PvP arena in cities (like a colosseum)

Having public arenas in cities, that anyone can spectate.
I don't know if this has been discussed already, if it has im sorry.

Since pvp will be a core part of the game, adding a social pert to it would benefit the game it could be an interesting thing if you could make a name for yourself with it. Since in most mmo-s arena style pvp is always just instanced, and you can only do basic duels out in the world.
With a public arena (maybe like wows brawler's guild) thats in a core part of the node, people would always be around to watch.(I'm not saying this should be the only form of arena pvp, just an addition.)
Just as you will have a mayor in the node, you could have champions(maybe even some ai enemies) that you could challenge in the city arena.
Making events around it could make it even better. (slap on the option to make bets in some form and its a win)
Though its important to mention that since this would be in a public place in the world (and not instanced) only 1 match could be played at a time in 1 arena (you could have multiple ofc) so maybe some form of restrictions should be made for them, like events, or who can challenge who, but thats the design part that im not good at.

I hope something like this could get into the game, for me this was always missing from pvp (though i will probably not be good enough to get into these arenas)

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Arya_Yeshe

That would be great

We know that Military nodes will have an Arena where it will be decided who will be de mayor, the military node has this nice option which gives a chance to a solo player to be mayor, since he needs no votes or gold

For sure Military nodes deserve this and maybe the other nodes could have a small arena or a fight pit, would be cool if you could walk around the city and around the colosseum while listenning the crowd and listenning trumpets (brass instruments)

To me, players should be stimulated into fighting since level 1 and they could do in arenas like that

I see as important people dying in pvp since the beginning, this will create a community with less whining, less snowflaking and less carebearing, this is the kind of thing that makes carebear toxicity go away

Carebears can ruin any game with their endless whining until the companies start pandering them, later on they complain the game is not fun anymore

Fixing people in the arena builds a better community

Voeltz

I completely agree. Although I love instanced PvP and it's perks, there's nothing like being there in the open world with your character and other players watching a battle unfold. This has been a big missed opportunity by other game devs in my opinion to make something amazing. The potential it has to create an environment that is a center for competition, player made events/tournaments, Socializing, entertainment, and some gambling/wagering. I've made posts in the past describing it in detail how it could work. I've also seen lots of other posts about it so hopefully they listen to us

Nuub

Considering the number of arena matches going on at any given time, they could allow mayors to add an arena as part of node development options, and populate the arenas based on the mmr of the combatants. For instance, low mmr players may not ever be placed in an arena for spectators to observe, but mid range mmr might get into a server's level 3 node arena, and the highest mmr players get into the metropolis arenas.

Alternatively, because cross realm arenas being viewable would be a real feat to execute, limit the viewed arenas to matches between players who are both on the same server. The number of matches would be fewer, but the fans are more likely to be familiar with the combatants.

Arya_Yeshe

Voeltz wrote: »

I completely agree. Although I love instanced PvP and it's perks, there's nothing like being there in the open world with your character and other players watching a battle unfold. This has been a big missed opportunity by other game devs in my opinion to make something amazing. The potential it has to create an environment that is a center for competition, player made events/tournaments, Socializing, entertainment, and some gambling/wagering. I've made posts in the past describing it in detail how it could work. I've also seen lots of other posts about it so hopefully they listen to us

I COMPLETELY CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT THIS, THIS IS BAD:

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD

Yes, for a change I would love to walk on the streets around the arena and hear the crowd, just like Romans would at Rome

Hopefully AoC won't have instanced areas, unless in the future there's ranked matches and live events being streamer that require very low ping

BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD

I REGRET EVER SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT HAVING OPEN WORLD AREAS

K1nor

Nuub wrote: »

Considering the number of arena matches going on at any given time, they could allow mayors to add an arena as part of node development options, and populate the arenas based on the mmr of the combatants. For instance, low mmr players may not ever be placed in an arena for spectators to observe, but mid range mmr might get into a server's level 3 node arena, and the highest mmr players get into the metropolis arenas.

Alternatively, because cross realm arenas being viewable would be a real feat to execute, limit the viewed arenas to matches between players who are both on the same server. The number of matches would be fewer, but the fans are more likely to be familiar with the combatants.

It seems to me that not every node will want to place an arena in their city if it does not bring money (for example, from ticket sales) or resources. The only option in which your proposal, in my opinion, is relevant is the presence of "useless" cells for construction in the nodes, which can be filled with entertaining buildings (taverns, arenas, etc.).

As for the default placement of the arena in the city, this is also far from the best idea, given the large number of nodes on the map. 4-5 arenas in the world will look much more epic, where duel lovers come to participate in PvP or look at it.

Voeltz

K1nor wrote: »

It seems to me that not every node will want to place an arena in their city if it does not bring money (for example, from ticket sales) or resources. The only option in which your proposal, in my opinion, is relevant is the presence of "useless" cells for construction in the nodes, which can be filled with entertaining buildings (taverns, arenas, etc.).

As for the default placement of the arena in the city, this is also far from the best idea, given the large number of nodes on the map. 4-5 arenas in the world will look much more epic, where duel lovers come to participate in PvP or look at it.

You are exactly right. If every node had the option to build one, most would not since there will be more essential buildings needed in its place. So that means you would need a dedicated space for Arenas and other large buildings in order for them to have at least some presence in the world and even then it's not guaranteed. Either way this is not the best way to go about it, as Arenas could also become so common that players are spread out across the world leaving them with only a few people dueling and the rest of the place empty. That's not the goal.

The point is to make it a unique and epic experience walking into an arena, with masses of players there and npcs cheering. The only way to achieve this is by limiting or having a set amount of Arenas located throughout the world that way, players from other places would have to go there to experience it. The best way is to make Arenas a Point of Interest like a harbor, which becomes part of a node and grows/levels along side it. Then there would be no decision needed to build one or not. People from all over the world would be traveling to these locations to participate and arenas would be much more populated.

K1nor

Voeltz wrote: »

K1nor wrote: »

It seems to me that not every node will want to place an arena in their city if it does not bring money (for example, from ticket sales) or resources. The only option in which your proposal, in my opinion, is relevant is the presence of "useless" cells for construction in the nodes, which can be filled with entertaining buildings (taverns, arenas, etc.).

As for the default placement of the arena in the city, this is also far from the best idea, given the large number of nodes on the map. 4-5 arenas in the world will look much more epic, where duel lovers come to participate in PvP or look at it.

You are exactly right. If every node had the option to build one, most would not since there will be more essential buildings needed in its place. So that means you would need a dedicated space for Arenas and other large buildings in order for them to have at least some presence in the world and even then it's not guaranteed. Either way this is not the best way to go about it, as Arenas could also become so common that players are spread out across the world leaving them with only a few people dueling and the rest of the place empty. That's not the goal.

The point is to make it a unique and epic experience walking into an arena, with masses of players there and npcs cheering. The only way to achieve this is by limiting or having a set amount of Arenas located throughout the world that way, players from other places would have to go there to experience it. The best way is to make Arenas a Point of Interest like a harbor, which becomes part of a node and grows/levels along side it. Then there would be no decision needed to build one or not. People from all over the world would be traveling to these locations to participate and arenas would be much more populated.

This question is also very interesting from the point of view that the arena physically located in the city (or several cities) should somehow coexist with the matchmaking arena.

That is, if it provides only fun and no rating rewards, then the demand for it will be quite low compared to the same open world pvp or ship pvp, even if there are only a few arenas on the map.

In my opinion, the ideal option would be to implement local matchmaking. If I'm not mistaken, the game will not have an in-game auction shared with the server, so the same could be done with the arenas.
Let's assume that there are 3 arenas on the map, which, like the harbors, are predisposed in the node by default. Those who wish to compete come to one of the arenas and submit their application. As the matches begin, one of them will take place directly in the arena, and the rest (if there are a large number of people who want to fight) - in conditional "mirror" arenas without spectators.

At the same time, an interesting feature can be implemented in a queue for a real arena (let's say that a person wants to fight right here so that the audience can see his fight) by simply checking the "Only local arena" checkbox.

In any case, this implies the development of an additional system, which, perhaps, will not be fully launched at the start of the game, but will leave similar features and little things for one of the major updates of the first seasons of the game.

In addition, obviously, arena nodes can be more attractive to players, which casts doubt on the possibility of preinstalling them in the default node due to imbalance. A much more real feature is the ability to build arenas only for nodes with the maximum level, but in this case, everything again depends on the expediency of the arena from a military-political point of view, i.e. whether the guilds want to build it instead of a more useful building.

Voeltz

I think they could definitely coexist as they both bring their own unique experiences and advantages. Think of it as Global PvP vs. Local/Regional PvP. The Matchmade Arena System seems like it will be a core feature of the game where as Node Arenas would be more of a main attraction or feature of the node itself, like a Harbor or marketplace.

Matchmade Arenas have the advantage of being in a unique scenario every time without traveling there. One match takes you to a snowy mountain top, the next a desert, and after that a dense forest. Each time it could have a different game mode or team sizes. Another benefit is having shorter wait times/queues since they will likely have global matchmaking or possibly cross server.

Node based Arenas would be more structured. Team sizes and game modes would have to be restricted based on the size and layout of the arena. Naturally the best game modes suited for confined spaces are deathmatch and Team deathmatch. The focus would be on main event tournaments, player created/hosted events and duels. Players could duel freely while tournaments are not taking place. Sign ups would be done in person outside the arena entrance, there would also be an event calendar and local leaderboard.

Remember, there will be a variety of nodes for players to choose from, each having their own unique benefits. Although having an arena attached to a node might be tempting to players, It would not be crucial to have. Besides, I do not see that being a problem if it did have some influence over node development as there are many other factors involved that have even greater importance.

Arya_Yeshe

I think anyone should participate in the arena being citizen or not.

WARNNING:
WARNNING:
WARNNING:

One good reason about instanced colesseums is that it's easier finding fights!

I don't like instanced colesseums, but at least the waiting time will be much smaller if it's instanced and shared among all nodes!

Yes, I would love walking around open world colesseums, but there's a chance you won't find people to fight when you want and this big colesseum will be a dead space in the node!!

It would be a disaster having open world colesseums everywhere in every node because you won't find fights and it will just occupy big spaces and have nothing going on in it

Kallysha

DUDE YEEAASH

artwork from

from a 1x1 to 8x8
if big enough maybe even for guilds 20x20

Settite

Would be magnificent. A great pastime whenever you're just waiting for friend to group up or maybe after max level. Similar to hanging out watching fight clubs at pontiff in dark souls 3.

Kallysha

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

It would be a disaster having open world colesseums everywhere in every node because you won't find fights and it will just occupy big spaces and have nothing going on in it

Yes i agree, it could be the military node being the massive gladiatorial arena (colosseum) where even guilds could do 20x20, while the rest of the nodes could have smaller fighting pits for a 1x1 to maybe even 8x8; it would make more sense like this (actually its already stated military node - arenas)

Arya_Yeshe

Kallysha wrote: »

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

It would be a disaster having open world colesseums everywhere in every node because you won't find fights and it will just occupy big spaces and have nothing going on in it

Yes i agree, it could be the military node being the massive gladiatorial arena (colosseum) where even guilds could do 20x20, while the rest of the nodes could have smaller fighting pits for a 1x1 to maybe even 8x8; it would make more sense like this (actually its already stated military node - arenas)

However, I am not against using AoC technology to transmit the fights to multiple arenas. This way, people could queue up from any node and fight in the instance, while their 'ghosts would be broadcasted to all nodes

I'm smort as fuck

Vyllz

That would be great!

Volgaris

Great idea.

Probably every Node of X size should have one, but the military Nodes should have the grandest of areas. The Roman colosseum scale or bigger.

I don't know how many people will be able to spectate in open world. A few hundred for sure I think, it'd awesome if it was a 1000 or more! But for fights like for the military Node mayor that should probably be instanced and people should be able to join in to spectate with different camera angles to view from, we wouldn't want people crashing the fight by flooding the zone/mesh.

Vaknar

Looks like this thread is quite the design workshop! Lots of back-and-forth, some changing of minds, and some creative thinking around how a system like this could actually function. I hope to see more thoughts and examples of how PvP arenas could fit (specifically in Nodes), as well as *why* they should, in Ashes

Ludullu

Vaknar wrote: »

I hope to see more thoughts and examples of how PvP arenas could fit (specifically in Nodes), as well as *why* they should, in Ashes

L2 open world arenas. Steven knows them. They fit in Ashes just as well as they did in L2. They're simply a location right outside of town. With nodes this could even be right on the footprint, so that at later stages of a node the arena is INSIDE the massive node.

As for why - it's to prove that all the "pvpers" whining about lawless zones going away simply want to gank people, rather than wanting real pvp. Oh, and for those who DO want to just pvp - arenas would be there for them.

Dezemi

Vaknar wrote: »

as well as *why* they should

Because its immersive!

Throughout history, martial prowess and combat skills have always been valued in society, though its forms might differ. Depending on culture and age, it might have been more popular among the higher or lower classes of society; but in most societies controlled (or uncontrolled) violence have almost always been part of human culture(s).

We also know for a fact that combat prowess is a desirable trait in Verra; we have nodes built upon showing off combat skills (military nodes), and the survival of a node hangs on tactical combat prowess (sieges). Same goes for the survival of each individual character; as we are an adventurer in the eyes of Verra.

A world full of (returning) adventurers battling for survival would surely benefit greatly from local, organized forms of violence. Mayors wanting to display the superiority of their node's fighters while making a coin on people paying to watch or perhaps make bets, local lords and ladies scouting for skilled muscles for hire, locals wanting to battle their way up the social ranks and passing adventurers just looking to kill some time showing off what they (usually) do best; fight.

As for the gaming perspective? I think Settite nailed it with their comment:

Settite wrote: »

Would be magnificent. A great pastime whenever you're just waiting for friend to group up or maybe after max level. Similar to hanging out watching fight clubs at pontiff in dark souls 3.

Kallysha

Ludullu wrote: »

As for why - it's to prove that all the "pvpers" whining about lawless zones going away simply want to gank people, rather than wanting real pvp. Oh, and for those who DO want to just pvp - arenas would be there for them.

It starts to be very clear you are not a pvper, otherwise you wouldnt even say such a thing; arenas and lawless zones are not the same and lawless zones should exist...

Azherae

Kallysha wrote: »

Ludullu wrote: »

As for why - it's to prove that all the "pvpers" whining about lawless zones going away simply want to gank people, rather than wanting real pvp. Oh, and for those who DO want to just pvp - arenas would be there for them.

It starts to be very clear you are not a pvper, otherwise you wouldnt even say such a thing; arenas and lawless zones are not the same and lawless zones should exist...

Oh no, we're at 'Ludullu isn't a PvPer'.

It only goes downhill from here.

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