Crafting is not the best gear

Best gear is the gear you can get. Vast majority of players are finding crafting out of their reach. Crafting requires so much time, casuel players have to pick between leveling at the same rate as their friends or progress crafting. Crafters that are getting these systems have a hard time selling items. Current market system is only slightly helpful. Or selling an item means you need to travel 20+ min to get to your buyer.

Most people don't have access to crafted gear for many of the reasons I listed above. This is before you get to the frustration of finding things like copper and rubies. Or how convoluted the crafting system is or how not fun the crafting interface is.

So the best gear is the rare drops you can get from mobs. It's the majority of what people are playing with.

Then you have the highly organized exporters that train you and take the crafting resources you find. That corner the market with supplies they have used griefing tactics to get.

All this comes down to one thing. The common player feels frustrated and not having fun.

Grinding is the main way to level for now. I get more is coming but this is compounded with the fact that grinding is also how most people are gearing up.

This is not fun. IMO crafting needs to become easier to do and succeed at. Crafters need easier ways to get to buyers. By a better market (get this is a place holder) as what we have now is also anything but fun or intuitive. Resources need to be easier to access. If there is lots of things like copper, fix why most people can't get it.

Im a master crafter from ESO and I'm spinning my wheels in this game and I know I am not alone. It's the compound of all the problems listed above that makes this untenable for most.

If there is something you want to do to keep testers playing. Fix this and give us LFG tools.

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Comments

nanfoodle

Dygz wrote: »

I mean... right now, Alpha 2 is still mostly a stability test.
Crafting is not any where near being balanced to represent the intent for release.

But we have hear Steven say things like copper are working as intended. We have the copper we need. I personally think it's more complicated than that. And that Intrepid Studios is missing where this is a problem and not correcting that instead. And this is not a big deal you're right this is Alpha 2. Except for there's over 100,000 of us according to Steven. And many are taking breaks because they are sick of banging their head on this wall.

CROW3

nanfoodle wrote: »

But we have hear Steven say things like copper are working as intended. We have the copper we need. I personally think it's more complicated than that.

Let’s play a math game…

1. There isn’t enough copper available
2. The copper distribution is working as intended

Based on the information we know anout Ashes and Alpha 2, what conditions would allow both statement to be true?

nanfoodle

CROW3 wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

But we have hear Steven say things like copper are working as intended. We have the copper we need. I personally think it's more complicated than that.

Let’s play a math game…

1. There isn’t enough copper available
2. The copper distribution is working as intended

Based on the information we know anout Ashes and Alpha 2, what conditions would allow both statement to be true?

It's from IS mouth.

1. There is enough copper being gathered but not being distributed once it has been collected.
2. Player population saying I can't find Copper

I know I have spent hours and hours looking and trying to find it. I have even trid what was suggested on mining other resources to try and get copper to spawn. In 2 hours I did a week or so ago I did not find a single copper node that way.

My guess is that something else is happening that is stopping Copper from getting to the people once it's been collected. And I'm not saying that there isn't enough copper. What I'm saying is if there is enough copper in the game what does Intrepid Studios need to do to get it in the hands of the players?

As requested by Steven they want us to tell them the problems and not the answer. All I did was put a bunch of problems together that many people are talking about including my guild. I don't care what the solution is I'm just letting them know where many people stand right now.

Because when it comes down to it in the end this is a compound problems that is making a bigger situation.

nanfoodle

update mining things like Basalt and granite will randomly give you a chance to get copper zinc or Ruby when mining Tier 1 Stone gatherables.

Woot

That's a movement in the right direction

Vhaeyne

nanfoodle wrote: »

update mining things like Basalt and granite will randomly give you a chance to get copper zinc or Ruby when mining Tier 1 Stone gatherables.

Woot

That's a movement in the right direction

Try a map...

nanfoodle

Vhaeyne wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

update mining things like Basalt and granite will randomly give you a chance to get copper zinc or Ruby when mining Tier 1 Stone gatherables.

Woot

That's a movement in the right direction

Try a map...

Ty Dora

Lucascp92

nanfoodle wrote: »

update mining things like Basalt and granite will randomly give you a chance to get copper zinc or Ruby when mining Tier 1 Stone gatherables.

i like it. Let's see how it turns out

Vhaeyne

nanfoodle wrote: »

Then make green and blue crafted items be less stressful to get and legendary be what it is. The path does not need to become easy. It needs to be more friendly and intuitive.

Green and blue are way less stressful.

I do agree with your general thought though.

The issue I am having with crafting is that yellow through orange all feel equally as rare. And they don't feel rare enough. Maybe I am just lucky though.

RonDog98 wrote: »

Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way.

I just don't ever see that many quests being available outside of commissions.

RonDog98 wrote: »

It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it.

It really doesn't matter to me what side of the opinions I am on. It is not like that is going to change my opinion. I like to put time and effort into these games. If everything is going to be handed to me then I want out.

I think I can get journeymen in any craft except animal husbandry less than a day of play without stress. It really is not even about the journey yet. I have met lots of people who have made GM since the 20th. Just seems too easy.

nanfoodle

Vhaeyne wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Then make green and blue crafted items be less stressful to get and legendary be what it is. The path does not need to become easy. It needs to be more friendly and intuitive.

Green and blue are way less stressful.

I do agree with your general thought though.

The issue I am having with crafting is that yellow through orange all feel equally as rare. And they don't feel rare enough. Maybe I am just lucky though.

RonDog98 wrote: »

Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way.

I just don't ever see that many quests being available outside of commissions.

RonDog98 wrote: »

It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it.

It really doesn't matter to me what side of the opinions I am on. It is not like that is going to change my opinion. I like to put time and effort into these games. If everything is going to be handed to me then I want out.

I think I can get journeymen in any craft except animal husbandry less than a day of play without stress. It really is not even about the journey yet. I have met lots of people who have made GM since the 20th. Just seems too easy.

I do want crafting to be epic, I just don't think all of it needs to be epic. You can have best in slot that takes a guild doing raids, world bosses and the like to get that item. But still have crafters be the gate to green, blues and purple scaling in difficulty. Making it worth it to make and buy.

Make more crafting supplies drop from mobs scaling to the difficulty of the mob. Field trash greens with rare blies, dungeons blues and purples as rare drops. World bosses dropping the legendary mats and a bunch of purples.

A system like that would have crafters wanted more. People picking or armor drops as place holders for crafted items but still have people killing all sorts of NPCs to feed crafters.

Can you picture any crafter getting upset when every player knows what goes into each item because they are looking them up online for where they drop?

Azherae

nanfoodle wrote: »

update mining things like Basalt and granite will randomly give you a chance to get copper zinc or Ruby when mining Tier 1 Stone gatherables.

Woot

That's a movement in the right direction

There we go...

And that, in turn, will maybe 'help' to make really high tiers of Copper and Zinc stay the same or less available, while not unbalancing the availability of the lower tiers for general crafting.

I'd say 'it's a start', but it's just what they told us we'd get back in the Gathering Showcase back then, so, just more indicators that they still intend to do what they said, just haven't gotten to it all yet.

nanfoodle

Azherae wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

update mining things like Basalt and granite will randomly give you a chance to get copper zinc or Ruby when mining Tier 1 Stone gatherables.

Woot

That's a movement in the right direction

There we go...

And that, in turn, will maybe 'help' to make really high tiers of Copper and Zinc stay the same or less available, while not unbalancing the availability of the lower tiers for general crafting.

I'd say 'it's a start', but it's just what they told us we'd get back in the Gathering Showcase back then, so, just more indicators that they still intend to do what they said, just haven't gotten to it all yet.

Could have been something on the back end they needed to implemented they were working on.

Dygz

nanfoodle wrote: »

Many are taking breaks because they are sick of banging their head on this wall.

It's OK to take a break when you feel you need a break.

nanfoodle

Dygz wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Many are taking breaks because they are sick of banging their head on this wall.

It's OK to take a break when you feel you need a break.

Sorry miss read your reply

nanfoodle

IMO it's better they are here giving feedback. Finding bugs. Telling them what they think is fun. Telling IS what they don't enjoy. Steven needs to filter from that but..

LordManmode

I honestly see your point. Crafting right is in a very complicated place.

tinukeda

Complexity and difficulty aside, how about crafting producing worse results than loot dropped gear?
Heroic Tin Shortbow has worse stats than a green Forsaken Blades Shortbow?
Glad I wasted all that time collecting mats when I could have just dropped 60 silver in a market.

bigassgun

tinukeda wrote: »

Complexity and difficulty aside, how about crafting producing worse results than loot dropped gear?
Heroic Tin Shortbow has worse stats than a green Forsaken Blades Shortbow?
Glad I wasted all that time collecting mats when I could have just dropped 60 silver in a market.

"Help, i decided to craft a higher rarity but lower tier item however the higher tier item with lower rarity is still better because it's a higher tier item. This is certainly not my fault, it's the game's fault."

P.S. ashescodex

Veeshan

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Two things to consider:

1.
Focusing on the journey and not the destination may be helpful with this frustration. You can get crafted gear. Some are saying its too easy.

Like legendary does not feel legendary because its too easy to get.

2.
Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever.

We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif

Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick.

I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything.

make mobs only drop white quality stuff

tinukeda

bigassgun wrote: »

"Help, i decided to craft a higher rarity but lower tier item however the higher tier item with lower rarity is still better because it's a higher tier item. This is certainly not my fault, it's the game's fault."

P.S. ashescodex

Define how you're using "tier"?
Both items are level 10 req, so is that not the same tier?
Yes, the codex is useful

Xeeg

bigassgun wrote: »

tinukeda wrote: »

Complexity and difficulty aside, how about crafting producing worse results than loot dropped gear?
Heroic Tin Shortbow has worse stats than a green Forsaken Blades Shortbow?
Glad I wasted all that time collecting mats when I could have just dropped 60 silver in a market.

"Help, i decided to craft a higher rarity but lower tier item however the higher tier item with lower rarity is still better because it's a higher tier item. This is certainly not my fault, it's the game's fault."

P.S. ashescodex

Really shouldn't have to rely on 3rd party websites to play the game effectively. Players should be able to plan their progression from the game UI itself, in my opinion. I know they aren't at that phase yet, but hope that it is planned for.

I know that there is some segment of the population that wants in-game knowledge to be obscure and difficult to find out, so people need to keep spreadsheets and document things and share knowledge between each other. Part of this game design might actually be based around this idea. And there are definitely appropriate information layers for this kind of design.

The combat is fun, I think most people agree on that. So if they can manage a consensus on that part of the game, surely they can try to get the other parts of the game into a similar place. Personally, I think that is going to mean a slick UI, lots of in-game knowledge resources, and planning tools to optimize your character progression.

The most frustrating thing about copper is that if you cant find it, you cant find out how the spawn system works. So you waste hours and cant even know if you are doing anything right or wrong.

If you ever did find one, I guess you should stop and wait around until it spawns again to get some data? OK, sure, some people will do that and find it "fun". But really? Standing still for 2 hours waiting for a respawn in this game is "fun"? Fuck that!

Watching paint dry can't be Steven's Vision for the game.

To reiterate, I hope they take a good in depth look at which information should be gated behind which activity. Then make sure the activities are appropriate for the information, so that players have have a more satisfying experience.

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