📝 Dev Discussion #77 - Let’s Talk Quests! ❗

Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly Q&A thread, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!

In this thread, we’ll be discussing:

Dev Discussion - Let's Talk Quests!

The team would like to gather comprehensive sentiment on quests as they currently exist. Nothing is in the final state, as we’re always looking to refine and make improvements to systems during Alpha Two. While fine-tuning will be a main focus of later testing phases, we still want to hear your thoughts on what can be improved regarding quests!

We’d love your thoughts on:

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)
How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?
In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?
Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
- Less than 25%
- 25–49%
- 50–74%
- 75% or more
- Why did you choose that percentage?
What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

Don’t feel limited to the thought-starters above. Feel free to drop whatever feedback you have regarding your experiences with quests below 👇

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ZiZi-Jaz-Mina

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)

Honestly, a 1. I haven't played any mmos with quest systems worse.

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?

The rewards are for the most part really bad. I think providing more recipes or even crafting materials would help in this department. I know the game's gear is supposed to be primarily crafted, and that's fine, but then to me that means the questing system needs to better support that. like sweat of your brow is a good quest, and it rewards you with a random recipe.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?

Though I would ideally like there to be a choice as rewards so players can get recipes they could potentially use. I haven't addressed this yet but having chain quests that give you say a full set of armor's recipes would be amazing especially in early game. Similar to how that gear token quest for starter players gives you tokens, it would be ideal such quests existed for gear set recipes and weapon recipes.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?

I think there should be at least two different categories of quests:

High reward (valuable recipes or crafting mats) and
High EXP where the amount of time put into the quest makes the exp well worth it.

That being said, the exp quests I think you should be able to lvl through quests if you wanted to because there are a lot of players who will play a game with an engaging quest line and it would be great to make the questing experience well enough that it's attractive to this group of people as well. In short, 75% or more. Keep in mind, if the rewards are exp and crafting recipes/mats focused, players will still need to grind to get mats they need from mobs and gather for their materials. Otherwise it will become difficult to continue on with the quests once you get to a lvl that your gear doesn't support you in combat as much anymore.

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

As mentioned above about making quests feel more engaging and a means to leveling up. The best quest system I've seen is the Elder Scroll Online system. Blade & Soul Neo had a good system too. ESO is the only game I actually LOVED doing quests, they were engaging, well structured grouping areas the quests are picked up, and where they needed to be done in. The markers both quest givers (and the quest types) and where the quests areas covered were well done and clear, I didn't have to spend so much time going online looking up where to do a given quest. And lastly, in ESO I felt the quests, most of them anyway, were a core part of the gaming experience. I LOVE a good story, but I much prefer playing an amazing story than reading one in a book or watching one on tv.

Don’t feel limited to the thought-starters above. Feel free to drop whatever feedback you have regarding your experiences with quests below 👇

I realize that the quests and questing system is still in Alpha and needs work, but I do hope we see a major overhaul of the current system to make them more engaging and valuable to players. May it be through the rewards received to support other systems like crafting and gaining experience, or through amazing story lines and over all flow of the quests including how they impact the world around you.

One other thing I'd like to express and I hope this is received well, is to allow quests to shape your reputation in the world. not just faction reputations, but rather player decisions with the quests impacting how people see the player (and what quests are then available). Think D&D and ESO.

I would love ashes to be a game where I can reroll a new character and take a totally different route and accessing different parts of the game. Hell one of my favorite parts of ESO was doing the quest lines and behavior (thieving and murdering) to get access to secret areas and associated factions like the Dark Brotherhood. I think it would be an incredible addition to the game especially for RP folks.

Kiwi_

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)
2.5
I honestly think there was a huge step in the right direction. There are a couple quests with quite good rewards, but overall they are still way too low.
While I do think that questing should be a little less rewarding than straight up grinding - I don't think the difference should be that high.
Imo quests in Ashes should give you an alternative road of getting exp, gear and money instead of just grinding. Throughout all levels.
I fair balance in my eyes would be something like the absolute minimum amount of time you could do a quest in (with walking and killing mobs and everything) like a GM that knows every exact spot, that should give you the same value as if you spent that time grinding. Because then the value would at all times stay at least slightly below the grind value.

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?
There are some quests with rewards atm that I think are quite good. The two material bags you can get for example. Also some of the gear quests, like the starter one where you can choose 3 green gear pieces. The New Aela surplus questline is also not too bad, but overall most quests are really not worth the time you need to spend on them.
So I think just balancing things with the time the Quests take you would really improve this here. Again it shouldn't be more rewarding than grinding, but rn it's not good.
I do like that there are quests that give more exp, some with more glint and some with gear instead. I prefer it this way over always getting much of everything.
One thing is terrible imho though. The fact that with the surplus questlines you can accidently go for a questline with way way worse rewards is just not good, this has to be changed so it's somewhat the same. Doesn't have to be the exact same rewards, but for example getting more exp in New Aela vs getting more gear for the Joeva one would work, atm this is not balanced at all.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?
Basically what I've written above, it's mostly about time spent in the game. Spending a lot of time on something without getting something in the end never feels good. Whether that's irl, in dungeons, grinding or questing.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
Honestly - I don't think there should be a percentage. I don't think you should be forced to do quests or events or grind or gather at all. You should be able to choose between all the possible paths that Ashes of Creation offers and should get a somewhat equal amount of valuables in return for your time. Whether that's gear or exp or money. I also think you should be able to gain more exp and level by doing only stuff like driving caravans or gather stuff. Although this would need to be balanced well.
Stuff like afk fishing etc should of course not work for that, but if somebody solely wants to focus on gathering and crafting in this world, I feel like they should be able to do that. Maybe level a little slower than other methods, but still level, and maybe get more glint or gear instead as they're making stuff.

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?
Honestly, just talking about quests I think you're absolutely on the right track there. I personally usually never like questing, as it feels super repetitive and tedious. But during P2.5 I've spent most of my time testing the questing with many different characters as well to cover all the questlines.
And I gotta say that I didn't get bored at all.
I really like the balance of some quests requiring you to do a little bit of riddling, some require you to kill monsters and so forth.
There's a good amount of variety with interesting stories and stuff to explore.
I like how the quests let you explore the world and the places in Verra giving you more insights into the lore while also not being completely forced to be into lore at all. (In most games I'm a person that's not into the lore)
I wish there were more quests where you would have to do exploring in a sense that you go places with nice visuals giving you even more of the "exploration" feeling.
And while I really do enjoy the quests where you have to do some thinking on, there's some stuff that I would like to point out in regards to those quests:
- Quests that require reading and thinking have to have the right markers, some of those have wrong markers and such which really is making things difficult
- Quests that require reading and thinking should be readable again. Most of those quests have information in the NPC dialogue that you can only read once when picking up or progressing in the quest, this is not really good QoL imo. If it's not in the questlog description, you should at least be able to go back to the NPC and talk with them again.
- Some quests are missing markers while others wouldn't need them. There are a lot of quests that have markers where I think you wouldn't need them as it would be a perfect quest to explore and read into, while others are not having any markers or indicators where it would be really needed as the description by far doesn't give the info you need

Last but not least - additional quest feedback:
- some quests are too hard to find. In terms of where to pick them up. I'm not saying it should be easy, but some follow up quests for example I only found by accident, as there was to clue at all.
- warnings when starting a decision quest. Like with the surplus questlines, there should be some way of knowing you lock yourself out of other questlines, right now there is no indicator whatsoever
- more quests please. Especially those that can be randomly found in the open world, I love those! Exploring and then finding a spot to take on a quest feels great!
- keep up the direction! I really like where this is going!

Elyxsur

“What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?”

I think this is probably the most important one , the others can all be tweaked as you go but this is pretty fundamental.

For me a huge part of my enjoyment and what makes me look forward to getting into the world and day dreaming about my build or excited to conquer something with friends is just knowing that I have options when I log on to choose how I want to spend my time.

I’m not saying the rest of the risk components need to be compromised or the grinding needs to be lessened I 100% enjoyed mass farming otters for 4 hours with my friends one night. I’m just saying there has to be choice. For me it would be really disheartening to think about every time I want to get on I have to be at the will of other people in a group or I can hardly move through the world. Or accomplish anything. I definitely enjoy getting together with my core people and grinding and bullshiting for hours . I definitely enjoy showing up for my guild to help defend our home. I definitely enjoy following my raid around and defeating world bosses and looting dungeons.

But also
Sometimes I want to just immerse myself in the world with my headphones on with no ones else’s voices and constant chatter in my ear. I don’t wanna have to follow a group around and sight see like I’m a tourist . I want to be able to explore on my own terms and kick back relax and get lost is some interesting micro narrative helping the people of the world.

I don’t think questing needs to have to the best rewards ever , personally , and I’m by no means suggesting this I’m just saying …I’d be content if questing was full of unique transmogs and lore and that was it really. ( obviously xp as well I’m sure there are plenty of people who want to be able to have the choice to level at least partly through this too) but I think they need to be plentiful and chaining and narratively inspired (not fetch , kill count etc) and found all over the world and do not require a group.

The quests need to be there for the times that i need a choice to not be so involved all the time and that i can still be in Verra and not some other game world that i would prefer not to be in.

IMO ESO has the best Questing in modern MMOs and that’s not saying much lol I’m not saying look to ESO for anything else but they’ve nailed the questing vibe check. Fully voiced helps too I’m sure. Or like stumbling upon GW2s “hidden” open world dungeons. (Not really the same thing but still so good) most mmo quests are fetchy, kill count, delivery, grind only, big SIGH experiences and I full heartedly believe Ashes deserves better than that.

Something like ESO/GW2 a quest can take through the deep dark corners of the world and meeting people you’ll probably never even see again. And that’s great. I dont want main characters, I dont want a 50000 hr main story, I don’t want mass easy xp or max level to come easily or any quicker at all. I dont want anything else about Ashes to be less.. I just want to have to the CHOICE to get lost by myself and wrapped up in something more interesting than the good ol grind sometimes.

I think that Verra deserves a world full of life beyond just its players and I think it would be a shame not to have immersive, interesting little stories to tell throughout.

Justaman

I would like to say the questing experience early on is ok minus the fact your fighting for every mob right off the bat. I know you made additional areas that make it easier.

On the scale of 1-5 I would say its a 2 or 3 as currently all you get is a small amount of glint with pretty bad xp but I know all that can be tuned at a later date. However what I will say is the questing does not have to make lvling as fast as group grinding but it should be better than it is currently.

The Questing rewards right now are ok especially if your wanting to focus on all gear being crafted. However would be nice to get something maybe some rare resources if gear is not an option. If you are going the route of providing gear as rewards then you would need to redesign the gearing system to add much more gear. The only thing that really matters is some currency along with enough xp to make questing worth the time investment. With games like WoW the gear is pretty much just turned into enchanting mats or quick gold at the vender along with transmog. The main point of questing is to guarantee xp for a task and also a great chance to interact with quest givers.

The best part about questing is how cool the quest giver is and most can be average but you need a cool unique one here and there and that is how epic stories start and it will also get people immersed in the world. You can use them to push the narrative and invest in the world. Currently when I play I normally avoid all the NPC's and just pretty much bum rush the first quests to lvl 5 then I rarely even go town town after that except to empty my bags. Group grinding is ok as long as it's not forced but the way the game is right now its quite boring going from grinding spot to grinding spot.

Personally I really enjoy questing systems and 75% or more is good with me for leveling up. I chose this percentage because it's how I learn the story and tie myself into the world. The epic adventure starts small and then builds up to where I am a hero by the end. If you only grind solo or group grind your not tied to the world at all. No one knows you in the game NPC wise and that means what's the point of me logging in I am of no use to anyone. Yes, interacting with IRL people can do this but you still need a great questing system because it just makes the game better and the more options for game play the better. However I may like to grind in a big group make memories a couple days a week but there are times where I just wanna immerse myself and do objectives and quests in the game. I like how there are open instances and bosses but the thing really missing in this game is a quest system. Yes we can pick up board quests but we don't even have to go back to town we click a button and boom you got your reward which is not realistic. The whole point of the questing is to make you feel like your helping real characters in the game and eventually the unique and epic ones become cultural and icons in the world.

Another thing about questing is we need to know whose a quest giver and who is not the Icons currently are not good on how to identify this. Maybe the person needs to be highlighted or the icons need to be bigger and more noticeable. When questing I don't want to have to guess on who I need to turn it into. Also a mini map marker helps or a big map with it marked on it think of the addon "Questie" from wow. Also when I am on the quest trying to figure out who the named mob is is not easy to figure out and sometimes I go to find them will kill the whole camp and be there 20+ minutes with no respawn. Also on the pick up type quests where I am trying to find things on the group the items need to be highlighted or something because its so hard to see what or where they are. Also this might be bugged to maybe their clipped into the graphics in the ground. However currently questing is irrelevant because its not even close to efficient which is why I stopped helping test the game because I don't want to group grind or solo grind for 40+ hours. But the bones of the game is great I think if you add a quest system on top of the boards that will guide you to different places through out the world and make you do objective this game would be much better to play for longer periods. The thing of a great MMORPG like WoW or Final Fantasy 14 is that they all how options and most of them are viable to level up to max level with some slower than others but still possible.

Thank you,

Vaknar

Really awesome responses to be found throughout this thread

Appreciate the thought, effort, and consideration going into all of these posts! The team appreciates this feedback (they asked for it, after all, lol). I look forward to putting a report together for this one 😀

SoSpokeMika

Can't comment on things I haven't experienced, but I am best friends with someone who is in alpha so I am not totally in a dark. I also have a lot of MMO experience.

''Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?''
50-74% With tweaking based from player's feedback

''Why did you choose that percentage?''
It keeps a nice balance between group content and solo leveling.

''What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?''

First of all, how the quest is presented.
For example, take quest givers in Soulsborne games. They are usually presented in some somber mood with a few lines that are pretty much explain what you need to do, with a bit of lore and acted out flawlessly.

There is no dialogue, just maybe 3-4 sentences from NPCs and that's enough to hype you up. Study that those games when it comes to dialogues. It could save your money with minimal voice acting.

Second, environment they are set in. Paint a picture with your quest location and NPC that is giving it.
-Wounded knight that left a trail of blood in snow, giving you a quest with his dying breath.
-Maiden with white dress in poppy field that is actually a wraith
...and so on.

Make sure environment you are making is visually interesting enough that the area is not boring to grind in or do quests.

Third, Make some of your chain quest lead to something- A dungeon, group content, a satisfying/dissatisfying (tragic, cathartic, humorous, dark etc.) conclusion.

Blend in solo chain quest with group content at the end of the said quest. Maybe first two quest in chain are solo and 3rd one is a group quest.

Torsten

Well Lets get into it

Q: On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)

A: 2/5 there are not enough rewards for what we currently have to go through to complete them. not all quests should be easy but going through all the processes for what available right now makes the reward at the end very lack luster for most of them.

Q: How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?

A: They seem like mostly fillers at this point in time from what i have experienced. whats working well is the path, as in obtaining knowledge and figuring out what to do next. it is rather hard to immerse yourself into a fantasy setting for a quest like obtaining a legendary quest just from a simple rock cairn is pretty wild to me(not to mention that specific quest but its a mess in and of it self). as to what could be improved id say immersion first off, rewards next( make them a little more meaningful if possible for higher end quests) but most importantly if we are doing a Quest, allow us to play in a way where we wont have to worry about being ganked by a bunch of angry kids in a group just because theyre having a bad day because thats not fun for literally anybody

Q: in your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?

A: Ill just stick with the bulletin board quests in towns for this one. they arent rewarding enough, and then just seem like more of a chore than an engaging experience. and no normal person plays games to do chores. to help the towns, at say lvl3 or so we shouldnt have to repeat the same quests 20 times just to get enough resources to help the town per capita and pay our storage bill. worrying about if ill make enough glint at the end of the week to still have access to my own resources that i had to fight hundreds of other players just to obtain is not engaging in a positive way at all.

Q: Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?

A: I feel like a small portion maybe 25-30% of leveling should come from quests if that according to the setting of how ashes is laid out, me personally im used to questing accumulating about 60% or more of leveling but ashes is an entire different style than most MMOs i have played

Q: What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

A: What helps me connect to a game world is good meaningful stories and great atmosphere and feeling accomplishment for things you do in the game. Ashes as it stands right now, unless youre in say an RP guild, has absolutely no immersion at all. you spend all your time grinding for minuscule gains and opportunities to participate in events only to know that its most likely going to get stolen by zergs of angry kids. you can not accomplish anything significant in Ashes by your self and that is a HUGE break in immersion. im not a game developer so i dont know how to fix it. but if at all possible, cut scenes for some larger quests may be a cool idea to help get the player truly immersed in what they are doing

Reflet

Quest rewards in Alpha Two : 2

There is little interest questing in alpha two now. No impact on the character (reputation or else) and the rewards aren't that good since the player has to go into the wild to grind/kill tones of mobs to level up. Quests/commissions gives so few XP that I'm not sure it's even profitable to run to the commission board and back to grinding spot instead of just staying around killing mobs (on a XP side of the rewards). The item side of the reward is just profitable for players who didn't get the luck of dropping anything while gridding. The money/currency reward is about ok... even if still don't understand the purpose "in game" of the glints. Glint is used here as a currency... like money, and since a currency refers to any form of money that is used as a medium of exchange for goods and services why do we have two currencies here : glints and money (gold, silver, copper...)??

In my opinion, quests should reflect the player's commitment to the faction they are in and/or the NPC they are doing the quest for. Obtaining an experience gain symbolizing their increased knowledge, a reputation gain from the locality showing how well known they are becoming, and a reward in the form of money and/or an item related to the task completed.

25–49% should come from questing compared to other activities

I think that close to 50% of XP should come from quests and the other half should come from what the player did to succeed in doing them. The credit from gathering and crafting should go directly to gathering and crafting.

I’ll feel more connecting to the world if I have to act for that world by doing quests and else, and if the quests I’m doing are meaningful (killing 10 wolves is only useful if there are way too many wolves around that kills every other species in the forest ; especially if we need to have deers or rabbits around for some recipes).

blotavious

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)
- Early levels a 3, later levels 2

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?
- They seem uneven...some quests have a lot of hoops to jump through but the reward at the end might be "meh." The rewards also do not seem to take into account the user's class. Can't wait to see the actual quest system in A3, the current placeholder is a source of frustration

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?
- There need to be drops in the game and decent quest rewards. However, the BEST equipment should almost always be player crafted. The one exception to this would be a quest reward for an epic quest, these rewards should also be among the best obtainable. Also, drops/rewards in the game should be mostly (around 80%-90%) "bind on acquire" so they can't be sold or given to an alt. Some proportion of crafted gear should also be BOA to keep the economy moving.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
- This depends on how good the quests are. If your writers are really creative then I would love a large proportion (>50%) of exp come from quests. If they aren't engaging or are grindy, then less than that. Also, quests should lead players to level-appropriate content, dungeons, resource/monster areas and so on.

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?
- Of course having an epic story backdrop where the player feels they play an active role. All MMOs say they do this but very few pull it off. LotRO did a decent job with this concept.

I really hope AoC is the first MMO to utilize AI to create player-specific, instanced quests. Imagine a player being offered a unique quest line that is not available to anyone else (except perhaps the player's party), where the player has no idea what is coming, and is never repeated exactly the same again. This sort of dynamically generated unique content would really help make the world seem "alive."

Ace1234

Regarding the percentage of leveling for questing, there should be options that reflect risk vs reward. I think the more difficult game loops with the highest rewards and most amount of emergence/systems layered together should require a percentage of playtime from all the systems involved to properly reflect progression and mastery. The required involvement should scale proportional to each system's involvement in the game loop (like 25% questing, 25% artisanship, 25% combat skill, 25% naval, for example).

There should also be lower reward game loops that involve less emergence/systems layered into the experience, to provide agency to players who like to play in more specific ways. These should obviously require more playtime from those specific systems (like 100% questing for a questing only game loop/progression path), but these wouldn't be as effective at maxing out progression within all the systems obviously, which would push players more towards the more emergent play loops.

So to answer the question, the exact percentage should depend on the play-loop context, rather than a "one size fits all" percentage.

As far as making questing as immersive and dynamic as possible, i've posted a lot about that already in other related discussions that can touch the questing systems, so no need for me to repeat anything.

For ease of reference:
- commissions preview feedback (mar 2024)
- lore character dev discussion (mar 2023)
- storytelling with archetypes (aug 2024)
- treasure hunts livestream feedback (jan 2025)
- music dev discussion (dec 2024)

I didn't just focus solely only on those specific topics in my posts but moreso on how I think they can spill over and affect other aspects of the game such as questing, so if you read those posts of mine you will have a good understanding of what I think makes for more immersive and dynamic questing based on how it interacts with those various systems.

ashdam

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)
How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?
2, think exp should be improved. I cannot tell about money and other rewards since I don't have data about this.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?

Additional to the expected "gold", some material rewards could be ingredients or materials that player might sell in the market.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
Less than 25%
25–49%
50–74%
75% or more
Why did you choose that percentage?

I think you shouldn't choose a linear % increase.
* First measure measure 1h of grinding (everage not meta-maximum-grinding) and now comparee to the time it take a person to complete a given quest.
* You have data on how much time a player spends in accomplishing a quest.
* Increase accorddingly.

You could do the same exercesise for each activity in the world

Improvements:
* By level ranges, activity
* Stablish an strategy target time you want a player to spend for every single activity type /event and modify accordingly

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?
Exploration, Quests with some interesting lore behind the quests, voice located NPC (even though its an AI) definitely

mr_taffy

Vaknar wrote: »

Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly Q&A thread, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!

In this thread, we’ll be discussing:

Dev Discussion - Let's Talk Quests!

The team would like to gather comprehensive sentiment on quests as they currently exist. Nothing is in the final state, as we’re always looking to refine and make improvements to systems during Alpha Two. While fine-tuning will be a main focus of later testing phases, we still want to hear your thoughts on what can be improved regarding quests!

We’d love your thoughts on:
On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
Less than 25%

25–49%

50–74%

75% or more

Why did you choose that percentage?

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

Don’t feel limited to the thought-starters above. Feel free to drop whatever feedback you have regarding your experiences with quests below 👇

3. I feel like quests should been used to teach mechanics of the game, while also helping with experience gain. Adding any kind of loot or materials to be gained from a quest I feel defeats the purpose of a player driven game, if the NPCs are supplying you with a bunch of items. Personally, I think area events should be more common as well.

4. 25-49% so thats a difficult question to answer, become if this game is meant to be social, then allowing solo players to rush through the game via quests would diminish the player engagement with the social aspect of the game. In my humble opinion, I would argue that the best way to earn Exp should be with grouping or helping with a node. Have quests made to be completed in a group at Pois that have enemies designed to be taken by a group. Have a node loyalty system that rewards players a bonus in exp for completing gathering, crafting, and PvE, PvP commissions. Offer higher exp yields for events that gain more players. Have exp being earned through actually interacting with the world and the player base, instead of letting players solo zerg through, and only participate in the PvE part of the game.

5. I love this question. Adding on top of what I said in my last answer, design the game to require you to actually interact with other players and nodes themselves. This not being a theme park MMO, the player doesnt need to be the chosen one, or someone who can solo all the content by themselves. Create an environment where the players WANT to be a part of this world. I'm a PvE player by heart, but give me the chance to be a part of a node that is unique compared to others, so I can defend it or siege other nodes that dare to threaten our home! Grant more space for freeholds, so towns and cities actually feel lived in, rather than a hub to buy stuff and store your items at.

Jamdu

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two?
2 - It's not that the quests are necessarily bad, but rewarding our efforts for easily spending 20, 30, up to 45-minutes on one quest that requires significant travel and grinding in locations that are over-populated should be more consistent with the time spent achieving and completing them.

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?
there seem to be certain quests that are essentially required to complete in order to make it past the early game, but then almost entirely disappear in relevance post level 10. If the emphasis is to gather, craft, quest, and grind equally, milestones at certain levels could be a good idea. For example: a quest starting at level 1 that helps get to level 6/7 but if individuals properly utilize and explore zones to grind and build artisanship, can easily achieve level 9-10, now create something similar for every 10 levels to help feel more connected to the world and its lore.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?
quest-building/chains, create quests that build off eachother and potentially branch to allow players to feel rewarded following certain quest paths. As you approach the end of the quest chain, the rewards increase up to a point where it helps set up for the next adventure individuals embark on (starting gear, potions, enhancement scrolls) and clearly match the difficulty in tandem with what's rewarded. Same concept with PvP, potentially create quests that help incentivize pvp but rewarding with pvp specific gear and such. But don't forget to tie them in to the story of the world, what's happening, whats the conflict, how close are we getting to the 'Big Bad'. There are so many great area's that Intrepid could build cool story lines that reward gear or achievements (tied to exp) to make them fall in love with certain factions or territories.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
Easily, less then 25%

Why did you choose that percentage?
questing post 10 feels inconsistent, does not engage me to pay attention to the story, and feels like it just fills the gaps.. but without the feeling of achieving something.

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?
The world building, node system, and lively area's all help me feel like the world is truly alive, but in order to immerse myself and feel the impact of its nature, create unique story lines that drive mystery, adventure, and recognition. Take Runescape for example, the quests in Runescape have always been so unique, taking you to new environments and rewarding you with classic gear that is recognizable across its ecosystem, try something near that approach.

chibibree

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)
How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?
Currently, for me, it is 1 to 2. I'll have to take more time to think and edit to add more info later.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?
Something that allows me to keep up with pure grinders more or less. Additionally, with Verra being how it is, having flexibility where I can get some types of quests done. For example, if a quest wants a Grem's tooth, let me get it off of any grem since there are grem of different levels across the Riverlands.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
50–74%
Why did you choose that percentage?
I imagine that my time will be a combination of taking up the quests plus the commissions and events. Hopefully, they go together well and all connect well with the story ARC for the current narrative.

The other 25% to 50% can come from gathering and artisanships

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

I like it when a questing system supplements exploration and story. I loved the thought of quests being the hook back into the primary story arc -- be it Events, area-wide quests or even biome-wide quests. I think the intended plan to have dynamic events reacting to player actions is amazing and something I've been looking forward to since the kickstarter. I have enjoyed the events that do exist, though I wish there were a lot more across the biomes.

Right now, it feels like Miraleth and Winstead are artificially drawn towards since that area is more fleshed out with Events.

Disobedient

Unfortunately the bar for storytelling is astronomically high because of all the amazing movies people have seen. Unless you can compete with that level of animated production, it’s not even worth spending too much time on. Just give good rewards and give people a skip button.

allimartinez324

Last night, I leveled my bard from the start of 15 to halfway through 16 in about 3 hours doing RoS. Most of that time was spent with lvl 20s training mobs/killing us/looting our bodies (over and over), and then about an hour of chaos when the group logged into their 20+ mains to PvP the trainers. Realistically, we were actually pulling mobs for around 2 hours—and that earned us six XP quarter-bars (about a level and a half). Yes, it was really fun despite the people training us.

This morning, I spent two hours on my lvl 15 fighter grinding through commission boards and stumbled on a side quest in an estate zone. It had a range of mob difficulties—I could handle the regulars and 1-stars, but the place was swarming with 3-stars that I just couldn’t kill. After dying a few times, I gave up on the quest and went back to commissions. I started at level 15 with ~17k XP debt, ran all over the place finishing tasks, and after two full hours walked away with just 8.9k XP. Sure, the debt is gone, but that’s still a miserable return for the time spent.

TL;DR: 2 hours of Seph = a level and a half | 2 hours of questing = a centimeter of a quarter-bar.

Last night was a blast. This morning, I'd rather do laundry.

Yoh

First I'd like to point out that it's been a hot moment since I did any questing, since phase 1. So bag full of salt here.

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)

1-2.

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?

From my experience, their not worth the time of day. Either reward or experience wise, with the sole exception being the beginner tutorial quest to get your first mount. Because there appears to be no level scaling for the quests, you can wind up taking a high level quest in a beginner area, only to be sent to an area where you will be one shot. Why even offer quests if they cannot be done at the level in which you find them?
And don't get me started on the crappy AI voices. Kills any and all mood I have to do a quest. I'd rather just read.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system?

Whatever gold reward there is should be relatively equal to the same amount of time spent grinding mobs of the same level, at the very least. Perhaps even have said reward scale on player level, if the intent is to have quests remain valuable or useful regardless of level.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)?
Less than 25%
25–49%
50–74%
75% or more

Depends if we are talking main quests or side quests, and sum total or per level. For a side quest, about 20-30%, depending on length. For a main story quest, 50-70%. They should be very rewarding. Group quests, if you have them, about 40-50%.

Why did you choose that percentage?

Quests can do a lot of heavy lifting to connect players to the game world and its characters, so it should be rewarding.

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

I think an 'all of the above' method to experience and gold gain works the best. Where regardless of what activity you are doing, your being rewarded for your time equally, from questing, grinding mobs, crafting to exploring. So that no matter what you feel like doing that day, your going to get rewarded for it.
Basically, this is what Guild Wars 2 does. And it works really very well.

By having a wide range of activities, you can meet people where they are and give them something rewarding to do. And the more time they spend in your game, the more they will get attached and immersed.
In the short term, exploration and visas would be an easy addition. Jumping puzzles would be nice too.

warner1

Questing isnt really pulling me into story now, i did try to do them but only few were good.

I remember when I played WOW and came back to it when Pandaria came out, this was exactly what made me really like the quest and story, with some cinematics sceens in between. I really felt like a part of the world, like a real hero. I have to admit that in one moment i even pull out some tears because it was so emotional. I never felt more connected to the story and game.

For me personally grinding is like a job, you go there and do the same over and over which feels like next job. I wanna come home from work and enyjoy the story and feel to be a part of it. But also you dont wanna stuck on lvl 15 while everyone else is already lvl 25 even though you play same amount of time

tatertime

On a scale of 1–5, how would you rate the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? (1 = Very poor, 5 = Excellent)

Hello! I am having fun in the alpha! I give questing a 2.

How would you describe the current quest rewards in Alpha Two? What’s working well, and what could be improved?

I want to start by saying I will go out of my way to follow quests and quest chains. I like them in MMOs.

These are very poor rewards overall. It seems the XP for turn ins doesn't quite scale with the quests very well, esp chain quests. The glint amount doesn't translate well to feeling like a decent amount (some of that could be because of larger economy issues where a lot of things are outrageously expensive that seem like they should not be). I know you do not want to hand out gear, but for example the questline to get the tokens to get gear from the Surplus vendor is very obscure and there are a large number of guides online because of how hard the quest line is to follow. It seems like some quests have good markers and others don't. You're in a spot where you want people to be reading and driven to find the next clue themselves, but it seems like only SOMETIMES. Much of the time it's clearly marked on the map. I don't know how you balance mystery with user friendliness but I feel like right now, any quest that doesn't have full markers is just "an alpha thing" and it's not meant to be that way?

What oculd be improved: Icons for quest availability/progress. There is the book icon but many times I go to the NPC and he doesn't actually have a quest for me. I just want to know why. "You're too weak for this job" "come back with friends" "You haven't even done X yet" etc would help. OR I have already actually done the quest and the book still shows up.

Also zooming in on the map sometimes reveals more quest markers, which is great but it's very inconsistent at what map zoom distance they actually show up. There are 2 types of quest book icons. They are waaaay too similar imo. I also struggle to know which NPCs quest I am currently doing because the icon does not change (that I can see). I know its the classic example, but in WoW you have an ! and a ? to help players recognize what's new/in progress. Some NPCs names glow/shine when you can interact with them and some have quest text that triggers when you are nearby them. These are all great. BUT this does not seem to be consistently applied throughout the process. I don't ever want to see another ! over an NPC in my life so I think you're doing nicely here with the way NPCs get your attention, it's much more immsersive but sometimes I can't figure out "am I already on this quest" "do they have another quest" "did I already do that quest"? type stuff. I am all for "secret/hidden" quests too that are not on the main map, but in alpha right now it's hard to tell what's purposefully hidden and what just isn't finished.

In your opinion, what makes for engaging and fair quest rewards in a game like Ashes of Creation that features an economy-driven PvX system? I think fair quest rewards have to balance out against other forms of money/gear acquisition. They can perhaps be lacking in physical item rewards if the XP is very good. Have players do the quests for XP, exploration, coin, and perhaps collectible but somewhat useless trinkets/cosmetics. Perhaps longer chains could reward some interesting gear. I am imagining a larger core story quest chain for each 5 level range that is supported by side-quests. But never reward gear for quests that are like deliveries from A to B.

Roughly what percentage of your leveling experience do you feel should come from questing compared to other activities (e.g., grinding, gathering, events)? I think it should be an avenue for significant content at all levels. I would say around 50% to 75% could be quest driven. This high percentage gives players a consistent path to follow. I would also hope that there would be many quests to choose from at any level so that not everyone is railroaded down the exact same line.

Questing could be better accompanied/supported by commission boards. I think the commission boards should tie more into quests. I really do not like commission boards. I feel they are lazy excuses for a real questing system. I know this is a common way of doing quests in games these days but boy I wish it wasn't. It's not immersive in any way. This system COULD be expanded to make it more fun and interesting. The comission cards/tiles could be kind of like a game. If you do certain ones, others unlock. If you check at night certain ones are available. IF you have done x quest x number of times, it triggers some new quest. There is currently something about rarities of comissions in game but I don't understand it at all, and I also don't understand why the comission board is flipping over cards after I selected them. If they aren't available because I already have them, they should not be visible. It feels very buggy.

What helps you feel connected to a game world, and what could Ashes of Creation do to feel more immersive and dynamic?

I feel more connected to the game world when I have a clear path to forge ahead that is not based on grinding piles of mobs standing around in open fields (or in really nice ruins or whatever). I like to kill lots of mobs but I do appreciate a good reason for doing so otherwise I start feeling like I am just a CCU number you need to keep logged in and that feels not great. I like to collect lore and treasures and see other people out in the world too. I like discovering things like random caves or places to climb. Honestly, just trigger my "oh shiny" and let me move around and pick up things without worrying about a full inventory all the time and I am happy. I also would feel more connected to the world if I felt that my actions were having a real impact on the world, but so far no game has done this except WoW with Phasing starting in Wrath of the Lich King (Idk if they still do that or not I can see how it would be a massive technical pain). I think the politics and caravans are helping in this realm although I am not much participating and this system seems to be for organized groups.

I also feel more connected when the game scales properly. If you send me on a level 5 quest, and I am not able to do it til level 9, that is not good. Many quests in game seem to have this problem right now. Some of this may be because of grouping issues. I think most people approach quests from a solo PoV and will need a hint when a group is helpful or required as a heads up before heading out to the quest [group quest] or "you'll want to bring friends." type tags or dialogue. I run into this scaling issue on quests I think should be soloable.

I feel like AoC is currently separating "grind/quest here" zones from other stuff too much. It's kind of like an American suburb. People live in big subdivisions and then go shopping in big strip malls on the other side of town. In AoC we have these towns where crafting and quest boards happen. And we have the POIs where we do the quests. It's all so rigidly separated into these little bubbles. I don't know exactly how to integrate them more, but ti would be nice if it was. Having things to do in town would help.

leaky76

I've had approximately twenty three characters from level one to fifteen, give or take five. Quest, when they do work can be a great deal of fun. Though I've only been able to complete probably two characters with the coin tokent quest chain properly. Due to service being bugged through network
And synchronization issues. However, when they did work, it was a great deal of fun. Quite honestly, the biggest thing would be quest simply working seamlessly.

Quest rewards, it just aren't relative to leveling progression. And usefulness. 1 out 5.

I personally would like to see about 65 to 75% Quest experience per level give or take 15%.

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