy a lot of times before you get corrupted. Areas with rare crafting materials can be A tier where you can kill players up to 5-6 times. And ofc the regular areas with low tier crafting materials, and mobs that give regular exp/items and ect where if you kill green player you get corrupted instantly like it is now,

Also in S and A threat levels areas you shouldnt be getting instant corruption even if you kill lower level players. But if you kill lower level player in B threat level (for examplee a great exp farming spot) you get instant corruption, but if you kill player your level you can kill him 3-4 times

excidius

The system is being made overly complex, half the features aren't in game yet and even if their features make it fair, it will still be unfair because half the community will not fully understand it, especially those casual players who will be most annoyed by the pvp and ultimately quit because they do not understand when they can fight back and when they cannot.

There are currently a lot of loopholes in the pvp flagging system, they have said it is not complete yet, but there are also other problems that do not require anyone to even flag up for example dragging a bunch of 3 star mobs into a group farming mobs already getting them killed so they can loot materials/expel them from the zone.
Another problem is where you can just walk up to the groups healers unflagged and gank the healers (causing corruption on 1 person) then having the whole group die while the corrupted guys friends loot without being flagged, you cannot fight back against that and that is not fair pvp. The only way I see this being fixed is if they cannot flag in the field but must flag at a location away from a POI.

Gromlof

Azherae wrote: »

You could join an alliance of 1200 people and probably fight another alliance of 1200 people.

Some people like PirateSoftware and maybe you ? do not come from the same mmo background as us, i'm thinking eve online. Did you ever played Archeage ?

I think it's hard to explain why i don't like T&L to some one who doesn't have the experience of the goods pvp mmo. And personaly i like small scale pvp and 1v1 1vx.

The big zergs are good once or twice a month and that's it in my opinion.

And no a alliance of 1200 people facing guildes and alliances 10 time smallers is not good for me in any way. I like the calm guilds with not to many people and the alliances based on ingame "friendship" reather than let's just join the big one so we can play the game.

Gromlof

ThevoicestHeVoIcEs wrote: »

Anyway this aspect isn't changing in AoC for sure.

Maybe it won't change and they will find the balance i would be more than happy i don't need faction just balance.

And i want also to be able to pvp without turning into a criminal and without having to engage in battles involving hundreds of people.

So maybe a solution could be : in some interesting spots where you can find rare ressources or loot good ressources on bosses like dungeons. pvp should be anable for everyone.

hleV

I don't know about factions, but you should at least be able to manually permaflag yourself as combatant, to indicate that you're a PvPer. That way other PvPers in OW will see you and know that they are free to go all out on you without the risk of gaining corruption, therefore they don't have to "tag" players to see if they fight back or not. Give these permaflaggers some PvP-related benefits and that's good enough risk vs reward system that satisfies everyone.

Dygz

^^^
"Make Ashes a PvP game and then give PvPers a participation trophy."

Azherae

Gromlof wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

You could join an alliance of 1200 people and probably fight another alliance of 1200 people.

Some people like PirateSoftware and maybe you ? do not come from the same mmo background as us, i'm thinking eve online. Did you ever played Archeage ?

I think it's hard to explain why i don't like T&L to some one who doesn't have the experience of the goods pvp mmo. And personaly i like small scale pvp and 1v1 1vx.

The big zergs are good once or twice a month and that's it in my opinion.

And no a alliance of 1200 people facing guildes and alliances 10 time smallers is not good for me in any way. I like the calm guilds with not to many people and the alliances based on ingame "friendship" reather than let's just join the big one so we can play the game.

I'm not saying this is good, or that I like it.

I'm saying this is precisely what Ashes of Creation is.

Look, I genuinely understand 'looking to Ashes of Creation to be the one MMO that solves the problems and provides a good experience for you'. That was why I backed it and why I learned everything I could about it.

But at some point you have to accept that, what you're looking for, this game ain't it and that's fine. Sure, it might be different for a little while, before everyone you meet in the open World is part of a huge alliance, but design wise that's what the game is about. That 1200 person Alliance number is not from some other game, that's the number of players in an Alliance in Ashes of Creation as it stands now.

So idk what to tell you, I doubt you want my 'condolences'. But do yourself a favor and don't expect this to be more your style than TL.

Gromlof

Azherae wrote: »

So idk what to tell you, I doubt you want my 'condolences'. But do yourself a favor and don't expect this to be more your style than TL.

Ill have to see that for myself

Pyrolol

The way Steven explained the corruption system in the dev vids earlier this year was more so an anti grieving format which makes sense. So for example kill same person x amount of times and turned corrupted or serial killer vibes.

In the Alpha right now, its kill 1 person become instantly corrupted and if you die you will lose 1-3 of your gear

It is a bit extreme at the moment, don’t know if they will scale it down but as it stands its a double edge sword just to kill someone and gain a few materials so it’s not even worth engaging in PvP and if someone attacks you its better to just run then risk becoming corrupted and dying

Azherae

Pyrolol wrote: »

The way Steven explained the corruption system in the dev vids earlier this year was more so an anti grieving format which makes sense. So for example kill same person x amount of times and turned corrupted or serial killer vibes.

This happens because people hear what they want to hear.

It is true that in the final version, you almost certainly won't have huge penalties from one PK, starting from a 0 PK count since your last 'cleansing' or whatever.

But they definitely have confirmed that they intend for you to be able to drop gear, at least, from any amount of Corruption and that's not just part of the current test. It may change, but it's the direction.

There are definitely some people who give other PvP players the wrong impression of this game by repeating only the parts that make it sound like Corruption is only intended to prevent 'griefing'. But that isn't how Steven generally explains it. He almost always includes just 'PK-ing' as a thing it is meant to discourage, now.

Anyways, that's enough 'due diligence' for me, don't wanna start a 'war of Wiki Quotes'.

"Corruption is also intended to discourage PK. Corruption is also overtuned in favor of NonCombatants for this phase of Alpha-2."

Pyrolol

Azherae wrote: »

Pyrolol wrote: »

The way Steven explained the corruption system in the dev vids earlier this year was more so an anti grieving format which makes sense. So for example kill same person x amount of times and turned corrupted or serial killer vibes.

This happens because people hear what they want to hear.

It is true that in the final version, you almost certainly won't have huge penalties from one PK, starting from a 0 PK count since your last 'cleansing' or whatever.

But they definitely have confirmed that they intend for you to be able to drop gear, at least, from any amount of Corruption and that's not just part of the current test. It may change, but it's the direction.

There are definitely some people who give other PvP players the wrong impression of this game by repeating only the parts that make it sound like Corruption is only intended to prevent 'griefing'. But that isn't how Steven generally explains it. He almost always includes just 'PK-ing' as a thing it is meant to discourage, now.

Anyways, that's enough 'due diligence' for me, don't wanna start a 'war of Wiki Quotes'.

"Corruption is also intended to discourage PK. Corruption is also overtuned in favor of NonCombatants for this phase of Alpha-2."

Whenever I brought up the Arena, I got argued with "Its all about the open world PvP", just for the entire alpha to be anti world PvP

Guess I'll wait for the Arena then 😂

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