Githal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Githal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Btw Githal would your suggestion also be keeping Node EXP entirely separate, or somehow rebalancing it? I mean that if group A follows the most efficient path and reaches level 20 and then starts fighting mobs and getting 700 Node EXP per fight, then their Node will automatically 'win' against any Group B that takes their time and only reaches level 12 and only gets 478 Node EXP per fight. But if you do the opposite then Group B can get a challenge clamp, so which is it? For me node exp should have nothing to do with players exp. I would even go as far as to say that doing regular quests in the node area should not increase the node level at all. Nor killing mobs, or clearing dungeons and ect. Node levels should be entirely from node commissions from the major, building structures in the node, winning node wars and sieges, also from the gold donations from taxes. In short: if you want to develop node - then dedicate yourself in developing it, even if it means you might fall behind in other areas. (but not fall behind on levels, I mean fall behind on professions for example) So node exp dont depend on player exp, but player exp does... or something like this Like whatever you do, you should be able to get levels, but If you focus on nodes - then you develop nodes you can focus on professions - where you get professions maxed while leveling with it if you focus on quests or grinding mobs - then you get quest rewards/ rewards from mob drops that can be- gold, mats, full items Caravans - primary gold + node commodities Bosses/ dungeons - Bigger risk from dying = better loot drops (but less quantity) I even like the idea of being able to level up from pvp, but maybe this will be abused too much, so probably better not. Wouldn't this create a situation where one group is raising the Node, but another is gaining most of the benefits (in this case, assume both groups are Citizens)? Other games like this have multiple systems to handle this, but Ashes doesn't have any, are you suggesting that Intrepid change up the incentive structure too? Some other solution is to make citizenship connected to the contribution to developing the node So for excampl Player X and Y both start developing a node and both become citizens. Then player X decides to focus on professions while player Y continues developing the node. At some point Player Z comes who makes more contribution to the node than player X, and since the node no longer has any available citizenship spots, Player Z takes player X spot. And player X is moved down to some of the vasal nodes (moving his freeholds and everything connected) ofc there needs to be some point where after you do X amount of contribution to a node at particular level, then you your citizenship cant be overtaken anymore, but to reach this you need some huge dedication, And also the citizens that started doing contribution from early node levels should have increased contribution compared to those who start later. For example: completing 1 node commission at town level can give you 10 contribution, and completing the same commission at city level gives you 5 contribution.
Azherae wrote: » Githal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Btw Githal would your suggestion also be keeping Node EXP entirely separate, or somehow rebalancing it? I mean that if group A follows the most efficient path and reaches level 20 and then starts fighting mobs and getting 700 Node EXP per fight, then their Node will automatically 'win' against any Group B that takes their time and only reaches level 12 and only gets 478 Node EXP per fight. But if you do the opposite then Group B can get a challenge clamp, so which is it? For me node exp should have nothing to do with players exp. I would even go as far as to say that doing regular quests in the node area should not increase the node level at all. Nor killing mobs, or clearing dungeons and ect. Node levels should be entirely from node commissions from the major, building structures in the node, winning node wars and sieges, also from the gold donations from taxes. In short: if you want to develop node - then dedicate yourself in developing it, even if it means you might fall behind in other areas. (but not fall behind on levels, I mean fall behind on professions for example) So node exp dont depend on player exp, but player exp does... or something like this Like whatever you do, you should be able to get levels, but If you focus on nodes - then you develop nodes you can focus on professions - where you get professions maxed while leveling with it if you focus on quests or grinding mobs - then you get quest rewards/ rewards from mob drops that can be- gold, mats, full items Caravans - primary gold + node commodities Bosses/ dungeons - Bigger risk from dying = better loot drops (but less quantity) I even like the idea of being able to level up from pvp, but maybe this will be abused too much, so probably better not. Wouldn't this create a situation where one group is raising the Node, but another is gaining most of the benefits (in this case, assume both groups are Citizens)? Other games like this have multiple systems to handle this, but Ashes doesn't have any, are you suggesting that Intrepid change up the incentive structure too?
Githal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Btw Githal would your suggestion also be keeping Node EXP entirely separate, or somehow rebalancing it? I mean that if group A follows the most efficient path and reaches level 20 and then starts fighting mobs and getting 700 Node EXP per fight, then their Node will automatically 'win' against any Group B that takes their time and only reaches level 12 and only gets 478 Node EXP per fight. But if you do the opposite then Group B can get a challenge clamp, so which is it? For me node exp should have nothing to do with players exp. I would even go as far as to say that doing regular quests in the node area should not increase the node level at all. Nor killing mobs, or clearing dungeons and ect. Node levels should be entirely from node commissions from the major, building structures in the node, winning node wars and sieges, also from the gold donations from taxes. In short: if you want to develop node - then dedicate yourself in developing it, even if it means you might fall behind in other areas. (but not fall behind on levels, I mean fall behind on professions for example) So node exp dont depend on player exp, but player exp does... or something like this Like whatever you do, you should be able to get levels, but If you focus on nodes - then you develop nodes you can focus on professions - where you get professions maxed while leveling with it if you focus on quests or grinding mobs - then you get quest rewards/ rewards from mob drops that can be- gold, mats, full items Caravans - primary gold + node commodities Bosses/ dungeons - Bigger risk from dying = better loot drops (but less quantity) I even like the idea of being able to level up from pvp, but maybe this will be abused too much, so probably better not.
Azherae wrote: » Btw Githal would your suggestion also be keeping Node EXP entirely separate, or somehow rebalancing it? I mean that if group A follows the most efficient path and reaches level 20 and then starts fighting mobs and getting 700 Node EXP per fight, then their Node will automatically 'win' against any Group B that takes their time and only reaches level 12 and only gets 478 Node EXP per fight. But if you do the opposite then Group B can get a challenge clamp, so which is it?
Azherae wrote: » Githal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Githal wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Btw Githal would your suggestion also be keeping Node EXP entirely separate, or somehow rebalancing it? I mean that if group A follows the most efficient path and reaches level 20 and then starts fighting mobs and getting 700 Node EXP per fight, then their Node will automatically 'win' against any Group B that takes their time and only reaches level 12 and only gets 478 Node EXP per fight. But if you do the opposite then Group B can get a challenge clamp, so which is it? For me node exp should have nothing to do with players exp. I would even go as far as to say that doing regular quests in the node area should not increase the node level at all. Nor killing mobs, or clearing dungeons and ect. Node levels should be entirely from node commissions from the major, building structures in the node, winning node wars and sieges, also from the gold donations from taxes. In short: if you want to develop node - then dedicate yourself in developing it, even if it means you might fall behind in other areas. (but not fall behind on levels, I mean fall behind on professions for example) So node exp dont depend on player exp, but player exp does... or something like this Like whatever you do, you should be able to get levels, but If you focus on nodes - then you develop nodes you can focus on professions - where you get professions maxed while leveling with it if you focus on quests or grinding mobs - then you get quest rewards/ rewards from mob drops that can be- gold, mats, full items Caravans - primary gold + node commodities Bosses/ dungeons - Bigger risk from dying = better loot drops (but less quantity) I even like the idea of being able to level up from pvp, but maybe this will be abused too much, so probably better not. Wouldn't this create a situation where one group is raising the Node, but another is gaining most of the benefits (in this case, assume both groups are Citizens)? Other games like this have multiple systems to handle this, but Ashes doesn't have any, are you suggesting that Intrepid change up the incentive structure too? Some other solution is to make citizenship connected to the contribution to developing the node So for excampl Player X and Y both start developing a node and both become citizens. Then player X decides to focus on professions while player Y continues developing the node. At some point Player Z comes who makes more contribution to the node than player X, and since the node no longer has any available citizenship spots, Player Z takes player X spot. And player X is moved down to some of the vasal nodes (moving his freeholds and everything connected) ofc there needs to be some point where after you do X amount of contribution to a node at particular level, then you your citizenship cant be overtaken anymore, but to reach this you need some huge dedication, And also the citizens that started doing contribution from early node levels should have increased contribution compared to those who start later. For example: completing 1 node commission at town level can give you 10 contribution, and completing the same commission at city level gives you 5 contribution. Well, that would be the exact opposite approach of every successful implementation of anything like this I've seen or discussed with anyone... So obviously I'm wary of it. It has a pretty potent negative effect on player engagement among the people I know, but if the target audience of Ashes is really competitive, maybe it'd work. I don't think the game should go as far as 'Yeah I know you did all that work but then had to go do something IRL so you're a Vassal Citizen now'. Seems more like a 'discomfort logout' moment (even if not a full quit moment) and Ashes is already packed to the brim with those and very few of the opposite.
Githal wrote: » Also just because you gonna follow a guide to be with 1-2 levels ahead of those who dont follow guide, doesnt mean other players will do the same. Yes there will always be min maxers. and there will always be those who dont like following guides.
Vhaeyne wrote: » @Lodrig Modern RPGs should abandon experience points is an very extremist position. To me leveling is not as much a learning process, but a earning process. No matter how hard you want to advocate for easy levels. I will advocate for a slower harder grind. It could take a month to hit level 10 and I still would want a slower grind.
Lodrig wrote: » My susgestion is completly agnostic to time and difficulty of the leveling process. And if your opinion is always for something to be pushed to an extreme without any thought to what a proper mean is then your the extremist by definition.
BigBadAardwolf wrote: » The game should incentivize you to explore the world and do different activities all the time. Touch my XP by grinding and I will put you through a window
The game should incentivize you to explore the world and do different activities all the time.
Githal wrote: » Another solution is to make leveling easy, but have level cap that increases each day. For example: First day at launch the cap is lvl 10, And after this every day the cap increase by 2 level. So after 20 days you get max level. Pros: * New players that join later have chance to catch up to older players (not age, but time played ) * Easy to make ALT characters, without the need to spend 100 more hours * The time it would take to reach max level will be same as it is now * No lifers wont have that great of a level advantage than average working people with few kids * More time to spend on other activities like Caravan runs/ developing nodes/ PVP / killing bosses and ect * More fair environment where most players will be same level, so all other activities + the pvp will be a lot more fair * Chance to experience more of the AOC world, Since atm you rush levels, meaning you skip doing a lot dungeons and other mob zones. Or even if you dont skip them you will be too high level to have a good experience there. * You wont feel pressured to farming levels, and wont have the feeling that you are being left behind, just coz you do something you love that is other than grinding levels.
Githal wrote: » Githal wrote: » Another solution is to make leveling easy, but have level cap that increases each day. For example: First day at launch the cap is lvl 10, And after this every day the cap increase by 2 level. So after 20 days you get max level. Pros: * New players that join later have chance to catch up to older players (not age, but time played ) * Easy to make ALT characters, without the need to spend 100 more hours * The time it would take to reach max level will be same as it is now * No lifers wont have that great of a level advantage than average working people with few kids * More time to spend on other activities like Caravan runs/ developing nodes/ PVP / killing bosses and ect * More fair environment where most players will be same level, so all other activities + the pvp will be a lot more fair * Chance to experience more of the AOC world, Since atm you rush levels, meaning you skip doing a lot dungeons and other mob zones. Or even if you dont skip them you will be too high level to have a good experience there. * You wont feel pressured to farming levels, and wont have the feeling that you are being left behind, just coz you do something you love that is other than grinding levels. I think my other solution may be easier to implement, and still serve the required role of removing mindless grinding.
Noaani wrote: » Githal wrote: » Githal wrote: » Another solution is to make leveling easy, but have level cap that increases each day. For example: First day at launch the cap is lvl 10, And after this every day the cap increase by 2 level. So after 20 days you get max level. Pros: * New players that join later have chance to catch up to older players (not age, but time played ) * Easy to make ALT characters, without the need to spend 100 more hours * The time it would take to reach max level will be same as it is now * No lifers wont have that great of a level advantage than average working people with few kids * More time to spend on other activities like Caravan runs/ developing nodes/ PVP / killing bosses and ect * More fair environment where most players will be same level, so all other activities + the pvp will be a lot more fair * Chance to experience more of the AOC world, Since atm you rush levels, meaning you skip doing a lot dungeons and other mob zones. Or even if you dont skip them you will be too high level to have a good experience there. * You wont feel pressured to farming levels, and wont have the feeling that you are being left behind, just coz you do something you love that is other than grinding levels. I think my other solution may be easier to implement, and still serve the required role of removing mindless grinding. Why implement such a convoluted, pointless system that only affects the first 20 days of a game that should have a life of 2000+ days?
Githal wrote: » The way i see AOC - leveling should be an afterthought. Leveling should be in the way of achievements! For example you gain 1 level up every time you complete 1 of the following FOR THE FIRST TIME. * you complete some big quest story line * participate in upgrading node to town / city / metropolis (1 for each) * Level up your profession * explore region * complete caravan run * kill world boss * clear dungeon * win node war / guild war / siege * get 50 pvp kills and so on. Ofc the number of ways you can get levels should be more than 50. so you are not forced to do an activity you dont like. This doesnt mean that the leveling will be fast. It can even be made slower than it is now. just it will be much better than farming the same spot of mobs for hours. The game should incentivize you to explore the world and do different activities all the time.
Githal wrote: » The way i see AOC - leveling should be an afterthought. Leveling should be in the way of achievements! For example you gain 1 level up every time you complete 1 of the following FOR THE FIRST TIME. * you complete some big quest story line * participate in upgrading node to town / city / metropolis (1 for each) * Level up your profession * explore region * complete caravan run * kill world boss * clear dungeon * win node war / guild war / siege * get 50 pvp kills and so on. Ofc the number of ways you can get levels should be more than 50. so you are not forced to do an activity you don't like. This doesn't mean that the leveling will be fast. It can even be made slower than it is now. just it will be much better than farming the same spot of mobs for hours. The game should incentivize you to explore the world and do different activities all the time.
Dygz wrote: » I don't understand your [flawed] reasoning for have alts. The reason to have alts in an RPG is to experience the game from the perspectives of different characters who each have different traits, abilities, interests and relationships. Alts don't have to reach max Level.
Githal wrote: » At that point a lot of players will just quit the game instead spending70 more hours grinding
Vhaeyne wrote: » Githal wrote: » At that point a lot of players will just quit the game instead spending70 more hours grinding Imagine being so weak of will power that a 70 hours of content is a bridge too far.
Githal wrote: » Delusion gone too far in this community. Why would i do 70 hours BORING grinding second time? Like it doesnt even matter how good the end game content is. If i have to do something mindless as staying at 1 place killing the same mob for the 800000 time - i am out.
Vhaeyne wrote: » Githal wrote: » Delusion gone too far in this community. Why would i do 70 hours BORING grinding second time? Like it doesnt even matter how good the end game content is. If i have to do something mindless as staying at 1 place killing the same mob for the 800000 time - i am out. The community is wrong... The game is BORING. I hope you have fun with whatever you end up doing. I am having fun grinding on Ashes myself.
