Store Fronts are Awful

Just your standard auction house please. No need to reinvent the wheel!!

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CROW3 wrote: »

Meh, stalls seem fine. They basically operate like a node-based AH as is, just need to make sure that search index is accurate.

Could be worse - like the player stalls in ESO that require you to check each one in each city. Not sure if that’s changed but it was a pita.

What?

Stalls right now are like L2 trade system.

I don't know why u compare it with TESO.
There were not player Stalls in TESO, it was guild Stalls. A number limited on each city so at the end u did go solo to the 2-3 "big markets".

I think here will happen the same, it will trend to concentrate in a few places and we will have thousands of people in the Bazar shouting and scammming each other.
So hot

Vhaeyne

I believe this is one of the things Steven considers to be "core" to Ashes of Creation.

Much like the name "Tank," I’m pretty sure the guy investing $45 million to make his dream a reality doesn’t particularly care if you prefer auction houses.

To provide some context for where I think Steven is coming from:

That is Giran from Lineage 2.

I know everyone thinks Ashes of Creation is inspired by ArcheAge, but as I understand it, much of the team behind ArcheAge originally came from Lineage 2. They seem to have left some of the magic of Lineage 2 behind to "modernize" their new project.

One example of that magic is the market system.

I’m pretty sure what we have now is a placeholder for a more organized version of the Lineage 2 system:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_stalls

The current placeholder also has a search function that works very well. It makes things way easier than they were in Lineage 2—almost too easy to find good deals.

CROW3

Lucascp92 wrote: »

What?

Stalls right now are like L2 trade system.

I don't know why u compare it with TESO.
There were not player Stalls in TESO, it was guild Stalls.

Ok. Appreciate the correction. Player or guild, the point was decentralized v. centralized markets. Decentralized is fine as long as it’s easy on both sides of the trade.

I think complex for the sake of complex at the cost of fun is just silly.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

To provide some context for where I think Steven is coming from:

Yes, the worst system possible, from a game that didn't shy away from doing things in the worst way possible.

I'm also not sure why you are phrasing it as "where Steven is coming from".

The current store fronts are not the eventual limit of how to buy and sell in Ashes. We know the game is set to have player stalls, personal shops, and auction houses.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I know everyone thinks Ashes of Creation is inspired by ArcheAge, but as I understand it, much of the team behind ArcheAge originally came from Lineage 2. They seem to have left some of the magic of Lineage 2 behind to "modernize" their new project.

Yes, this is true.

One of the things they wanted to do in Archeage was make the games economy much more interesting. Farming, packs tp run, the way crafting worked etc. This was second only to EVE in terms of an MMORPG economy.

One of the key aspects of that was not just in implementing a marketplace to facilitate trade, but also in setting that market up to function cross server, so as to expand the pool of both buyers and sellers.

Ashes is indeed pulling things from both L2 and Archeage. However, the main thing this game is pulling from Archeage is that games economy.

The marketplace in Archeage was key to that game economy functioning. Steven knows this, that is why the game will have similar function in it's auction house system.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

Yes, the worst system possible, from a game that didn't shy away from doing things in the worst way possible.

We get it... You don't like Lineage 2...

It is a real shame that the game you have spent years of your life on the forums for has a Lineage 2 fanboy as it's creative director.

Noaani wrote: »

I'm also not sure why you are phrasing it as "where Steven is coming from".

It seems very clear to me that he wants to bring the magic of looking for deals in Giran to Ashes.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

It seems very clear to me that he wants to bring the magic of looking for deals in Giran to Ashes.

I'm sure he does.

However, since an auction and/or market is going to be present in Ashes, those storefronts are only going to be used when a given portion of a server is in a situation where it doesn't have a better market. People will use them only because the better system the game offers isn't currently available to them.

People are going to resent it.

Sounds magic to me...

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

I'm sure he does.

However, since an auction and/or market is going to be present in Ashes, those storefronts are only going to be used when a given portion of a server is in a situation where it doesn't have a better market. People will use them only because the better system the game offers isn't currently available to them.

People are going to resent it.

Sounds magic to me...

Auction houses will be limited to economic nodes. If there are other economic nodes within a linked network, you’ll be able to place remote bids. However, you’ll still need to manually travel to the location where the item is sold to retrieve it—anything else would be game-breaking.

The other three node types will feature the magic of the stall system.

I don’t think most players will resent this system. At worst, it might be an acquired taste that many modern MMORPG players haven’t experienced. It may seem frustrating at first, but it’s actually a well-loved system.

For example, FFXI had both a true auction house system and player stalls. Both were used extensively, even in the game’s largest towns. Most people can’t resist browsing player stalls for deals, which adds to the game’s charm.

The main issue with player shops in games like Lineage 2 and FFXI was that your character had to remain physically present in one place to attract traffic. Ashes of Creation solves this problem by eliminating the need for characters to stay in one spot when in towns.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Auction houses will be limited to economic nodes. If there are other economic nodes within a linked network, you’ll be able to place remote bids. However, you’ll still need to manually travel to the location where the item is sold to retrieve it—anything else would be game-breaking.

You are perhaps a little misinformed here, or maybe just missing one or two pieces of information. This may have changed from when you were more active here, I'm unsure.

When listing on an auction house, the materials you are selling (so, harvested goods, processed goods etc) are automatically put in the warehouse of the node you list them in. When a purchaser buys these materials, that is where they pick them up from.

Thus, if you are purchasing many different materials, or a lot of any one given material, you would only ever consider doing this at one of these auction houses, as that means you only have one location to pick up from - the warehouse of the node you are shopping from (you may have to filter out products listed from vassal nodes).

Anyone purchasing materials that fall in to this catagory will only ever want to buy from an auction house/market. The time required to acquire the same materials if you have to go to each individual stall to pick them up would take up too much of your time.

On the other hand, when it comes to items other than those that are subject to the games caravan/stupid inventory system, the items you purchase are just mailed to you.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

It may seem frustrating at first, but it’s actually a well-loved system.

Yeah, but people also love WoW's LFG system, despite how bad it is for the game.

The problem with a market system like this is that the product type for it dosen't exist.

A large central marketplace or auction house is what you want when the game generates the item, and the player is just selling it. Purely transactional, there is no customization, no nothing. You list an item that is the same as everyone elses version of that item that they have listed, and a buyer comes in and picks which of that identicle item they wish to buy.

Most MMORPG's only have this type of item, and so should only have this type of economic system.

Then you have purely bespoke items - or mostly bespoke items. Items that the person creating the item can customize to a large degree, and where players will want their own customization on them. Ashes will have some of these items (in theory) with crafting. Since these items are often made specifically for the player that is buying them, this kind of item needs a commission/escrow system, which the game will also have.

Then you have a middle ground. Items that are somewhat customised, but not for each buyer. This would be like an Etsy shop, or going to a farmers market - the probuct is unique to the seller, but each version of that product from the seller is the same (ie, not bespoke).

This is the kind of product that would make sense to sell in a player stall or personal shop, but it is a type of item that (as far as we know) doesn't exist in Ashes. Examples that could fit in to this are things like items with player uploaded images (flags, canvases etc), or consumables that players can earn exclusive rights to (either temporarily or permanantly).

These are things where the product is inherently linked to the seller, and so going to that sellers shop to get that specific thing makes sense. It doesn't make sense to go to a players shop to buy [generic_helm_104], and it doesn't make sense for a player with a shop to list an item for sale that has bespoke stats.

Forcing players to use sub-optimal systems for no real gain, but for a significant loss (that screenshot above is a detriment to any game, not a positive) absolutely will generate resentment.

Ashes has the items and systems for the large central maarketplace to make sense, and for the commission/escrow system to make sense, yet it doesn't have the items for the play stall or store front to make sense. This means most players will look at the whole system as being little more than punishment for not having a nearby economic node of sufficient level to have a better marketplace. People aren't going to look at it as "adding charm" to the game, because the player stalls (when they are implemented) will just be staffed by NPC's anyway, and people will likely switch from personal shops to player stalls when they realize that they are subject to PvP while staffing their personal shop.

Veeshan

you get AH when a economy node becomes a metro or something

Noaani

Veeshan wrote: »

you get AH when a economy node becomes a metro or something

Stage 4 is when you can build it.

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