Please do not make this a Theme park mmo

AOC has been a refreshing MMO even in alpha so far for me. This game is bringing a lot of things I have been hoping for in a MMO. There is a lot of hate due to how long this game has been in development vs other mmos development and release time.

Now for the title. I really really hope the devs do not make this a theme park game like WOW. A lot of us are tired of that type of mmo and looking for a good mix of old mmos and new ones. I played Asherons Call and Anarchy Online back in their hayday. Anarchy Online is actually still active believe it or not. Those MMOS bring a sandbox feeling that newer MMOs simply do not.

AOC right now in alpha does bring that feeling of a sandbox. Getting a group and picking a POI to go and grind mobs at is so refreshing and fun. Even running around solo and grinding mobs is a blast. Not only that, but it is creating great social circles of players that wouldn't happen with questing being the main focus of leveling like in WOW. One of the biggest gripes you will see about WOW now is the lack of social interactions between players. AOC right now has social interaction in spades because of how its structured right now.

Even when I run around solo I run into players grinding and stop and heal and help them out sometimes. Never felt the need to do that in other current mmos.

I did see a video of Steve and some devs talking about not wanting to make a grindy game. I would argue that AOC would be far better off with a leveling structure of 60% grind availability and 40% quest availability. Just look at videos and how people are talking about the AOC alpha right now. There is a good amount of people talking about the social aspect of the game because having to party up and grind in POI or even if its just you and a friend to go grind frogs, minotaurs, etc. This gives a sandbox feel to the game like old MMOS and gives a much higher social structure to the game for players. Once you put in a full 1-max level questing line like WOW that social structure now falls apart and is no longer needed.

I know some people will say well vanilla wow had lots of social interaction because you had to group at the dungeon stones and spam chat looking for other players which would cause interactions with other players you wouldn't otherwise. However I argue that type of system only brings 1% of the social interactions that the current grinding POI's and mobs does in the current AOC alpha. When quests are almost unavailable its forces players to group up with others they never would have on a constant basis.

I am not saying the game has to be a 100% grind, although players like me would be fine with that. I also am not stupid enough to not bring up the issue that once everyone is max level how do you group and grind POI's with new characters when most people are no longer in those areas leveling. This is where the 40% questing would come into play, where you could grind mobs and do enough questing that it would equal max level.

At least leave all the grinding spots in the game that are there right now with the same respawn timers to give people the option to grind if they feel like it. Use this information for future areas in the map as well.

Steve, where is our friends list. You said it would have been in already. Players keep meeting other players and we can't friend them. Please hurry up with this, my memory isn't good enough to remember these names lol.

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Dygz

Ashes is a Themebox MMORPG.
Friends List is a frequent request.

c0done

Is this guy ok?

SmileGurney

c0done wrote: »

Is this guy ok?

On the wall text stress level I give him ... 6/10 so he should be fine.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is a Themebox MMORPG.

Purely out of curiosity—not to start an argument.

Have you ever considered that great artists can be masters of their craft yet have a major blind spot when it comes to categorizing their own work within a genre?

I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. I’d rather someone focus on creating something new and interesting for the world, rather than worrying about how people will define it once it’s done.

Personally, I see little to no "theme park" elements in Ashes. Its four main inspirations—EVE Online, SWG, Lineage 2, and ArcheAge—are some of the most successful sandbox games in the genre.

You frequently post that Ashes is a "theme box MMORPG." I've seen you write this many times over the years. Each time, I wonder: is this your honest assessment of the game, or are you simply taking Steven's word at face value? Either way is perfectly valid—I’m just curious.

kadimir

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Have you ever considered that great artists can be masters of their craft yet have a major blind spot when it comes to categorizing their own work within a genre?

"We're not power metal" - Tony from Sonata Arctica

nanfoodle

Well ya got your wish to rock on.

Flashfirez23

I agree that ashes shouldn’t be a theme park. But I disagree that there should be a set way you should level. You should do what ever you like doing to level and have a variety of options to progress.

Laetitian

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is a Themebox MMORPG.

You frequently post that Ashes is a "theme box MMORPG." I've seen you write this many times over the years. Each time, I wonder: is this your honest assessment of the game, or are you simply taking Steven's word at face value? Either way is perfectly valid—I’m just curious.

Sandboxes are about players placing the settlements in the groups they connect with where you want them to be.
Sandboxes are about primarily creating storylines and world progression through player interactions with each other, rather than with the existing world and lore.
Sandboxes are about fighting about where you get to go, and resource distribution is almost entirely decided by who wins the fight over the guild's castle and warehouse. If you die, your stuff gets taken; perhaps not all of it, but the vast majority gets plundered, and your base gets taken over and relocated.

Ashes is a sand-park. It's clearly a much more accurate description. The map is predetermined (just the size and location of things gets moved around from node to node), nodes grow where players play, not where they decide to place their resources. Quests are curated, most sections of the map will be open to every player, and PvP outcomes are largely superficial except for consistent domination in defender-favoured, balanced, pre-scheduled events. PvX is mostly about contesting the loot of individual encounters.
Sand-park is certainly more accurate than sandbox. It's also arguably more accurate than themepark - you clearly won't disagree with me there, but I would actually struggle more defending the sandbox elements of Ashes than defending the themepark elements.

The one themepark element that Ashes will likely remain almost entirely clean of is automation/lobby-based, faceless LFG gameplay. It will probably also avoid dailies/events at every corner, and participation trophies; there will be penalties for failure, and higher risks will offer higher rewards. But we can't be sure about these last bits yet, from what we've seen in the development so far.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Personally, I see little to no "theme park" elements in Ashes. Its four main inspirations—EVE Online, SWG, Lineage 2, and ArcheAge—are some of the most successful sandbox games in the genre.

As far as PvP games go, Archeage was fairly solidly themepark.

You had your one quest line that was by far the fastest way to level up to the cap. At launch, most players had one avenue for getting top end gear. You had events every 2 hours that were planned out ahead of time. Then you had Halcyona every day, Mistmarrow, then the Luscas and such.

I mean, Archeage had a damn in game calander telling everyone when things were happening in game - that is even more themepark than WoW imo.

Sure, you could go off and do your own thing, but you were fairly heavily discouraged from doing so - just as is the case in any other open world themepark game.

And that is before we even get in to the events and such. People in Archeage were complaining that they would log in, get the stuff done in game that they felt they needed to do, and then had no time left to actually play the game.

Seriously, Archeage is kind of the poster child of a themepark PvP MMORPG.

Vhaeyne

@Noaani @Laetitian

The purpose of my post wasn't to dive into the trenches and start creating descriptions of other games. That’s been done to death on these forums.

There are things I agree with and disagree with in both of your posts, and I’m fine with that.

Genres are subjective descriptions used to categorize art, and unfortunately for all of us, they’re often controversial. I’m happy for the guy out there who considers WoW a sandbox game. He’s probably living his best life. A conversation with him might be frustrating for me, but that’s okay. When he’s organizing his games at home, he’s free to place WoW alongside all his other “sandbox” games.

I’ve heard terms like “Sandpark” and “Themebox” thrown around when describing Ashes. Many also use “PvP Gankbox” as a genre label, especially when they don’t understand the corruption system. I doubt there will ever be a universally agreed-upon genre for Ashes, apart from maybe “PvX game.”

What I really want to know is: are people simply taking Steven’s word for what he thinks the game is, or are they forming their own opinions to categorize Ashes?

Should we be jumping into conversations people are trying to have and hurling genres at them like definitions—as if they’re Thor’s hammer?

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

The purpose of my post wasn't to dive into the trenches and start creating descriptions of other games. That’s been done to death on these forums.

I agree - my point was that there were definitely very strong themepark aspects to at least one of the games that have influenced Ashes.

Along with Steven's notion of calling this game a themebox (or sandpark, I can't remember which), and then when you look at the notion of events all happening during server prime time, there are some definite themepark elements to the game.

Definately not enough to call it a themepark game, maybe not enough to call it a themebox (or sandpark), but there is definitely that influence and those elements.

Arya_Yeshe

Not that I think about this a lot, but I thought that it was supposed to be e themed park fantasy MMO, since you can't even create your own homes and can only use pre buit freeholds.

Dygz

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes is a Themebox MMORPG.

Purely out of curiosity—not to start an argument.

Have you ever considered that great artists can be masters of their craft yet have a major blind spot when it comes to categorizing their own work within a genre?

I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. I’d rather someone focus on creating something new and interesting for the world, rather than worrying about how people will define it once it’s done.

Personally, I see little to no "theme park" elements in Ashes. Its four main inspirations—EVE Online, SWG, Lineage 2, and ArcheAge—are some of the most successful sandbox games in the genre.

You frequently post that Ashes is a "theme box MMORPG." I've seen you write this many times over the years. Each time, I wonder: is this your honest assessment of the game, or are you simply taking Steven's word at face value? Either way is perfectly valid—I’m just curious.

Themebox means that dev curated Narrative and Story Arcs and the Events system (and Quests) are core aspects of the design - in addition to Sandbox elements.

Obviously, Alpha 2/Phase 1 - which is a stability test and not a content or Narrative test - is not going to have many Themepark elements implemented yet.

(I have no clue what you think Themepark elements are.)

I see no Rogues or Summoners or Dünir or Niküa or Renkai or Py'rai or Tulnar in Alpha 2/Phase 1, either.
That does not mean Ashes won't have them after the Betas are completed.

Vhaeyne

@Dygz

Thanks for humoring my curiosity.

Noaani

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Not that I think about this a lot, but I thought that it was supposed to be e themed park fantasy MMO, since you can't even create your own homes and can only use pre buit freeholds.

This is not at all the definition of themepark and sandbox.

A themepark MMO is one where a content path is made obvious. You get questlines that lead you from zone to zone, always knowing where to head next.

A sandbox MMO is a game where you are put in a world, that world has a set of rules (game physics, PvP flagging, that sort of thing), and you just go for it.

Ashes is set to be in between these two - a themebox (or sandpark). The theory there being the game world will be kind of like a sandbox, but there will also be questlines and such to assist in directing players around d the game world.

Otr

Slinkyb wrote: »

Now for the title. I really really hope the devs do not make this a theme park game like WOW.

I like your point of view.

senyaak

Slinkyb wrote: »

Even when I run around solo I run into players grinding and stop and heal and help them out sometimes. Never felt the need to do that in other current mmos.

The last 2 mmos I played - wow and TL are common for such things... There always someone dying from mobs or other players

seems like you played wrong games

Nemeses

Slinkyb wrote: »

AOC There is a lot of hate due to how long this game has been in development vs other mmos development and release time.

Why do children say this, its the new, look I'm 5 years old, and if you say something I don't like it must be hate, I'm telling mom!

bloody joke honestly grow up! maybe I'm just getting to old

but honestly could not read passed that

Its_Me

I would be ok with one roller coaster.... 🎢

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