Volgaris wrote: » Kallysha wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Kallysha wrote: » MDS wrote: » Is it a bummer I cant TP home before I log off at the end of the night? yes is it a bummer it takes a while to run to a dungeon? yes Are there more negatives of not having fast travel? yes Do I want fast travel? NO All modern MMOs have fast travel and it guts the whole experience of adventuring in a world. We all need to stop asking for instant gratification. Teleport me here so can do a thing so I can quickly get home to do another thing quickly..... Traveling is content and while not always exciting, has the potential to be so fun. Lets try something different. Keep fast travel to an extreme min in Ashes, please. So im going to put this scenario happens your node and guild are set on the riverlands right but you are on the other half of the map all the way up there in the north of it, suddenly you get a call that your node is getting attacked! When you finally manage to arrive there, war is over and the node its gone lost! « this will 100% happen btw Yes that can happen and it will happen probably a few times. Your travel should be planned, and a consequence to traveling far is not being around your node to defend it. The point of a system like this is so you CAN NOT be anywhere anytime you want. All pvp games have some form of tactical planning, some have strategic planning, very few have logistical planning. Ashes seems to aim to have some forms of logistical mechanics such as caravans and nodes and the events around them. If fast travel is implement to too high a degree you'll break a lot of what they're trying to make. what i would like at least, when in the case you being far away from your node and not aware it will get attacked, to implement something like an emergency waypoint ( like existed in gw2). You had to install it (which takes 3 minutes to spawn) and would create a temporarily emergency waypoint at the objective, once activated, it would be an uncontestable waypoint, which lasts for 40 seconds and can be reused indefinitely until it expires with a 20 minute cooldown. Even thought trolls and spies did exist and they did like to abuse and waste the ewp (it could be set to instead anyone can activate to only the person that installed and its guild members can activate it). Also someone mentioned a situation involving a dungeon, well in throne and liberty there are few waypoints when a dungeon has multiple layers, you cant use them out of it only when inside and you need to interact with a respective one to select which floor you want to get to so then you can get to another (tl dungeons wps). I think that'd break a lot of stuff. I'd use that way point to get across the map fast to gather and run back. I'd use it to attack a Node with my guild too that's across the map. Fast travel in this fashion would make this game suck. It'd be a never ending stream of massive attack after massive attack from enemies across the map. Distance would no longer be a safety variable. For guilds that want to focus on attacking and never build up Nodes this would be a great boon. I could find myself in a guild that would "abuse" this feature and I'm still against it. Attacking a Node far away should be a challenge more so than one in the same Zone. It's hard to say what the game needs because so much is missing or a placeholder, and it's a mistake to compare it to other games, or say that Ashes needs something from GW, TL, WoW, or whatever. Because we don't know what it needs yet really. Fast travel has a purpose in some games, but in general it waters down the experience. It'll turn a massive open world game like Ashes into a Lobby/Loading screen game. Some people want that lobby based system to quickly get to the action, and that's a fair point, but others don't want it. And when you have so much of the game's competitive systems based around travel, if you implement fast travel that solves your problem then why even have the travel problem for the player to solve?
Kallysha wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Kallysha wrote: » MDS wrote: » Is it a bummer I cant TP home before I log off at the end of the night? yes is it a bummer it takes a while to run to a dungeon? yes Are there more negatives of not having fast travel? yes Do I want fast travel? NO All modern MMOs have fast travel and it guts the whole experience of adventuring in a world. We all need to stop asking for instant gratification. Teleport me here so can do a thing so I can quickly get home to do another thing quickly..... Traveling is content and while not always exciting, has the potential to be so fun. Lets try something different. Keep fast travel to an extreme min in Ashes, please. So im going to put this scenario happens your node and guild are set on the riverlands right but you are on the other half of the map all the way up there in the north of it, suddenly you get a call that your node is getting attacked! When you finally manage to arrive there, war is over and the node its gone lost! « this will 100% happen btw Yes that can happen and it will happen probably a few times. Your travel should be planned, and a consequence to traveling far is not being around your node to defend it. The point of a system like this is so you CAN NOT be anywhere anytime you want. All pvp games have some form of tactical planning, some have strategic planning, very few have logistical planning. Ashes seems to aim to have some forms of logistical mechanics such as caravans and nodes and the events around them. If fast travel is implement to too high a degree you'll break a lot of what they're trying to make. what i would like at least, when in the case you being far away from your node and not aware it will get attacked, to implement something like an emergency waypoint ( like existed in gw2). You had to install it (which takes 3 minutes to spawn) and would create a temporarily emergency waypoint at the objective, once activated, it would be an uncontestable waypoint, which lasts for 40 seconds and can be reused indefinitely until it expires with a 20 minute cooldown. Even thought trolls and spies did exist and they did like to abuse and waste the ewp (it could be set to instead anyone can activate to only the person that installed and its guild members can activate it). Also someone mentioned a situation involving a dungeon, well in throne and liberty there are few waypoints when a dungeon has multiple layers, you cant use them out of it only when inside and you need to interact with a respective one to select which floor you want to get to so then you can get to another (tl dungeons wps).
Volgaris wrote: » Kallysha wrote: » MDS wrote: » Is it a bummer I cant TP home before I log off at the end of the night? yes is it a bummer it takes a while to run to a dungeon? yes Are there more negatives of not having fast travel? yes Do I want fast travel? NO All modern MMOs have fast travel and it guts the whole experience of adventuring in a world. We all need to stop asking for instant gratification. Teleport me here so can do a thing so I can quickly get home to do another thing quickly..... Traveling is content and while not always exciting, has the potential to be so fun. Lets try something different. Keep fast travel to an extreme min in Ashes, please. So im going to put this scenario happens your node and guild are set on the riverlands right but you are on the other half of the map all the way up there in the north of it, suddenly you get a call that your node is getting attacked! When you finally manage to arrive there, war is over and the node its gone lost! « this will 100% happen btw Yes that can happen and it will happen probably a few times. Your travel should be planned, and a consequence to traveling far is not being around your node to defend it. The point of a system like this is so you CAN NOT be anywhere anytime you want. All pvp games have some form of tactical planning, some have strategic planning, very few have logistical planning. Ashes seems to aim to have some forms of logistical mechanics such as caravans and nodes and the events around them. If fast travel is implement to too high a degree you'll break a lot of what they're trying to make.
Kallysha wrote: » MDS wrote: » Is it a bummer I cant TP home before I log off at the end of the night? yes is it a bummer it takes a while to run to a dungeon? yes Are there more negatives of not having fast travel? yes Do I want fast travel? NO All modern MMOs have fast travel and it guts the whole experience of adventuring in a world. We all need to stop asking for instant gratification. Teleport me here so can do a thing so I can quickly get home to do another thing quickly..... Traveling is content and while not always exciting, has the potential to be so fun. Lets try something different. Keep fast travel to an extreme min in Ashes, please. So im going to put this scenario happens your node and guild are set on the riverlands right but you are on the other half of the map all the way up there in the north of it, suddenly you get a call that your node is getting attacked! When you finally manage to arrive there, war is over and the node its gone lost! « this will 100% happen btw
MDS wrote: » Is it a bummer I cant TP home before I log off at the end of the night? yes is it a bummer it takes a while to run to a dungeon? yes Are there more negatives of not having fast travel? yes Do I want fast travel? NO All modern MMOs have fast travel and it guts the whole experience of adventuring in a world. We all need to stop asking for instant gratification. Teleport me here so can do a thing so I can quickly get home to do another thing quickly..... Traveling is content and while not always exciting, has the potential to be so fun. Lets try something different. Keep fast travel to an extreme min in Ashes, please.
Ludullu wrote: » at which point you're roughly 10-15 minutes away from any point on the map,
Tjaeden wrote: » WHY do we want Fast Travel? What specific feature do players THINK they need?
Tjaeden wrote: » Flight paths? You never need to leave your node.
Tjaeden wrote: » Hearthstone? What CD/cost or limitations is acceptable?
Tjaeden wrote: » Like, what *exactly* do pro-fast-travel players want to skip?
Tjaeden wrote: » Skip PVP? Why?
Kallysha wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Kallysha wrote: » Volgaris wrote: » Kallysha wrote: » MDS wrote: » Is it a bummer I cant TP home before I log off at the end of the night? yes is it a bummer it takes a while to run to a dungeon? yes Are there more negatives of not having fast travel? yes Do I want fast travel? NO All modern MMOs have fast travel and it guts the whole experience of adventuring in a world. We all need to stop asking for instant gratification. Teleport me here so can do a thing so I can quickly get home to do another thing quickly..... Traveling is content and while not always exciting, has the potential to be so fun. Lets try something different. Keep fast travel to an extreme min in Ashes, please. So im going to put this scenario happens your node and guild are set on the riverlands right but you are on the other half of the map all the way up there in the north of it, suddenly you get a call that your node is getting attacked! When you finally manage to arrive there, war is over and the node its gone lost! « this will 100% happen btw Yes that can happen and it will happen probably a few times. Your travel should be planned, and a consequence to traveling far is not being around your node to defend it. The point of a system like this is so you CAN NOT be anywhere anytime you want. All pvp games have some form of tactical planning, some have strategic planning, very few have logistical planning. Ashes seems to aim to have some forms of logistical mechanics such as caravans and nodes and the events around them. If fast travel is implement to too high a degree you'll break a lot of what they're trying to make. what i would like at least, when in the case you being far away from your node and not aware it will get attacked, to implement something like an emergency waypoint ( like existed in gw2). You had to install it (which takes 3 minutes to spawn) and would create a temporarily emergency waypoint at the objective, once activated, it would be an uncontestable waypoint, which lasts for 40 seconds and can be reused indefinitely until it expires with a 20 minute cooldown. Even thought trolls and spies did exist and they did like to abuse and waste the ewp (it could be set to instead anyone can activate to only the person that installed and its guild members can activate it). Also someone mentioned a situation involving a dungeon, well in throne and liberty there are few waypoints when a dungeon has multiple layers, you cant use them out of it only when inside and you need to interact with a respective one to select which floor you want to get to so then you can get to another (tl dungeons wps). I think that'd break a lot of stuff. I'd use that way point to get across the map fast to gather and run back. I'd use it to attack a Node with my guild too that's across the map. Fast travel in this fashion would make this game suck. It'd be a never ending stream of massive attack after massive attack from enemies across the map. Distance would no longer be a safety variable. For guilds that want to focus on attacking and never build up Nodes this would be a great boon. I could find myself in a guild that would "abuse" this feature and I'm still against it. Attacking a Node far away should be a challenge more so than one in the same Zone. It's hard to say what the game needs because so much is missing or a placeholder, and it's a mistake to compare it to other games, or say that Ashes needs something from GW, TL, WoW, or whatever. Because we don't know what it needs yet really. Fast travel has a purpose in some games, but in general it waters down the experience. It'll turn a massive open world game like Ashes into a Lobby/Loading screen game. Some people want that lobby based system to quickly get to the action, and that's a fair point, but others don't want it. And when you have so much of the game's competitive systems based around travel, if you implement fast travel that solves your problem then why even have the travel problem for the player to solve? The emergency waypoint could only be utilized by citizens/defenders from that node not like anyone out there can utilize it, that do be absurd, far less people who decide attack it. Well i can tell you didnt play gw2 wvw so you not familiar how it worked, very simple the name says it all tho, used when an emergency thats it, definitely couldnt be utilized by who ever was attacking/enemy only by the people of that server in this case citizens/defenders from that node; its pretty much a defensive waypoint that can be submitted when in case there is very few people around to defend the node, needs to be activated and only lasts a short x time (in the case 40 seconds, although for the node concept maybe a minute wouldnt be a bad idea) wvw maps and population were far smaller in comparison with aoc scope) and then also has a long cooldown to reactivate it, can only be activated in the period of when a siege happening or a war over the node. *looks like you got everything backwards of what i said tho*
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I wonder if players will take on the challenge of working as ferrymen for some coins People who have war targets on the way to their destination may simply pay someone to take them to their destination by traveling around the continent safely by boat
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I wonder if players will take on the challenge of working as ferrymen for some coins
Orrion wrote: » I know it's been said that the game will not have point-to=point fast travel. However, I feel like this is a mistake. The points of not having fast travel are o encourage world exploration and open world PvP. Given that there are PvP areas, large scale wars, and a node spawn system that is dynamic, these reasons are already covered. We will have plenty of reason to go exploring the world. There's simply no point in making us take 20 minutes or more just to cross the map. This is further exacerbated by all the different leveling areas being very spread out and not having any kind of combined storage. If you add in the fact that the map is nowhere near completed, and you'll have players spending the bulk of their time just to get from point A to point B. Case in point was making a group for Oakenhold tonight. We invited a cleric who was in the upper left of the map - it literally took him 25 minutes just to get over to us. That's a lot of wasting 7 other peoples' time. At the very least, we need what EverQuest had - classes with the ability to create portals and gates to other locations. Druids and Wizards both had the ability to travel around, and at later levels they could do so for groups. Many of your players are going to be people with limited time. We're going to want to spend the time we have doing what we want to do, not auto running and staring at your mount's backside. So, please, consider throwing us a bone or two here.
Orrion wrote: » Apok wrote: » umm I would argue the complete opposite is true, this is why something like ESO forces you to travel the zones by collecting those POIs is part of leveling your character. Not to mention the easier you make it to move around the map the worse off your economy is, games like NW and FFXIV have this problem where all your mats are either dirt cheap or super expensive cause everyone's just able to jump on the ones everyone wants or farm the hell out of basic stuff. Collecting POIs serves zero purpose if you have no way to return to them except hopping on your horse. It’s not like the area doesn’t show up on your map. There’s no fog of war or anything similar. I can see Oakenbane Keep on my level 6 mage despite never going down into that area. Going there for the Emberspring serves little purpose as well, since you automatically have the nearest Emberspring as a respawn point if you die. Further, again, dynamic spawns prevent the economy from worsening. There aren’t going to be set spawn points. I would argue that without fast travel people are more likely to farm the hell out of basic stuff. What am I gonna do with my time - ride 30 minutes and farm a small inventory’s worth of mats and ride back or ride around Winstead and farm ash and oak, basalt and granite? Most people are gonna farm ash and oak, basalt and granite. Sidebar while I’m at it - we have nowhere near the amount of inventory and storage space we need when every type of material has 5 different rarities. Talents wrote: » Fast travel is shit in an MMO like Ashes for more reasons than just not allowing you to explore the world. One such reason is Ashes has a heavy emphasis on open-world PvP, which naturally means there will be "zerg" guilds. However, no fast travel fucks over zerg guilds. Lets say your guild plans a caravan run or an attack in a certain part of the map, and the zerg guild is spread around the map doing their own thing. With fast travel, they just fast travel to the nearest point to you in 2 minutes and fuck you over with no counterplay. Without fast travel, now they have to travel literal hours to all converge from around the map, by which point you've likely done whatever it is you planned to do. Ashes map is currently around 8% of the intended final size, and it already takes a fair few minutes to travel across the singular biome. Add in the Ocean and the other dozen+ zones, and you have huge map with no fast travel that fucks over those zergs. So.. you’re telling me it’s better for people to be unable to participate in content? That’s not a winning formula for any game I’ve ever heard of. There are much easier ways to prevent zergs, such as limiting the number of participants for given events. This is 2025, not 1999. Plus, even if you take EQ’s mentioned method of a few classes having teleport capabilities, it’d still take a fair amount of time to coordinate getting everyone to the point of conflict. That only 8% of the map is currently complete and we’re already taking this long to travel does not bode well. Players want to be able to spend their time doing what’s fun to them. Running around on your horse for hours on end is not going to fly. That’s simple fact. This is, again, especially true when leveling areas are very spread out. We don’t have all the 5-10 leveling areas in the same spots on the map. Plus, Ashes is going to run on group content. Playing solo for most classes is difficult, and you’re not going to be able to kill starred enemies anywhere your level. It is therefore in the best interest of the game to facilitate ways for people to group up, get to the same location, and get to killing. I love the non-instanced aspect of this game, and the 8 person groups, and the support classes. It reminds me very much of EQ’s early days. But Ashes is going to need to modernize at least some aspects of the game if they expect to retain players, and when you have MMOs coming up on 30 years old doing something essential better than you do, you’ve got to address that.
Apok wrote: » umm I would argue the complete opposite is true, this is why something like ESO forces you to travel the zones by collecting those POIs is part of leveling your character. Not to mention the easier you make it to move around the map the worse off your economy is, games like NW and FFXIV have this problem where all your mats are either dirt cheap or super expensive cause everyone's just able to jump on the ones everyone wants or farm the hell out of basic stuff.
Talents wrote: » Fast travel is shit in an MMO like Ashes for more reasons than just not allowing you to explore the world. One such reason is Ashes has a heavy emphasis on open-world PvP, which naturally means there will be "zerg" guilds. However, no fast travel fucks over zerg guilds. Lets say your guild plans a caravan run or an attack in a certain part of the map, and the zerg guild is spread around the map doing their own thing. With fast travel, they just fast travel to the nearest point to you in 2 minutes and fuck you over with no counterplay. Without fast travel, now they have to travel literal hours to all converge from around the map, by which point you've likely done whatever it is you planned to do. Ashes map is currently around 8% of the intended final size, and it already takes a fair few minutes to travel across the singular biome. Add in the Ocean and the other dozen+ zones, and you have huge map with no fast travel that fucks over those zergs.
Tahiti02 wrote: » Orrion wrote: » I know it's been said that the game will not have point-to=point fast travel. However, I feel like this is a mistake. The points of not having fast travel are o encourage world exploration and open world PvP. Given that there are PvP areas, large scale wars, and a node spawn system that is dynamic, these reasons are already covered. We will have plenty of reason to go exploring the world. There's simply no point in making us take 20 minutes or more just to cross the map. This is further exacerbated by all the different leveling areas being very spread out and not having any kind of combined storage. If you add in the fact that the map is nowhere near completed, and you'll have players spending the bulk of their time just to get from point A to point B. Case in point was making a group for Oakenhold tonight. We invited a cleric who was in the upper left of the map - it literally took him 25 minutes just to get over to us. That's a lot of wasting 7 other peoples' time. At the very least, we need what EverQuest had - classes with the ability to create portals and gates to other locations. Druids and Wizards both had the ability to travel around, and at later levels they could do so for groups. Many of your players are going to be people with limited time. We're going to want to spend the time we have doing what we want to do, not auto running and staring at your mount's backside. So, please, consider throwing us a bone or two here. Disagree completely. You seem to want to do everything, all the time, quickly. What about the entire idea of an adventure? Needing to travel to a far away land and explore. You will have plenty of things to do but dont expect instant gratifications, we have plenty of those games, we dont need another. The idea of AoC is that you wont be travelling from the top of the map to bottom every day. That will be a journey days if not weeks in the making. And its good, we will get living breathing world with literally empires on opposite sides of the map. NO FAST TRAVEL.
Tahiti02 wrote: » Orrion wrote: » Apok wrote: » umm I would argue the complete opposite is true, this is why something like ESO forces you to travel the zones by collecting those POIs is part of leveling your character. Not to mention the easier you make it to move around the map the worse off your economy is, games like NW and FFXIV have this problem where all your mats are either dirt cheap or super expensive cause everyone's just able to jump on the ones everyone wants or farm the hell out of basic stuff. Collecting POIs serves zero purpose if you have no way to return to them except hopping on your horse. It’s not like the area doesn’t show up on your map. There’s no fog of war or anything similar. I can see Oakenbane Keep on my level 6 mage despite never going down into that area. Going there for the Emberspring serves little purpose as well, since you automatically have the nearest Emberspring as a respawn point if you die. Further, again, dynamic spawns prevent the economy from worsening. There aren’t going to be set spawn points. I would argue that without fast travel people are more likely to farm the hell out of basic stuff. What am I gonna do with my time - ride 30 minutes and farm a small inventory’s worth of mats and ride back or ride around Winstead and farm ash and oak, basalt and granite? Most people are gonna farm ash and oak, basalt and granite. Sidebar while I’m at it - we have nowhere near the amount of inventory and storage space we need when every type of material has 5 different rarities. Talents wrote: » Fast travel is shit in an MMO like Ashes for more reasons than just not allowing you to explore the world. One such reason is Ashes has a heavy emphasis on open-world PvP, which naturally means there will be "zerg" guilds. However, no fast travel fucks over zerg guilds. Lets say your guild plans a caravan run or an attack in a certain part of the map, and the zerg guild is spread around the map doing their own thing. With fast travel, they just fast travel to the nearest point to you in 2 minutes and fuck you over with no counterplay. Without fast travel, now they have to travel literal hours to all converge from around the map, by which point you've likely done whatever it is you planned to do. Ashes map is currently around 8% of the intended final size, and it already takes a fair few minutes to travel across the singular biome. Add in the Ocean and the other dozen+ zones, and you have huge map with no fast travel that fucks over those zergs. So.. you’re telling me it’s better for people to be unable to participate in content? That’s not a winning formula for any game I’ve ever heard of. There are much easier ways to prevent zergs, such as limiting the number of participants for given events. This is 2025, not 1999. Plus, even if you take EQ’s mentioned method of a few classes having teleport capabilities, it’d still take a fair amount of time to coordinate getting everyone to the point of conflict. That only 8% of the map is currently complete and we’re already taking this long to travel does not bode well. Players want to be able to spend their time doing what’s fun to them. Running around on your horse for hours on end is not going to fly. That’s simple fact. This is, again, especially true when leveling areas are very spread out. We don’t have all the 5-10 leveling areas in the same spots on the map. Plus, Ashes is going to run on group content. Playing solo for most classes is difficult, and you’re not going to be able to kill starred enemies anywhere your level. It is therefore in the best interest of the game to facilitate ways for people to group up, get to the same location, and get to killing. I love the non-instanced aspect of this game, and the 8 person groups, and the support classes. It reminds me very much of EQ’s early days. But Ashes is going to need to modernize at least some aspects of the game if they expect to retain players, and when you have MMOs coming up on 30 years old doing something essential better than you do, you’ve got to address that. This is 2025 and not 1990. Great point! Notice how the MMORPG genre is on its deathbed for the last 20 years. Do you not see the correlation? Stupid point.
Noaani wrote: » Tahiti02 wrote: » Orrion wrote: » I know it's been said that the game will not have point-to=point fast travel. However, I feel like this is a mistake. The points of not having fast travel are o encourage world exploration and open world PvP. Given that there are PvP areas, large scale wars, and a node spawn system that is dynamic, these reasons are already covered. We will have plenty of reason to go exploring the world. There's simply no point in making us take 20 minutes or more just to cross the map. This is further exacerbated by all the different leveling areas being very spread out and not having any kind of combined storage. If you add in the fact that the map is nowhere near completed, and you'll have players spending the bulk of their time just to get from point A to point B. Case in point was making a group for Oakenhold tonight. We invited a cleric who was in the upper left of the map - it literally took him 25 minutes just to get over to us. That's a lot of wasting 7 other peoples' time. At the very least, we need what EverQuest had - classes with the ability to create portals and gates to other locations. Druids and Wizards both had the ability to travel around, and at later levels they could do so for groups. Many of your players are going to be people with limited time. We're going to want to spend the time we have doing what we want to do, not auto running and staring at your mount's backside. So, please, consider throwing us a bone or two here. Disagree completely. You seem to want to do everything, all the time, quickly. What about the entire idea of an adventure? Needing to travel to a far away land and explore. You will have plenty of things to do but dont expect instant gratifications, we have plenty of those games, we dont need another. The idea of AoC is that you wont be travelling from the top of the map to bottom every day. That will be a journey days if not weeks in the making. And its good, we will get living breathing world with literally empires on opposite sides of the map. NO FAST TRAVEL. Fast travel doesn't exclude the notion of exploration. In fact, in most games, it requires exploration. If you can't fast travel unless you have been to the location, exploration is mandatory. In this situation, all fast travel is doing is removing the monotony of needing to travel along the same road all the time. Tahiti02 wrote: » Orrion wrote: » Apok wrote: » umm I would argue the complete opposite is true, this is why something like ESO forces you to travel the zones by collecting those POIs is part of leveling your character. Not to mention the easier you make it to move around the map the worse off your economy is, games like NW and FFXIV have this problem where all your mats are either dirt cheap or super expensive cause everyone's just able to jump on the ones everyone wants or farm the hell out of basic stuff. Collecting POIs serves zero purpose if you have no way to return to them except hopping on your horse. It’s not like the area doesn’t show up on your map. There’s no fog of war or anything similar. I can see Oakenbane Keep on my level 6 mage despite never going down into that area. Going there for the Emberspring serves little purpose as well, since you automatically have the nearest Emberspring as a respawn point if you die. Further, again, dynamic spawns prevent the economy from worsening. There aren’t going to be set spawn points. I would argue that without fast travel people are more likely to farm the hell out of basic stuff. What am I gonna do with my time - ride 30 minutes and farm a small inventory’s worth of mats and ride back or ride around Winstead and farm ash and oak, basalt and granite? Most people are gonna farm ash and oak, basalt and granite. Sidebar while I’m at it - we have nowhere near the amount of inventory and storage space we need when every type of material has 5 different rarities. Talents wrote: » Fast travel is shit in an MMO like Ashes for more reasons than just not allowing you to explore the world. One such reason is Ashes has a heavy emphasis on open-world PvP, which naturally means there will be "zerg" guilds. However, no fast travel fucks over zerg guilds. Lets say your guild plans a caravan run or an attack in a certain part of the map, and the zerg guild is spread around the map doing their own thing. With fast travel, they just fast travel to the nearest point to you in 2 minutes and fuck you over with no counterplay. Without fast travel, now they have to travel literal hours to all converge from around the map, by which point you've likely done whatever it is you planned to do. Ashes map is currently around 8% of the intended final size, and it already takes a fair few minutes to travel across the singular biome. Add in the Ocean and the other dozen+ zones, and you have huge map with no fast travel that fucks over those zergs. So.. you’re telling me it’s better for people to be unable to participate in content? That’s not a winning formula for any game I’ve ever heard of. There are much easier ways to prevent zergs, such as limiting the number of participants for given events. This is 2025, not 1999. Plus, even if you take EQ’s mentioned method of a few classes having teleport capabilities, it’d still take a fair amount of time to coordinate getting everyone to the point of conflict. That only 8% of the map is currently complete and we’re already taking this long to travel does not bode well. Players want to be able to spend their time doing what’s fun to them. Running around on your horse for hours on end is not going to fly. That’s simple fact. This is, again, especially true when leveling areas are very spread out. We don’t have all the 5-10 leveling areas in the same spots on the map. Plus, Ashes is going to run on group content. Playing solo for most classes is difficult, and you’re not going to be able to kill starred enemies anywhere your level. It is therefore in the best interest of the game to facilitate ways for people to group up, get to the same location, and get to killing. I love the non-instanced aspect of this game, and the 8 person groups, and the support classes. It reminds me very much of EQ’s early days. But Ashes is going to need to modernize at least some aspects of the game if they expect to retain players, and when you have MMOs coming up on 30 years old doing something essential better than you do, you’ve got to address that. This is 2025 and not 1990. Great point! Notice how the MMORPG genre is on its deathbed for the last 20 years. Do you not see the correlation? Stupid point. The MMO genre is not on its death bed. The PvP focused MMORPG sub genre kind of is though.
stonethrower wrote: » only competition and pvp save
stonethrower wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Tahiti02 wrote: » Orrion wrote: » I know it's been said that the game will not have point-to=point fast travel. However, I feel like this is a mistake. The points of not having fast travel are o encourage world exploration and open world PvP. Given that there are PvP areas, large scale wars, and a node spawn system that is dynamic, these reasons are already covered. We will have plenty of reason to go exploring the world. There's simply no point in making us take 20 minutes or more just to cross the map. This is further exacerbated by all the different leveling areas being very spread out and not having any kind of combined storage. If you add in the fact that the map is nowhere near completed, and you'll have players spending the bulk of their time just to get from point A to point B. Case in point was making a group for Oakenhold tonight. We invited a cleric who was in the upper left of the map - it literally took him 25 minutes just to get over to us. That's a lot of wasting 7 other peoples' time. At the very least, we need what EverQuest had - classes with the ability to create portals and gates to other locations. Druids and Wizards both had the ability to travel around, and at later levels they could do so for groups. Many of your players are going to be people with limited time. We're going to want to spend the time we have doing what we want to do, not auto running and staring at your mount's backside. So, please, consider throwing us a bone or two here. Disagree completely. You seem to want to do everything, all the time, quickly. What about the entire idea of an adventure? Needing to travel to a far away land and explore. You will have plenty of things to do but dont expect instant gratifications, we have plenty of those games, we dont need another. The idea of AoC is that you wont be travelling from the top of the map to bottom every day. That will be a journey days if not weeks in the making. And its good, we will get living breathing world with literally empires on opposite sides of the map. NO FAST TRAVEL. Fast travel doesn't exclude the notion of exploration. In fact, in most games, it requires exploration. If you can't fast travel unless you have been to the location, exploration is mandatory. In this situation, all fast travel is doing is removing the monotony of needing to travel along the same road all the time. Tahiti02 wrote: » Orrion wrote: » Apok wrote: » umm I would argue the complete opposite is true, this is why something like ESO forces you to travel the zones by collecting those POIs is part of leveling your character. Not to mention the easier you make it to move around the map the worse off your economy is, games like NW and FFXIV have this problem where all your mats are either dirt cheap or super expensive cause everyone's just able to jump on the ones everyone wants or farm the hell out of basic stuff. Collecting POIs serves zero purpose if you have no way to return to them except hopping on your horse. It’s not like the area doesn’t show up on your map. There’s no fog of war or anything similar. I can see Oakenbane Keep on my level 6 mage despite never going down into that area. Going there for the Emberspring serves little purpose as well, since you automatically have the nearest Emberspring as a respawn point if you die. Further, again, dynamic spawns prevent the economy from worsening. There aren’t going to be set spawn points. I would argue that without fast travel people are more likely to farm the hell out of basic stuff. What am I gonna do with my time - ride 30 minutes and farm a small inventory’s worth of mats and ride back or ride around Winstead and farm ash and oak, basalt and granite? Most people are gonna farm ash and oak, basalt and granite. Sidebar while I’m at it - we have nowhere near the amount of inventory and storage space we need when every type of material has 5 different rarities. Talents wrote: » Fast travel is shit in an MMO like Ashes for more reasons than just not allowing you to explore the world. One such reason is Ashes has a heavy emphasis on open-world PvP, which naturally means there will be "zerg" guilds. However, no fast travel fucks over zerg guilds. Lets say your guild plans a caravan run or an attack in a certain part of the map, and the zerg guild is spread around the map doing their own thing. With fast travel, they just fast travel to the nearest point to you in 2 minutes and fuck you over with no counterplay. Without fast travel, now they have to travel literal hours to all converge from around the map, by which point you've likely done whatever it is you planned to do. Ashes map is currently around 8% of the intended final size, and it already takes a fair few minutes to travel across the singular biome. Add in the Ocean and the other dozen+ zones, and you have huge map with no fast travel that fucks over those zergs. So.. you’re telling me it’s better for people to be unable to participate in content? That’s not a winning formula for any game I’ve ever heard of. There are much easier ways to prevent zergs, such as limiting the number of participants for given events. This is 2025, not 1999. Plus, even if you take EQ’s mentioned method of a few classes having teleport capabilities, it’d still take a fair amount of time to coordinate getting everyone to the point of conflict. That only 8% of the map is currently complete and we’re already taking this long to travel does not bode well. Players want to be able to spend their time doing what’s fun to them. Running around on your horse for hours on end is not going to fly. That’s simple fact. This is, again, especially true when leveling areas are very spread out. We don’t have all the 5-10 leveling areas in the same spots on the map. Plus, Ashes is going to run on group content. Playing solo for most classes is difficult, and you’re not going to be able to kill starred enemies anywhere your level. It is therefore in the best interest of the game to facilitate ways for people to group up, get to the same location, and get to killing. I love the non-instanced aspect of this game, and the 8 person groups, and the support classes. It reminds me very much of EQ’s early days. But Ashes is going to need to modernize at least some aspects of the game if they expect to retain players, and when you have MMOs coming up on 30 years old doing something essential better than you do, you’ve got to address that. This is 2025 and not 1990. Great point! Notice how the MMORPG genre is on its deathbed for the last 20 years. Do you not see the correlation? Stupid point. The MMO genre is not on its death bed. The PvP focused MMORPG sub genre kind of is though. The MMO genre is on its death bed since social networks appeared. People used to play to communicate and interact. is no longer relevant now. only competition and pvp save
