Volgaris wrote: » Caravans is a group activity. Strongly disagree with taking making them something you can do solo. What's next a solo castle siege? Even you can't get gather players to help protect your caravan you can still join in on someone else's caravan defense/attack. The adhoc nature of it is good and bad, but it allows you to participate in the activity. i like this design (though not really working atm). Most caravan events will be organized by a group of players or a guild. I agree with Crow3 your trying to frame this as a causal issue, but it's really a PvP issue.
eyawn wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Caravans is a group activity. Strongly disagree with taking making them something you can do solo. What's next a solo castle siege? Even you can't get gather players to help protect your caravan you can still join in on someone else's caravan defense/attack. The adhoc nature of it is good and bad, but it allows you to participate in the activity. i like this design (though not really working atm). Most caravan events will be organized by a group of players or a guild. I agree with Crow3 your trying to frame this as a causal issue, but it's really a PvP issue. making them solo? it just needs to be closer matched. as it stand now, if you're just starting out, and at level 10 you get told to do a caravan by the game. but the players say no... then that is restrictive on the economy. as the ganker who's killing low levels doesn't get punished for it. likely is well over the 1-2 gold that they'd get, so that's not needed. so if there's no risk, and no reward for the ganking player, why is that even happening? what's the risk for a level 25 to kill a level 10? now that level 10 might be buying something on the market, but not any more, because the guy now has 101 gold as opposed to 100 gold. so the whole interaction should have never happened. but clowns are like "this is good, this is PVP" which it isn't, that's like saying someone robbed a baby, and is now a kingpin at being a theif . .... no one wins when ya punch down.
Gyn wrote: » But right now, the only low risk option is straight selling your glint to a vendor. It just feels like doodoo to go grind monsters, to just sell your gains to a vendor like grey trash in WoW.
keenow wrote: » I dunno. All I've done is solo caravans and I haven't lost one yet. I even hopped out of my caravan at one point, left mine on the roadside, to defend another caravan that was being attacked; still didn't lose mine somehow. I really don't enjoy the caravans because of speed, time, and forced necessity. I'd enjoy them less if I were losing loot. When mules are released, I'll probably abandon the caravan system altogether. They're advertised as this group play event, but the only side that ever has numbers is the attackers, because it's not practical to spam in general or city or anywhere public that I'm about to launch a caravan. It's too risky. Getting a defender group is hard, unless you join a caravan of caravans through a guild. One box of the lowest commodity (3s6c?) from Halcyon to New Aela was about 36s on arrival. If I had a full group of defenders, I'd be making 1.5s in profit for a 3+ hour trip if we split evenly. And any defenders would be making 4-ish silver for a 3+ hour trip. That's not including that you often don't even know what you will make upon arrival. Really doesn't feel worth it for any defenders. Ever. It's scrap change at best. On the other side, attackers can get groups together without risk. They can attack and overtake the caravan with lowered risk, because of lack of defenders (because of lack of defender incentives.) At worst, they risk armor repair, but so do the defenders, and they don't really risk it if they always outnumber the defenders, and you only attack caravans that you can see that you can out number or overpower (out-level) and will leave well-defended caravans alone. So there's not really any risk when the only attacks happen when there is no risk for the attacker. Then when they win, because they will because they only picked a fight they knew they would win, they can take the caravan to the nearest town with less travel time and less time sink and no gold sink, and make a greater profit than the caravan owner would make. Provided the defense was splitting evenly. (And if you aren't splitting evenly, how do you expect to win any defenders to your side? When they could just attack you for an even split of the share?) So say you take the lowered profit as the caravan launcher, you get a full defender group together somehow. You will not encounter an attack the entire trip, because attackers don't attack defended caravans. So I've just paid a bunch of people to be bored with me and RP walk for 3+ hours. A boring trip, a walking simulator, with lowered profits for everyone. It feels like a huge time waste for all involved. I'd would like the caravan event; if it were a team vs. team PvP event. But it's not that. It greatly falls short of that goal. Burden to get a defender group is too high for the launcher. It comes down to will you risk a loss for full profit and the possibility of an interesting trip, or make chump change for a long, boring trip with no events? I do like the aesthetic of watching other people pull them along the roads, though. However the caravan defenders need more. Anything to make defending a caravan seem like a decent option would be nice. Commissions so other people would just join of their own volition or you get a 'badge' or something you can turn in at the destination saying you defended an incoming caravan, that the city will reimburse you for with some silver or gold. Maybe you get more reimbursement the longer you were with the caravan. Something that would help the caravan-launcher keep some of their profit and make putting a team together seem reasonable in the first place Or the attackers need more risk. Something the defender can profit off of them from. Maybe defeated attackers get pulled along with the caravan, and I turn them in as criminals for bounty-profit at my destination xD It's just not working as a PvP event right now.
keenow wrote: » I dunno. All I've done is solo caravans and I haven't lost one yet. I even hopped out of my caravan at one point, left mine on the roadside, to defend another caravan that was being attacked; still didn't lose mine somehow. I really don't enjoy the caravans because of speed, time, and forced necessity. I'd enjoy them less if I were losing loot. When mules are released, I'll probably abandon the caravan system altogether. ... It's just not working as a PvP event right now.
CROW3 wrote: » keenow wrote: » I dunno. All I've done is solo caravans and I haven't lost one yet. I even hopped out of my caravan at one point, left mine on the roadside, to defend another caravan that was being attacked; still didn't lose mine somehow. I really don't enjoy the caravans because of speed, time, and forced necessity. I'd enjoy them less if I were losing loot. When mules are released, I'll probably abandon the caravan system altogether. ... It's just not working as a PvP event right now. Fair points. I don't think caravans are either fun or effective (for me). That said, my sense of caravans is that once corruption has been calibrated better (i.e. not perfect), ow pvp will be MUCH more common, and moving mats as individual players will become more dangerous - in terms of risk of loss. This will naturally push players toward caravans to 1) consolidate security and 2) carry more materials faster with less risk. Both of these outcomes are closer to the end state vision of caravans than what we're currently playing in A2.
Otr wrote: » I wait to see the mayoral caravans and weekly castle caravans. And vassal networks binding nodes together to prevent sieges. Players are supposed to go and attack caravans from other nations, to weaken them. All that is missing. Also Steven has to make people really care for their nodes, more than for the guilds living in them.
Volgaris wrote: » Otr wrote: » I wait to see the mayoral caravans and weekly castle caravans. And vassal networks binding nodes together to prevent sieges. Players are supposed to go and attack caravans from other nations, to weaken them. All that is missing. Also Steven has to make people really care for their nodes, more than for the guilds living in them. What's a nation supposed to look like? I think this is critical to the core of Nodes and Caravans. How could they not put this in yet? Depending on how it was done a Nation would really tie these systems together. Right now it's just all...? pointless I guess. If we could get some good RvR or NvN fights I'd be all in. Damn I hope they do something about this... As the systems are now I don't care about Nodes. They're just tedious crafting benches. But if the core missing element was added (Nations maybe) then Nodes would have more purpose? It's hard to say without knowing what his plan is. What is really annoying is IF there are core systems still out of the game why are we play testing it? What is the actual value they get from it? What's the point of the grind? To balance the mobs, the amount of materials? Does any of that even matter yet, won't it change as more areas are built. Won't the dynamics of player interactions change as the world grows and as new systems and introduced?
CROW3 wrote: » No. Caravans are roving pvp events, that’s the entire point. If you don’t like it, then take your chances moving your own mats. OP is trying to frame this for casuals, it’s not. It’s trying to create a PvE only version of Ashes. WoW is that way ——>
eyawn wrote: » it isn't pvp if its level 25 vs level 10. that shows the level 25 isn't good enough to hit their level caravans. if they cant hit at their level, than their level should be reduced. pvp still exists, just becomes equalized. makes the attackers risk worth debating over it for the level 25... right now, it's 100% attack low levels which isn't skillful or risky... so the transaction should not happen.
eyawn wrote: » what's the risk of a max level ganking a low level? xp debt? that doesn't matter? that interaction shouldn't happen.
Gyn wrote: » We NEED semi-safe caravans for casuals. Without this, casual players will be left out of a major part of the game. Please consider removing the attack/defend from caravans and just make it follow zone rules. If people want to steal a caravan in normal zones, they need to go red. Lawless zones are still open PvP. To balance, lower safe zone trade rewards but increase lawless zone caravan rewards. I am 100% for risk/reward. But right now, the only low risk option is straight selling your glint to a vendor. It just feels like doodoo to go grind monsters, to just sell your gains to a vendor like grey trash in WoW. Especially when you know the gameplay loop is to caravan that glint to another node. Give casual players the time sink that is moving a caravan. Let them have a small endorphin hit when they make it to the end safely. It doesn't take away from the hardcore players sweating it out running caravans to lawless zones at all. I really do not see any negative to this change, as long as the reward differences are significant.
eyawn wrote: » it isn't pvp if its level 25 vs level 10. that shows the level 25 isn't good enough to hit their level caravans.
