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Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
đź“ť Dev Discussion - Summoner Archetype
Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly Q&A thread, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!
In this thread, we’ll be discussing:
Dev Discussion - Summoner Archetype
- Which vessel stood out most to you - Guardian, Hunter, or Mystic?
- Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
- Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
- Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
- Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
Don’t feel limited to the thought-starters above. Feel free to drop whatever feedback you have regarding your experiences with the Summoner below 👇
1
Comments
EDIT: need to creat a character and use the boost NPC to transform to summoner.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/68568/ptr-update-notes-tuesday-september-30-2025#latest
My favourite was the Guardian. It looked chunky, I liked how it moved, and its clompy footsteps made me chuckle. The skills seemed decent enough, and I liked the way it was so interactive and flexible in what it could do.
The Summon with the Summoner's skills themselves made for a powerful combo. I know they're overtuned at the moment, but even so, I can see them being very effective.
I think it was reasonably clear what the vessels were doing. As clear as it is to see what other players are doing.
I wasn't really too bothered about the Summoner beforehand, but it's swayed me enough to give it another try at P3 release. Even if it's just for the Disintegrate and Void animations - YESSSSS
Hunter and guardian. I like the hunter as a dps focus summoner but I also liked the guardian becuase I love to be sometimes a tank and I feel both of their sets of abilities are great. For the mysthic it would be greate but one of her skill(the one that do dmg) is pretty bad for a healer/support summon, but if you got in the skill three the pasive of that ability it becomes a great ability
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
Summoner is fun at the start but as you lvl up it become a very confusing as you have to do a lot for your own with that many skill plus you have to look up to your vessel. I have to say that I like this kind of classes so I understand that people find it not a fun class
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
sometimes not as I was focus in using my own skills and sometimes I don't know if the pet is doing what I think is doing and also the bad movement of the pet makes me lost visual when I try to use the hunter dash for example
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
This class is one of the reasson I follow this proyect since nobody know of AoC, I hear steven talking about how this class I like a lot the path they wanted to go with this class, but now I think it has deviated a little bit.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
Yes, of course but because Summoner is one of my favourite classes in MMOs and this already is great concept
Now I will share my own opinion:
I will paste a comment I made in the ptr chat that many people agree on.
"I think the problem is not mainly in the summoner class, the problem is the design of the skill trees of all the clases and this is one of the things I talked on the survey.
You are supposed to choose x amount of skills of the skill tree making people having different play styles depending in the skill they choose but now what we have is classes that can have all the abilities of the skill tree so we have always the same classes no matter what and the summoner class is the most damaged with this. Summoner class skill tree should have dps/tank/support oriented skills that combos with each pet so you have to use them well in order to the pet working good, but you shouldn't be able to choose every single one of that skills making people think about what they want to select making the class more dps, tank or support oriented (or maybe you want to choose a bit of everything and be a mixed class but not the best dps, tank or healer but a versatile class) so it will be just a dps class with a tank or healing pet. This is a short explanation but my main point is that the skills trees we have suck because there is no point in having a skill tree if at the end you will have practically all the skills"
"They are making glued classes that work the same because all have all the skills of the tree instead of making classes that, depending in the skills you choose from the tree, will work in different ways like wow class specialization. For example, I should be able to be a venom focus rogue or a bleeding focus rogue or a more stealh rogue depending in the skills I'm able to choose not being able to choose all, but now we all are venom, bleeding stealth rogues because at max lvl you will have all skills so we have no room for creativity other than augmentations. So or they rework the skill tree system and skills or they make a pretty good augmentation system to make that diference."
Other of my other concerns is that this is feeling more like a warlock/necromantic-ish class rather than a summoner class. Right now this class is a dps class with a tank and healer pet too but mainly a dps as you as a player have a lot of dps skills. I think this is great for players who want to focus on a dps summoner but I think this skills should change(spirit shread and mortal blast are good as they are so I'm talking about the others) depending in the active vessel so if you have a tank for example if you have the guardian now skills like hex do less dmg but instead makes guardian get more threat generation.
In conclusion, I find this class great right know but I could be better, It needs to have more interaction between you an the pet so you have to think less about what do you and what your pet is doing separately. You as a Summoner should be caring about generating essence and thinking about what to do with your pet and what skill(from the summoner) should be better in that moment from what your vessel is doing. I find "Dimensional Bolt" a great example is a dps skill that interact with your pet making him teleport to the target. Don't get me wrong, I find skills like hex and suppresion ray great (more if you are focusing on being a dps summoner) but when playing a summoner you have to be thinking about generating essence, controlling your summon or interact with it and supporting rooting the target or silencing it so more than that is a lot for a class that is already that complex so if you have other skills will be better that interact with your pet in any way and It will be less demanding for your brain
Originally it was advertised that there were multiple variants of each archetype depending on the second class you picked. If this is the case, I feel making the Summoners default damage spells a damage over time is a mistake. This shoehorns it into a Warlock clone feeling class which many many MMOs did and were never that successful, even FFXIV eventually went a different route. WoW even separated the DoTs from the summoner aspect of Warlock. It doesn't feel like a Summoner when your main contribution is upkeeping damage over times. I think a much more intelligent route would be to have the damage over time spells change depending on the class similar to have Everquest did it. A Necromancer would summon an undead pet and use damage over time spells, however a Conjurer would summon elements and use raw element nukes that each do a different effect based on the element and an Enchanter could have support/debilitation spells and summon something like a construct or mirages. This would make each individual summoner feel unique from another, rather than just different aesthetics of pets that all upkeep Dots.
In terms of the pets themselves, the video mentioned the damage pet requires positionals to output damage. I can tell you right now these is going to be tedious. Anything that requires you to position a CPU properly is not going to be a fun mechanic. Even if the pet itself was programmed to attack from behind then its a mechanic that doesn't do anything. If you want to enhance the damage of the pet by doing something unique then it should fall on the player to do it, working with CPUs is not fun. Things that come with the summoner kit that enhance the pet when they work together, like Lord of the Rings online would have mechanics that caused the pet to behave a specific way depending on the spell the Loremaster used.
Truth be told, the single pet identity of summoner is not unique and doesn't stand out. If you really want to create a memorable system for Summoner I would suggest taking notes from Age of Conan, the Necromancer in that game had one of the most iconic pet systems to date. You would be given 9 pet points and you had a large list of pets you can summon, all of them were useful. If the pet was weaker they would be one pet point, if they were strong they could be 7 or 8 pet points. You could summon your combination of archers, melee, mages, tanks, goliaths, explosive pets or whatever your heart desired up to 9 summoning points. This let people control an army or have one giant pet. There were also mechanics to sacrifice pet points to enhance the Necromancers power.
If that's not an option then my recommendation would be to look at Final Fantasy XI's Summoner. This game, despite its age, had the best single pet mechanic to date. The Summoner itself was only able to summon a pet and they fought by instructing the pet to use abilities. They would summon massive unique awesome creatures from a list of like 14 and each of them had like 20+ abilities divided into two categories, offensive and defensive. The Summoner could use one from each category. Each category had its own cooldown. This gave the Summoner huge diversity allowing them to buff, heal, damage, debuff, aoe, single target and all sorts of things and they still felt like Summoners. Then you can compare it to other iterations of pet classes in the same game. Like Beastmaster, who had a similar concept they could summon from a list of 50+ pets and each pet had between 1-4 abilities and they recharged on a charge system, each ability consumed xx charges based on the strength of the ability and you got one charge every so many seconds. The difference is the Beastmaster had to be close to their pet to fight with it and fight in combat with them for maximum value. Then you had something like the Puppetmaster, where they customized and summoned an Automaton but they could not directly control it, they could only influence its abilities and fought with it.
These are all the memorable summoner classes, making a generic damage over time class with summon single pet class is not going to be memorable. Aim for the clouds.
Which vessel stood out most to you - Guardian, Hunter, or Mystic?
Due to pre-existing standards, and her being a 'True Summoner' and a multi-summoner who changes according to the situation, none of them stood out. They were neither outstanding visually nor particularly interesting mechanically to a veteran Summoner from FF11.
My input: Keep going, guys, we've seen concept art for more, and we know Augments will help, but there's not much to add here either, due to the eternal 'issue' of comparing a highly developed game to one in dev.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
Didn't look fun, didn't seem deep enough to possibly be confusing.
My input: I'm guessing this question is for MMO/Summoner newbies moreso than veteran Summoners so /pass.
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
Kinda early to be asking this question, isn't it?
My input: Define 'doing'...?
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
If we're talking 'official' showcase, definitely not. That was a teaser. Also, putting the DoT and the Summoner class together gives an amateurish feeling, that 'We don't know what else to let this Archetype do' (hint, it's more summoning, like you said).
My input: This is a Tab Targeting/Early Dev 'problem' for someone who has been playing the fully-fleshed out version of what you're now starting on, for years. It's pretty obvious, I think, that 'Discount Garuda/Shiva' isn't going to be impressive or engaging. Also weren't y'all going to call the Summoner's resource 'Anima'? For what it's worth that is way better and less confusing.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
This is a hard question to answer because if the question is 'would you choose this Archetype out of all the options if playing Ashes of Creation' then for her it's an obvious yes. A Summoner is a Summoner in FF11, PoE, or BDO.
If the question is 'would you play Ashes of Creation if this was what you got to play' based only on what was shown (again mostly assuming Showcase since nothing can legitimately be seen in Content Creator Videos for now', the answer is 'absolutely not' because... why not just go play FF11 or even BDO and have more actual summoning?
My input: As with all such efforts, there's a long way to go to get to even what was 'pitched', but it's not like anyone is/should be expecting this to start out super strong. Please make it clear if the multi-summon thing has been diminished or scrapped though, since there would be no reason to assume that based on what was shown, the obvious assumption would be 'well it's Alpha, ofc that tier of function isn't in yet, we don't even have Augments'.
Closing Thoughts
She already has six separate builds in Throne and Liberty for her 'Summoner-Mage' that each has a clear parallel (to previous, longstanding 'Summons') and purpose and five of which explicitly feel like summoning, even without the 'hey here's a cool looking entity'. Please remember that for some people, gameplay depth is more important than 'having different shaped combat pets with one or two distinct abilities'. Pretty sure y'all know this already, and a Teaser isn't really a place to go into all that for an Archetype with as much depth as Summoner, but this one was still kinda bleh.
My Input: Remember that y'all sold this game as maybe someday having Hybrid Combat and that means you are up against...
At least a little bit. Is that 'fair'? Obviously not. But even for someone who can look past all the issues on both sides of that comparison, you're still falling short even knowing it's Alpha (unless Phase III is supposed to last 2 years from here in which case seems about right, carry on).
Guardian was the standout for me, as I'm big on solo play and handling things in my own time. It allowed me to much more safely engage high level and high star targetson my own without making them a cakewalk, and I was having fun in ways that I'd struggle to do so with any other archetype.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
It was very fun for me. I far prefer managing a pet's various antics over managing a rotation, so Summoner being light on rotation in favor of pet abilities holds great appeal, especially since rotations like that are actually pretty hard for me to follow due to my disabilities. Actually, I'd say that's the biggest thing; Summoner is the archetype that's easiest for me to engage with, because I struggle to do so with the others as I need to be on the ball constantly both with my rotation, my positioning, and my evasion. Summoner reduces the overhead down to positioning and evasion. That's very good for disabled gamers like myself.
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
For the Guardian and Mystic, yes, I could always tell what they were trying to do and how effective they were at it. The Hunter, meanwhile, had so little visual variation that it kind of lost me when it'd use eviscerate; it was never obvious what it was doing. That said, I didn't play hunter at range.
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
Well, leaving aside that I've been waiting for Summoner for half a decade at this point, probably the Spirit Guardian proceeding to turn a trio of bandits that had attacked me on horseback into pancakes with a triple stomp. That was a damn good feeling.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
I absolutely will. None of the other archetypes have felt as right as Summoner did to me; it's simpler without being braindead, it supports my style of solo play, and I'm deeply encouraged by where it's gone as a design.
Which vessel stood out most to you - Guardian, Hunter, or Mystic?
I like the Mystic most, as I've always had a soft spot for the otherworldly but recognisably feminine.
The hunter looks good as well, with its sort of... "sharp gargoyle" look, at lack of a better descriptor.
I don't dislike the Guardian, but it feels like the most generic of the three.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
While the showcase is of course quite surface level, it appears to be a playstyle I'm familiar with and much enjoy from other MMOs, and just like in those cases, I imagine that it will be a hit-or-miss archetype with players, as pet and debuff management tend to be polarising, though I personally don't see that as a problem.
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
What is referred to as their "Key Ability" in the showcase looks clear enough visually in the case of the Guardian and the Mystic, but in my opinion, the Hunter's key ability, "Eviscerate", looks quite plain and could be mistaken for an auto attack.
In the combat footage after the Mystic showcase, the animation that I presume to be the Guardian's auto attack looks more like an awkward nudge or a glitchy attempt at taking a step forward, than an actual attack, in my opinion.
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
Based only on vibes and class fantasy, the Summoner has been the archetype I've been the most interested in for years, and when the showcase began, I went in with a mix of dread and excitement. Luckily, I came out the other end very much excited for the future of this archetype, as pet management, debuffs, support, and utility are among my favourite things I'm looking for when playing a character in a multiplayer setting.
I think the part that resonated with me the most, was at the end when Margaret emphasises the flexibility and utility of the Summoner.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
Absolutely! I'd especially love it if the eventual racial infusions and the like will allow me to play as a Py'Rai Summoner, with a Mystic styles as some kind of nymph, dryad, or fairy. Regardless, I feel like my excitement for the long awaited showcase of the Summoner has been rewarded.
There's much about the summoner that works and I still intend on maining one when it drops into the P3 realms. Visually it has some outstanding animations and the core identity of the class is present, but it's buried beneath a little too much separation between the summoner and the pet, leaving skill choices unimpactful in their current form.
I would like a little more time to challenge some of my own thoughts here, and also to delve deeper into aspects I didn't get a chance to, but for now, this is where I feel things sit.
Visuals
Spell Effects
There are spell effects that just work, and they look outstanding. Void is one of the nicest in the game, for example. Hex, however, could use some lasting visual presence that persists for the duration of the spell. This would help the summoner feel as though they are setting up ailments that persist and meaningfully affect their target (and spread like wildfire, with the right skills used).
Casting
The summoner's cast animations for some spells feel a bit too much like a mage throwing an obliterating spell rather than a delicate hand weaving casts that befits a Summoner's very different school of magic.
Targeting
The indicator that shows where spells will be cast on the ground could use more visual clarity, though this is also a form of feedback for these types of spells across all archetypes.
Skill Tree
Variance
The skill tree doesn't feel like it provides any real choice nodes - "this or that" options - and instead seems more about just picking up whatever, with no overarching tapestry to weave, instead just some minor and fairly surface level synergies. More options that funnel towards a specific playstyle would be an excellent addition to allow better expression of play. This seems to have progressed with each new archetype, but with Summoner it does feel like it has stalled somwhat.
Playstyle
Pets
The pets don't really feel connected to the summoner in a meaningful way. Sure, there's some abilities which require pet placement, siphon health or mana (I'll come back to this in a bit), or erupt from the pet itself, but that connected necessity is missing. (This flows into the next point on the list "Skills", and probably the longest point I have to make.) The pets have their own abilities, but this isn't quite enough to differentiate how the summoner should feel when specialising in each one. This specialisation isn't really much of a thing but instead of pushing the true hybrid narrative that this lack of specialisation may bring, it instead feels hollow, and a little like the pet isn't really woven into the summoner's identity at all.
My one caveat here is that there can and should absolutely be an option for Summoner to double down on reducing their pet effectiveness and pumping more into their own output, but this should be a choice the player has to make when building out their skill tree
Skills
The summoner's skills are sometimes fantastic but also often feel disconnected from each other and the pet itself. The interplay between spells is limited, and the spells don't really change at all regardless of which pet you have. It would feel more impactful if: some core skills work differently depending on the summoned pet, influencing them and the target of said skill AND we were given options to specialise these skills to be more potent when using a particular pet. This would still allow hybridisation to a limited extent, but help channel the summoner towards a specific role within their own options (DPS/Tank, DPS/healer, DPS)
Siphon health or mana should be channeled too, allowing granularity on how much you siphon (up to a point) rather than a flat figure and a quick cast time. (Also, a little more oomph to the feeling of sucking out something from the vessel with animation changes would really go a long way here.
The skills themselves don't, on the whole, feel as impactful or as nuanced as many of the other classes' skills, but I suspect synergies may arise and change as development revisits the archetypes in a future milestone. It feels like the core identity of the summoner is to weave out DoTs then, assuming the symphony has been conducted well, unleash a burst of damage. It is almost there, and a little tinkering to allow this level of skill expression would be excellent. Not dissimilar to a mage weaving combos right to provide maximum effectiveness at what they're trying to do, but manifested in a much different playstyle.
I should add here, there's discussion that more damage should be loaded onto the pet and in doing so this should weaken the summoner. I disagree, I think the Summoner's effectiveness should be intertwined with the pet they have out AND the choices they made within their skill tree. They should be effective at damage and it should be augmented by the pet choice, pushing them towards a specialised style.
(I recognise other archetypes also could use a pass, this isn't a zero sum piece of feedback)
Overall, Summoner is excellent in concept, much of it feels like it has the right ingredients, it just needs some alterations to the recipe to bake a much tighter core design and help provide choice to the archetype. This isn't unique to the summoner, but it definitely does need some tinkering to have it land right in its much deserved eighth archetype spot.
Mystic, because it has a dumptruck. And the fact it looks suspiciously like a Flame Atronach. It's a fire design, so I'm not going to complain.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
It looks good. I've always enjoyed pet/summoner classes in MMO's, but rarely do I see it done right. This looks promising. I expect secondary archetypes is where it'll really pop off. I want a summoner where the summons are the point, not an accessory or pet. At least at base. Secondary archetypes can play around with the relative power balance between you and your summons.
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
Looked clear to me. The summons having completely different shape language helps a lot. Blocky = Defense, Sharp = Damage, Round = Healing. You should stick with this approach with new summons going forward.
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
Well, given that I want to main summoner, I guess the whole lot did. But the icing on the cake was the fact that you can heal/restore MP from drawing it from your summon. That is pretty clever, and I love that kind of self sustain.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
Yes, I intend to main the summoner. Ideally summoner/rogue. I'd like to have just a pinch of stealth in my kit, and loom around the shadows. I basically want to play a vampire, or something thematically close to it. I also just like the idea of being versatile.
Honestly I loved all 3. This is one of the things I loved most about the initial implementation is that all 3 are present as options, meaning the summoner will be able to adapt their playstyle based on group composition, in much the way that the bard can. I love, love, love this, please do NOT change this, this is absolutely one of the key success criteria for me.
I really liked the way the tree allows picking one right at the bottom, a second halfway up and the third at the top too. This means that you can eventually have access to all 3 without doing a respec, meaning your ability to swap between the three is faster, but you can still do it at lower levels, it just takes more time. This is a really clever design.
I like the initial art for all 3, I know they're not polished or maybe even finished being refined yet, but the visual appeal of all 3 was there for me even at this early stage. I don't think they need material changes at all, just tweaks & polishing.
Sound design needs more work, the guardian walking sound was a bit wierd, and a bunch of the others is obviously not there or not finished yet, and that's fine at this stage. But yes, this would be an area of focus.
The pet AI was ok, but seemed like it still has a fair way to go so hopefully that's something planned for a bunch more work on. Key improvements needed were movement (it needs to be able to follow & keep up better and not get so lost on terrain) and choosing actions to do in combat (didn't seem to be choosing abilities very well, guardian didn't seem to taunt unless I told it to, mystic wasn't healing me if it wasn't in combat even when I was low health, hunter didn't seem to be able to position behind when in melee mode).
All of that said, even at this early stage, all 3 pets seemed able to perform their role and I can 100% see myself using all 3 at different times in different party compositions, and there wasn't any of them that didn't appeal to me. Again, I loved all 3 of them.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
HELL YES IT WAS FUN !!
I am so hyped and excited to play this class, I will probably switch to it as soon as it's available on live and it will be my new main. I love my bard, bards are awesome, and you guys knocked it out of the park with the bard, it is the best bard I've ever played in any MMO already, and it's not a patch on what I think and see that the summoner will be.
The pets+dots archetype is my favourite and I play it in every MMO it is available for, I mained a warlock in Wow for a decade, Scholar/Summoner in FFXIV for years, Blue Loremaster in LOTRO, Necromancer in GW2, etc. It is hands-down the most fun playstyle to play for me, so I'm so there for it here in this game too!
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
Most of the time, yes, occasionally no. If possible, I would like to see a separate health & mana bar for the pet rather than having to use my defensive target for it, and if that could also show it's cast bar, that would help. Also, I know some ability animations are yet to come, so that will also help. But for the most parts, I could see what it was doing (and also when it wasn't doing anything).
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
All of it ? LOL ! I am unapologetically an unashamed fanboi of the Summoner already and just wanted to keep playing it on live asap.
I love the Spirit Shred DOT and the way it combod with Mortal Blast to spread it around, or use the AoE version to apply it directly. I loved the way Hex didn't initially create aggro (and I hope this was intentional and stays that way?) so I could immediately start casting to tick down it's timer and when it detonated it felt really good to see the mobs health chunk down and then start it all again. Disintegrate really is all that, feels really good to use.
The combos with different abilities were nice, if anything I would ask for just one or two more DOTs to stack. Maybe one that also applies a different type of debuff, and/or maybe one that is like a health or mana drain or amplifies other damage, or something ?
The fact that it has several longer CD silences compared to some other classes just having a single one on a short CD is actually nice, provides some differentiation and having to think & respond fast to which one to use.
The cast times on the summons spells felt about right, long enough that you can't take it lightly and can't do it if you're really under fire, but short enough that if you needed to change in the middle of combat, you might be able to pull it off ... providing someone can keep the heat off you long enough, I liked that a lot.
I liked how the Siphon health and mana spells were DD style but the heal pet was a HOT style, meant you had to make in-the-moment tactical choices about when and how much to use them balancing factors like how much the pet needed, how much you needed, how much dmg was incoming on it vs you, etc. A really nice mini-game there.
Having mained a bard in phase 3, I'm acutely aware of the importance of contributing mana to the party. Not wanting to step on the bards toes here, but even the cleric can help a little in this regard with their enchant weapon on a single target. And the summoner shares some support aspects with both of those. So I wonder if there is room in the design space for the mystic pet to have a small AoE mana regen ability ? I think that would really help the party appeal for having a summoner.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
ZOMG, shut up and take my money already LOL ! Yes, yes, yes. I intend to play the summoner a LOT and even if what we've seen is remotely like what it ends up, I would imagine I will be maining a summoner.
I've said this in my survey, I said it in /global in-game, and I'll repeat it here, please pass on to the team that they've done a brilliant job on this, really really good work, the vision of the class is clear, and I freaking love it, and to keep on going in this direction. You've got this !
I do hope that various classes from the Summoner archetype will allow for multiple pets at a time.
Personally, I've always been a "single huge and dangerous pet" kind of person, but I'm always happy when everybody is catered to, and if that remains the plan, it'll work out real well.
Positives:
i like the dot explosion playstyle.
Some interesting utility skills
pet roles feel distinctive.
General:
the summoned pet doesnt have enough influence on playstyle.
Id like to see enhanced dmg with the hunter pet. Maybe some single target spell turns aoe.
Guradian pet could have demoralize on dimensional bolt as example.
Mystic should weave their healing into our skill usage. The current version has less healing potential than a bard and thats a big issue imo! Example: mortal blast deals half dmg but heals friendlies in the area for X. Mass affliction does half dmg but afflicts fiendlies with a hot for X.
Tldr dive deeper in the pet choice.
Skilltree: currently we can have all active skills and only miss like 4 passives. In general for all archetypes. Make choice matter!
For summoner id like to see more passives or actives to specialize on a specific pet.
Dmg is too high. That doesnt go for all abilities but some. Spirit shred feels a bit low. Maybe mortal blast explosion is a little too high. Essence eruption is too high for sure. The healing pet shouldnt have a high amg aoe spammable.
Some casttimes felt too long. Specifically spirit shred a bit, void more and mass affliction a bit. It feels very weird to not be able to move at all while summoning the pet. Just make me real slow while doing it. The game is way to fast for this.
Personal:
action mode viability. With bard you showed already that some form of smart casting is a thing. Pets auto function feel the same. Id like some customizability for it. It should always be noticably worse than manually doing things but if i can have some basic automatism plus using my pet when its needed would make it better.
There is still no option to properly target friendlies and enemies at the same time. Example: if i look at a tank and enemy npc. I click the heal for the tank and then a dmg spell for the enemy i still often get invalid target unless i tab the whole time. And you cant tab well between friendlies so your stuck to point and click adventure playstyle.
The cursor also differs real slow between different entities.
Tldr. In General: work on your action mode!
Specific:
phase out immunity is weird. I would like to see it a mini teleport using similar visuals as void and the mechanic from „go to location“ as a 15m teleport. Dont make the archetype real mobile.
Amplify should also change skills for the guardian and hunter pet.
Enervating shear should give the mana to you, not your pet. Ive never seen my pet struggle with mana. Using shear and then syphon vessel is way too clunky.
Essence ward should apply weakened and dazed. But only if you lower the dmg as said above.
Supression ray didnt work at all. Tooltip doesnt say how long the channel is.
Soul flare probably deals a little too much dmg for the utility it gives.
Taunt from Guardian should debuff the enemy to give it some use in pvp.
Pets need to be able to move slowly while casting!
Overall:
interesting first iteration. If you go more in the symbiotic playstyle with the pet it will be a good identity archetype.
I didnt test pvp so all of this is based on pve and assumtions.
Summoner feedback second ptr test/siege:
Which vessel stood out most to you - Guardian, Hunter, or Mystic?
for pve guardian has the most defined and fullfilled role.
hunter is fine.
mystic is lacking heal diversity. i imagined summoner healer to be better than bard at least. it currently isnt.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
its okay
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
no. should be better when they have their own nameplate and we see their castbar.
also cant differentiate between your summon and others. same issue as with aoes not showing if friendly or enemy etc.
reaction time on vessels is really slow.
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
i like the hex, spirit shred, mortal blast flow. its like a base rotation and you add more stuff based on the situation.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
summoner feels too slow for how fast the game is being played. the pets move too slow. most casts, specifically mass infliction, are to slow to hit moving targets.
talking mostly from a pvp standpoint now.
hard to judge the full kit if all the teleportation and the silence dont work yet.
so far it didnt feel like the pets were having much impact.
ttk even in common ilvl 29 gear is so low that dots cant do much work. everyone just dies too quick for how the summoner plays.
void is really impactful and the cast time is okay for the results it gives.
phase out is also really strong.
other obsevations:
we have minotaur summoners on live. they have wolf and raven summons. i expected summoner to also get some temporary summons that stay for idk 15s are fast and follow a specific purpose. so thats what id like to see added.
should be a + option where you choose one only.
examples for that based on the 3 roles could be:
mystic pet aoe. summons a little fairy that moves to target/ or location and does aoe hot for 5s
hunter pet. summons 3 bats that pursue a target and deal aoe dmg around it for 10s
guardian pet. summon rocklings for 10s that move to up to 6 enemy targets hit them once for x dmg and taunt them for the guardian while applying staggered.
summon abilities should share same keybinds depending on the summon active.
that game already has a flowstate. i think its important to make all archetypes fall in this category to keep them relevant but not overpowered. keeping the defined archetypes while doing this isnt easy but i think you will get it done
i hope we soon have the skilltree reworks that imo fall under the same approach of making the game come together.
summoning a smile onto your face
Which vessel stood out most to you - Guardian, Hunter, or Mystic?
A: Guardian - I like the appearance of the pet, but its functionality was poor in pve. Moves too slowly to mobs. The Guardian did not take or hold mob aggro adequately. My summoner constantly would pull aggro away from the Guardian with no effort. The pets I found have no aggro table for mobs so mobs ignore them. When using Automated pet ability cast and/or manual control I couldn't get the Guardian pet to reliably hold aggro vs a 2* mob up the stairs of the goblin area North-East of Lionhold. The mob would run past my Guardian and attack my character. When trying to use Taunt ability that was available to cast it would either not work or would and I would almost immediately pull aggro away.
It seems like the Summoner character is possibly accumulating more aggro hate than the Guardian can scale with. Static character mob aggro by being in vicinity, attack/heal aggro, and possibly adding the pets damage onto the Summoner's aggro table scaling?
The pet ability icons aren't properly greying out when used so its hard to identify when the skills are used when on AUTO pet ability cast mode, OR when you manually select them they also don't grey out as going on cool down. If the Guardian pet can't take and hold aggro its useless. The pets seem to take too long to cast their abilities and creates a very slow paced combat style having to wait for the pets to take an action. Please speed them up so the combat style is fluid and quick, not stuck in traction waiting for the pet to do their job when commanded.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
A: TBD with disabled or non functional abilities and pet abilities hidden on the Skill Book, it wasn't clear. Way too much visual clutter with the myriad of pet movement commands.
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
A: Often times no. They are very slow to take action as they have very limited functions and have long wait times between doing said functions. Also the Key bind ability icons aren't properly going on CD visually on hot bar so you can't tell wth is going on. Also, some abilities like TAUNT may have a visual but it was not apparent to me what it was. If its a tiny icon on the nameplate (I can't read in pt 6 font, please enlarge these icons as visually they're useless. Taunt needs a visual on the Summoned Pet Guardian to show its Taunting or on the mobs to show when they are taunted.
For all of the pets the SIC action felt poorly designed. We shouldn't have to hit this every time in combat and for each subsequent mob in group combat for our pets to take action. They need to continue the combat flow until all threats are dead, not force instruction after each subsequent target is defeated to attack again.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
A: I was bummed that all of the pets were poor at taking and holding mob aggro even when letting them attack 2-3x first and/or casting their ability on Auto. My Summoner would immediately pull the mob aggro away once I attacked or used my first ability cast. This didn't feel like a Summoner class, I felt like a DoT mage that will need to play as the tank/sponge for my pet to dps or kite circles as a Summoner styled Mage while the pet lobs their attacks. In melee mode the pets are too slow and easily kited. Will not be good in pvp.
Strange design. I wasn't expecting to have to tank everything for my pets.
I also thought it was strange to force Summoner down one playstyle path for its kit rather than have options as to what type of Summoner playstyle path players would prefer. Its like a DoT/Mage Warlock enthusiast designed the Summoner class. But not all Summoner's in MMO's are DoT/Mage based. But in Ashes that playstyle will be forced. It feels less like a Pet/Summoner class and more like a DoT/Mage class. I don't mind DoT/Mage classes in general but that's not what I was looking for with Summoner. I feel like DoT/Mage should have been an archetype advancement option path for SOME SUMMONERS, not be the forced default ability tree for ALL SUMMONERS.
I'd prefer different skill tree paths. DoT/Mage Summoner type and maybe one that offers more of a pet based buff and additional pet abilities path where the Summoner is weaker and the Pet is amplified and boosted. Then let me choose the Rogue archetype advancement to be a stealth Summoner w/Grapple and launch my OP pets at people from the shadows. Your class attempt feels too linear and forced as one playstyle (DoT/Mage w/a support pet).
I have to say that I'm generally happy with the initial look of the class. I enjoyed all the pets even though I have my favorites. But I do agree with some other comments that I hope there is a mixture of playstyles: being able to summon many smaller/weaker pets vs one stronger one. Outside of that, I think my biggest piece of feedback is the lack of personality missing from the creatures. It's probably unfair to bring up something like FFXIV's summoner class with the long storied history of that franchise but it's hard to ignore. And even I think they don't do it as well as they could which why I've been so excited about Ashes. The best thing about the summoner class power fantasy is summoning a being from another world and getting to not only have their power at your disposal but getting to commune with them. Some connection to a mythical beast or legendary creature from current lore or in game lore would go so far for making a Summoner player care about their summon or pet and focus on their rapport. That's the difference to me between a Summoner's summoning a Bahamut or Carbuncle and a Necromancer, calling a nameless random fire or earth golem.
Finally, I hope that there is some unique opportunity for the summoner to interact with their pet outside of combat or have some little moments of play or feeding them. I'm not asking for Pokemon but again it would add more to the fantasy.
Which vessel stood out most to you - Guardian, Hunter, or Mystic? Guardin was my favorite closesly followed by the Mystic. I like their design, movement and playstyle.
Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow? I think the gameplay was pretty easy to follow and definitely looked fun if maybe a bit repetitive.
Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat? It was clear.
Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner? Every ability made me want to try the summoner class.
Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype? I will absolutely play this class!
Guardian was most effective as I started out. The hunter a close second the mystic was fairly useless. This is limited to the early leveling process.
[*] Did the Summoner’s gameplay look fun or confusing to follow?
It was fun, it felt like a warlock.
[*] Was it clear what the vessels were doing during combat?
NO. Their ability icons didn't have countdown timers, the mana and health didn't show well. It was hard to know the real time status of the summon. Hot keys are need for it's commands, clicking commands is clunky.
[*] Did any ability or moment make you want to try the Summoner?
Not really, but there hasn't been enough time to really test it and see what it can do.
[*] Based on what you saw, would you play this archetype?
Maybe. I wasn't considering it before. I don't normally play summoners, but you paired it with dots, so it's really a warlock, so in that case maybe. It all depends on how the secondary classes play out.
I can see summoner being versatile in leveling in small groups and solo, probably the most soloable class so far. I think they'll turn into pure dps rules later, or possibly off heals. It would be interesting if the Guardian could become strong enough to off tank. Obviously they shouldn't be able to do all three whenever.